CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #21

[AndrewM71]

Both of those companies are under the same umbrella of the Harlo group of companies. I can pull up old posts for reference if needed.

I know, but they are separate entities and Capital existed long before any involvement from JS/AP and it was the bidder for the Sens.

 

[MrsHenryAbra]

Here you see the view of the tennis court from the second floor of 50 Old Colony Road. To the left, is the pathway KD believes the NW took that night. Side door entrance.

I think this is a key. It goes against the NW ambushing HS from outside as he likely would have gained entry.

Only consideration is the alarm. But recall that the real estate agents told TPS they were not available for one tour so the other agent showed the house alone. From the warrant documents, we know the real estate agents thought some of the people being shown the house were curious. One in particular did not reach out, despite all the others providing cards. In addition, we know one tour was virtual via facetime and the person on the call did not show their face and spoke only through text.

Only TPS knows the timeline of travel. They know the precise moment that HS and BS pulled in. They also know when NW goes dark near the estate.

HS attack specifics are less well known. BS easier to see what happened. He was second, with murder team definitely on the inside by then.

imo, speculation

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, the last-minute Green Storage party JS invited BS to was to be held on December 18th, which was when HS was set to fly to Miami. BS was set to have lunch or dinner with JS on the 24th, and that was also the day BS was set to fly to Miami.

Sorry, haven't been able to keep up for awhile... I don't remember knowing about the dinner on the 24th.. is there a link to that info?

 

[dotr]

Sorry, haven't been able to keep up for awhile... I don't remember knowing about the dinner on the 24th.. is there a link to that info?

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

''Dec 13, 2022 — According to Jonathon's husband Fred, they had also invited Barry to a Christmas dinner at their house north of Toronto on Dec. 24''

 

[MrsHenryAbra]

KD states the police documents do not explain BS saying to BK that he owed $1B.

He owed $580M to a big pharma company, we know that.

Did he have a deal with HS? If he lost this one, she gets paid?

That would total $1B.

As an aside, listening to KD podcast "Succession" you get more of a sense of the conflict between JS and BS re: money and succession. That BS ended an email with FD movie trailer, yeah - intense.

imo, speculation

 

[sandy_80]

Here you see the view of the tennis court from the second floor of 50 Old Colony Road. To the left, is the pathway KD believes the NW took that night. Side door entrance.

I think this is a key. It goes against the NW ambushing HS from outside as he likely would have gained entry.

Only consideration is the alarm. But recall that the real estate agents told TPS they were not available for one tour so the other agent showed the house alone. From the warrant documents, we know the real estate agents thought some of the people being shown the house were curious. One in particular did not reach out, despite all the others providing cards. In addition, we know one tour was virtual via facetime and the person on the call did not show their face and spoke only through text.

Only TPS knows the timeline of travel. They know the precise moment that HS and BS pulled in. They also know when NW goes dark near the estate.

HS attack specifics are less well known. BS easier to see what happened. He was second, with murder team definitely on the inside by then.
View attachment 428790

imo, speculation

i dont understand the very negligent security matters with this family
so the house tour might have included suspicious parties ! which you are implying might have been used by the offenders

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I know, but they are separate entities and Capital existed long before any involvement from JS/AP and it was the bidder for the Sens.

I understand from reading KD that JS, AP & JT founded Harlo in the fall of 2017. It then expanded into different a few different companies under the Harlo umbrella. If Harlo Capital existed prior to the fall of 2017 I’m not aware of that, do you possibly have a link?

Link to older post about Harlo origins. (And if you put ‘Harlo’ in the WS search bar you’ll likely find more posts with screenshots and links.)

CANADA - Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

I’ve never heard of the actual purchase price or Barry finding out what it was, do you possibly have a link? I will try and find it.

www.websleuths.com

 

[WINDSOR]

Shaft them on a deal and you never know what could happen…..

They have to learn to make offers, 'people cannot refuse'

 

[AndrewM71]

I understand from reading KD that JS, AP & JT founded Harlo in the fall of 2017. It then expanded into different a few different companies under the Harlo umbrella. If Harlo Capital existed prior to the fall of 2017 I’m not aware of that, do you possibly have a link?

Link to older post about Harlo origins. (And if you put ‘Harlo’ in the WS search bar you’ll likely find more posts with screenshots and links.)

CANADA - Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

I’ve never heard of the actual purchase price or Barry finding out what it was, do you possibly have a link? I will try and find it.

www.websleuths.com

I think that the reference to Harlo Capital by KD should be HF. He’s conflated them before.

Anyway, as you can see from your own link I’ve posted on this before. I don’t believe that the Kimels needed money or expertise from pre-inheritance and unaccomplished JS to set up their business. I also think JS has overstated their contribution, which I suspect is much more passive than JS suggests.

 

[dotr]

Wondering if HS and MS first noticed the potential ''investment opportunity of the property so close to H's favorite bakery and lawyer's office?
Still wondering if HS stopped to eat, pick up dinner, or grab a snack from a bakery after the meeting with the architects at Apotex, prior to going to the mall? , imo, speculation.

rbbm.

Honey Sherman had a will she updated shortly before billionaire couple slain, confidant reveals

Close confidant of Honey Sherman told police the billionaire philanthropist spoke of making changes to her will in the weeks before the murders.

www.thestar.com

''Roughly a week after the Nov. 13, 2017, birth of the Sherman couple’s third grandchild, Honey told one of her confidants she had just that day “updated” her will at a lawyer’s office.

“Honey and I were talking and she said meet me at Yonge and St. Clair Avenue. She said she was just coming from her lawyer’s office and she had just updated her will. She had done some amendments,” the confidant told the Star. “Honey said she wanted me to first go with her to Loblaws to get those frozen croissants from Ace Bakery that she liked, then we would go to her home.”

Completed Projects

harlocapital.com

''Harlo Capital and partners identified an attractive investment opportunity and secured three parcels of land totaling ~0.37 acres, and improved with a 16,400-sf office building. The property is located in midtown Toronto in close proximity to the Yonge Street and St Clair Avenue intersection. The site is 20 meters from the St Clair subway station, in a revitalized office submarket, and walking distance from Rosedale, making it an attractive location for future homeowners. Upon successfully obtaining land use approvals to develop a 35-storey condominium, the partnership sold the property to a prominent residential developer in May 2022.''

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Wondering if HS and MS first noticed the potential ''investment opportunity of the property so close to H's favorite bakery and lawyer's office?
Still wondering if HS stopped to eat, pick up dinner, or grab a snack from a bakery after the meeting with the architects at Apotex, prior to going to the mall? , imo, speculation.

rbbm.

Honey Sherman had a will she updated shortly before billionaire couple slain, confidant reveals

Close confidant of Honey Sherman told police the billionaire philanthropist spoke of making changes to her will in the weeks before the murders.

www.thestar.com

''Roughly a week after the Nov. 13, 2017, birth of the Sherman couple’s third grandchild, Honey told one of her confidants she had just that day “updated” her will at a lawyer’s office.

“Honey and I were talking and she said meet me at Yonge and St. Clair Avenue. She said she was just coming from her lawyer’s office and she had just updated her will. She had done some amendments,” the confidant told the Star. “Honey said she wanted me to first go with her to Loblaws to get those frozen croissants from Ace Bakery that she liked, then we would go to her home.”

Completed Projects

harlocapital.com

''Harlo Capital and partners identified an attractive investment opportunity and secured three parcels of land totaling ~0.37 acres, and improved with a 16,400-sf office building. The property is located in midtown Toronto in close proximity to the Yonge Street and St Clair Avenue intersection. The site is 20 meters from the St Clair subway station, in a revitalized office submarket, and walking distance from Rosedale, making it an attractive location for future homeowners. Upon successfully obtaining land use approvals to develop a 35-storey condominium, the partnership sold the property to a prominent residential developer in May 2022.''

KD said they have a few big development deals in the city, but I wasn’t aware of that. ETA: do you think it’s possible JS was in anyway involved with HS’s real estate investments or she was with his?(Harlo, maybe?)

When I first heard about Harlo I started to follow it and I think it’s an important facet of the case.

JS’s inviting BS on the 14th to the Green Storage Christmas party on the 18th also makes little sense to me. BS didn’t seem to like AP and he seemed upset about the loan repayment, maybe address that first? And GS seems to have few employees.
And why no mention of Harlo? That would make a more interesting party, imo. BS had development investments. He’d have something in common with that group, imo.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I think that the reference to Harlo Capital by KD should be HF. He’s conflated them before.

Anyway, as you can see from your own link I’ve posted on this before. I don’t believe that the Kimels needed money or expertise from pre-inheritance and unaccomplished JS to set up their business. I also think JS has overstated their contribution, which I suspect is much more passive than JS suggests.

It’s my view only, but with JS’s inheritance Harlo became a major player in Toronto development projects. If BS had lived, I don’t think that would be the case, he was reigning in his financing and wanted JS to seek funding from the major banks. I don’t see how those mortgages and Harlo’s growth could coexist with JS and AP onboard. They’d be in debt on paper. (I’m trying to understand it, not claiming to be an expert.)

 

[FPoulet]

KD said they have a few big development deals in the city, but I wasn’t aware of that. ETA: do you think it’s possible JS was in anyway involved with HS’s real estate investments or she was with his?(Harlo, maybe?)

When I first heard about Harlo I started to follow it and I think it’s an important facet of the case.

JS’s inviting BS on the 14th to the Green Storage Christmas party on the 18th also makes little sense to me. BS didn’t seem to like AP and he seemed upset about the loan repayment, maybe address that first? And GS seems to have few employees.
And why no mention of Harlo? That would make a more interesting party, imo. BS had development investments. He’d have something in common with that group, imo.

Possibly the Green Storage Christmas party invitation was an effort to get Barry all in on the business given the calls for mortgages— or an effort to make it appear that Barry was all in on the business. MOO.

 

[FPoulet]

It’s my view only, but with JS’s inheritance Harlo became a major player in Toronto development projects. If BS had lived, I don’t think that would be the case, he was reigning in his financing and wanted JS to seek funding from the major banks. I don’t see how those mortgages and Harlo’s growth could coexist with JS and AP onboard. They’d be in debt on paper. (I’m trying to understand it, not claiming to be an expert.)

Based on the Kimel family’s wealth and sophistication, I don’t think JS has changed the trajectory of Harlo. As far as we know, he’s not involved with Harlo Capital at all. He’s not on the website or identified openly anywhere as being affiliated, is he? I don’t know the scope or scale of Harlo Financial or the extent of its links (if any) to Harlo Capital. But I’m inclined this is more like JS wanting to roll with the upper echelon now that he has more independent wealth. MOO.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Possibly the Green Storage Christmas party invitation was an effort to get Barry all in on the business given the calls for mortgages— or an effort to make it appear that Barry was all in on the business. MOO.

rbbm
That didn’t occur to me. That makes sense.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Based on the Kimel family’s wealth and sophistication, I don’t think JS has changed the trajectory of Harlo. As far as we know, he’s not involved with Harlo Capital at all. He’s not on the website or identified openly anywhere as being affiliated, is he? I don’t know the scope or scale of Harlo Financial or the extent of its links (if any) to Harlo Capital. But I’m inclined this is more like JS wanting to roll with the upper echelon now that he has more independent wealth. MOO.

KD mentioned it in his podcast that JS was now currently focused on Harlo, and JS previously talked with KD about founding Harlo. I haven’t looked recently, but JS also isn’t mentioned on the GS leadership pages either, and we know he founded it with AP.

I could map out the leadership screenshots, quotes and news stories about Harlo, but I may be straying off-course. I don’t know if it’s relevant to the story, I just sense that it is.

I tend to agree with your and @AndrewM71 ’s views on Harlo and you both have a better grasp of business matters than me.

 

[deugirtni]

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

''Dec 13, 2022 — According to Jonathon's husband Fred, they had also invited Barry to a Christmas dinner at their house north of Toronto on Dec. 24''

Thanks dotr, had totally missed that. I wonder what Fred's issue is, exactly?? From same linked article:

Fred later told police that it was often difficult for him to be at Sherman events and during dinners at Old Colony he would often go to the basement to “get away from people during family dinners.”

 

[dotr]

Thanks dotr, had totally missed that. I wonder what Fred's issue is, exactly?? From same linked article:

Fred later told police that it was often difficult for him to be at Sherman events and during dinners at Old Colony he would often go to the basement to “get away from people during family dinners.”

Maybe he was asked if he ever swam in the pool? speculation, imo.

 

[ollie2]

I've seen the warrant documents and ITOs. Interestingly, they make reference to the walking man walking on Old Colony Road. It could just be a typo. They may, however, have evidence of him on Old Colony. Here me out.

There is a small side street called Harrison, not annotated in the below map, but going east down Old Colony its the first left. There is nothing on that little street, at the end there is a brush but also a pavement walkway that comes out on the street behind, forest heights. I've confirmed with those in the neighborhood that that path has been there for years. The pavement is also clearly old and has an old drain jutting up at the entrance off Harrison. It was definitely there in 2017. From there its a straight shot down to Vyner. Vyner must have been used because if you walk it (I have), its completely isolated. Trees on both sides with no houses for a while. The bus stop I cite (#115) runs until 1030 pm and its at the next intersection after the last recorded video of NW on Bannatyne Drive. Recall, bus system holds video for 72 h only. The end point of that route is a subway station with lots of tentacles. They also only hold video for 72 h then scrub for privacy reasons.

View attachment 428539
This one shows the Harrison path if it was taken. Makes sense for the exit, why go through the back way again, risk interaction with neighbors etc., when you were planning on walking on the street anyways? Its a shorter distance to cover, especially with that uphill on Vyner to get to Bannatyne.
View attachment 428551These are screengrabs from the warrant files. Specifically, Yim's ITO#8 Appendix C - 2018. Multiple references are made to the person walking *on* Old Colony Road
View attachment 428548
View attachment 428549
We know TPS has been careless at times, but what to make of the direct reference to the NW *on* Old Colony Road multiple times in a warrant application to a Judge?

None of this would be contradicted by Det. Sergeant Price's comments at the press conference: "We were able to get images from nearby, on either side, kind of, and around the Sherman household and this individual walks into that area, does not continue to walk through but remains in that area that's not covered by video footage, and remains in there and then comes back out some time later, and that's how we've been able to narrow this individual's location down."

His commentary here is interesting. Why use the statement "walk through". He *does not* walk through initially, Price says. As if this was to be expected? Is this a tell? That they have him walking through and just don't confirm it directly? So entry through the back. Execute the Shermans. Then exit by walking right out onto Old Colony Road down a couple houses to Harrison then you're basically invisible until Bannatyne.

He goes on:
"Well its a fairly defined area."

imo, speculation

FWIW- Harrison Public school is on Harrison.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Thanks dotr, had totally missed that. I wonder what Fred's issue is, exactly?? From same linked article:

Fred later told police that it was often difficult for him to be at Sherman events and during dinners at Old Colony he would often go to the basement to “get away from people during family dinners.”

I’ll try to find his comment in the ITOs and see if we can make out the context.

I don’t remember who it was, but someone at the memorial gave a eulogy and said they didn’t like to go to the family dinners (parties?) that Honey gave, but he realized he just didn’t appreciate them and felt differently after they died. (It was a younger person that I didn’t recognize at the time.)