CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #21

[MrsHenryAbra]

FWIW- Harrison Public school is on Harrison.

OCR onward, there’s nothing, just that pavement path to Forest Heights, Vyner, and Bannatyne.

 

[MrsHenryAbra]

i dont understand the very negligent security matters with this family
so the house tour might have included suspicious parties ! which you are implying might have been used by the offenders

Of course that could be.

To understand the lack of security, you need to understand the man.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Maybe he was asked if he ever swam in the pool? speculation, imo.

Maybe they were all asked about how familiar they were with the basement, or how much time they spent there. I think they were all asked about whether HS wore shoes on the home and if so, which ones.

 

[MrsHenryAbra]

Maybe they were all asked about how familiar they were with the basement, or how much time they spent there. I think they were all asked about whether HS wore shoes on the home and if so, which ones.

Don’t forget her jacket. One key to how the attacks went down.

KD states he believes she wore one home, but wasn’t wearing it when found hanging and KD states his review of the photos don’t reveal the jacket either?

But where is the jacket then? Seems there is one rational explanation, relevant to KD’s little what happened at 50 OCR video on YouTube….

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Of course that could be.

To understand the lack of security, you need to understand the man.

But Honey regularly used the alarm system according to her assistant and the housekeeper that cleaned on Fridays. She saw it differently.

And there was a system in place they both likely had a say in installing, imo.

 

[dotr]

Don’t forget her jacket. One key to how the attacks went down.

KD states he believes she wore one home, but wasn’t wearing it when found hanging and KD states his review of the photos don’t reveal the jacket either?

But where is the jacket then? Seems there is one rational explanation, relevant to KD’s little what happened at 50 OCR video on YouTube….

This one?

Watch the video: What happened inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before they were murdered

The Toronto Star has come up with a likely scenario using clues provided by sources, photographs and floor plans from the home, as well as a timeline of events.

www.thespec.com

 

[MrsHenryAbra]

What to make of the fact that Det Sargeant Price took 6 whole months to go to JS estate to obtain his “files” related to the investigation?

Likely telling of TPS view of JS’s infos importance to the the case?

imo, speculation

 

[ollie2]

I've seen the warrant documents and ITOs. Interestingly, they make reference to the walking man walking on Old Colony Road. It could just be a typo. They may, however, have evidence of him on Old Colony. Here me out.

There is a small side street called Harrison, not annotated in the below map, but going east down Old Colony its the first left. There is nothing on that little street, at the end there is a brush but also a pavement walkway that comes out on the street behind, forest heights. I've confirmed with those in the neighborhood that that path has been there for years. The pavement is also clearly old and has an old drain jutting up at the entrance off Harrison. It was definitely there in 2017. From there its a straight shot down to Vyner. Vyner must have been used because if you walk it (I have), its completely isolated. Trees on both sides with no houses for a while. The bus stop I cite (#115) runs until 1030 pm and its at the next intersection after the last recorded video of NW on Bannatyne Drive. Recall, bus system holds video for 72 h only. The end point of that route is a subway station with lots of tentacles. They also only hold video for 72 h then scrub for privacy reasons.

View attachment 428539
This one shows the Harrison path if it was taken. Makes sense for the exit, why go through the back way again, risk interaction with neighbors etc., when you were planning on walking on the street anyways? Its a shorter distance to cover, especially with that uphill on Vyner to get to Bannatyne.
View attachment 428551These are screengrabs from the warrant files. Specifically, Yim's ITO#8 Appendix C - 2018. Multiple references are made to the person walking *on* Old Colony Road
View attachment 428548
View attachment 428549
We know TPS has been careless at times, but what to make of the direct reference to the NW *on* Old Colony Road multiple times in a warrant application to a Judge?

None of this would be contradicted by Det. Sergeant Price's comments at the press conference: "We were able to get images from nearby, on either side, kind of, and around the Sherman household and this individual walks into that area, does not continue to walk through but remains in that area that's not covered by video footage, and remains in there and then comes back out some time later, and that's how we've been able to narrow this individual's location down."

His commentary here is interesting. Why use the statement "walk through". He *does not* walk through initially, Price says. As if this was to be expected? Is this a tell? That they have him walking through and just don't confirm it directly? So entry through the back. Execute the Shermans. Then exit by walking right out onto Old Colony Road down a couple houses to Harrison then you're basically invisible until Bannatyne.

He goes on:
"Well its a fairly defined area."

imo, speculation

Having grown up in this area, Harrison leads to heathcote turning left (or right) Take left to Heathcoat to Banbury, left (North) to Beaverhall and turn right leads to Bannatyne which runs N and S (where the NW was seen) and south leads to leslie street. Did I misunderstand the above post as to "basically invisible until Bannatyne? Also, on the NE corner of Heathcote and Banbury is Windfields Junior High school were someone could weave through to Bannatyne via other streets.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Don’t forget her jacket. One key to how the attacks went down.

KD states he believes she wore one home, but wasn’t wearing it when found hanging and KD states his review of the photos don’t reveal the jacket either?

But where is the jacket then? Seems there is one rational explanation, relevant to KD’s little what happened at 50 OCR video on YouTube….

KD was asked about whether he saw her jacket in the crime scene photos (he saw photos of the kitchen area in addition to the pool.) He said he didn’t see it. There’s an old quote somewhere made by one of the housekeepers. She said HS had a habit of leaving her coat on the back of the kitchen chairs. So where or if the coat was found is a mystery atm.

 

[MrsHenryAbra]

But Honey regularly used the alarm system according to her assistant and the housekeeper that cleaned on Fridays. She saw it differently.

And there was a system in place they both likely had a day in installing, imo.

“If they’re going to get you theyre going to get you”

No cameras. Alarms, because they didn’t use them as one might, were useless and allowed a double murder and staging

Barry picked the doors, he also picked the (lack of) cameras

imo, speculation

 

[MrsHenryAbra]

Having grown up in this area, Harrison leads to heathcote turning left (or right) Take left to Heathcoat to Banbury, left (North) to Beaverhall and turn right leads to Bannatyne which runs N and S (where the NW was seen) and south leads to leslie street. Did I misunderstand the above post as to "basically invisible until Bannatyne? Also, on the NE corner of Heathcote and Banbury is Windfields Junior High school were someone could weave through to Bannatyne via other streets.

We are discussing not the entire length of Harrison. We are discussing OCR onto Harrison, aka on to a dead end by vehicle. But by foot there is a path “connecting” OCR and Forest Heights. From there it’s a straight shot to Vyner (limited camera coverage) then on to Bannatyne.

The discussion relates to the fact we have no evidence that they came and went exactly the same way. And we have evidence the police say in the warrant files the NW was “on” OCR multiple times, and was elsewhere.

imo, speculation

 

[MrsHenryAbra]

KD was asked about whether he saw her jacket in the crime scene photos (he saw photos of the kitchen area in addition to the pool.) He said he didn’t see it. There’s an old quote somewhere made by one of the housekeepers. She said HS had a habit of leaving her coat on the back of the kitchen chairs. So where or if the coat was found is a mystery atm.

What would it mean for the coat to not be out in the open?

Where do we typically store winter coats?

If she did come in and store it, the key is that she had time to come in and store it.

Then surprised from the hallway? Struggle? Etc etc?

imo, speculation

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Having grown up in this area, Harrison leads to heathcote turning left (or right) Take left to Heathcoat to Banbury, left (North) to Beaverhall and turn right leads to Bannatyne which runs N and S (where the NW was seen) and south leads to leslie street. Did I misunderstand the above post as to "basically invisible until Bannatyne? Also, on the NE corner of Heathcote and Banbury is Windfields Junior High school were someone could weave through to Bannatyne via other streets.

We need a local’s perspective!

I understand the Leslie/Sheppard area well because I worked there and I have some idea, but that’s worlds away from the Shermans’ neighbourhood and all the small details the WM must have known.

If you, or anyone, can give us insight that is helpful, imo.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

We are discussing not the entire length of Harrison. We are discussing OCR onto Harrison, aka on to a dead end by vehicle. But by foot there is a path “connecting” OCR and Forest Heights. From there it’s a straight shot to Vyner (limited camera coverage) then on to Bannatyne.

The discussion relates to the fact we have no evidence that they came and went exactly the same way. And we have evidence the police say in the warrant files the NW was “on” OCR multiple times, and was elsewhere.

imo, speculation

I can’t follow directions or picture it without it being mapped. Can you post one? If not I’ll try to, but I don’t know if google maps has the details you’re speaking of. I’d like to understand,

 

[MrsHenryAbra]

We need a local’s perspective!

I understand the Leslie/Sheppard area well because I worked there and I have some idea, but that’s worlds away from the Shermans’ neighbourhood and all the small details the WM must have known.

If you, or anyone, can give us insight that is helpful, imo.

Walking the scene helps. Vyner was likely used, walking it tells you that much.

imo, speculation

 

[dotr]

.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

What would it mean for the coat to not be out in the open?

Where do we typically store winter coats?

If she did come in and store it, the key is that she had time to come in and store it.

Then surprised from the hallway? Struggle? Etc etc?

imo, speculation

The coat somehow factors in, the police don’t want to release cctv images of her wearing it.

Took the coat off in the mall and it was found in her car: possibly carjacked or surprised in the driveway.

Coat was found hanging up in the coat closet by the front doors and powder room where her phone was found: maybe they attacked her after she hung it up.

No coat found: why did the killer take it?

 

[MrsHenryAbra]

The coat somehow factors in, the police don’t want to release cctv images of her wearing it.

Took the coat off in the mall and it was found in her car: possibly carjacked or surprised in the driveway.

Coat was found hanging up in the coat closet by the front doors and powder room where her phone was found: maybe they attacked her after she hung it up.

No coat found: why did the killer take it?

Coat stowed, then she was attacked. The key being this would likely show the attacker was originally inside the house, likely before her. That’s why her phone was found where it was and his phone was found where it was! She was ambushed inside the house.

Carjacking is shown in police documents as being a baseless rumor more or less. They’ve redacted some stuff so who knows but seems no evidence i. favor. KD highlights the forensic attention given to her driver side door, but that only need be done once the rumor started. Doesn’t mean they have anything on camera. Do you really think they wouldn’t release that kinda info? I mean, it is TPS…
imo, speculation

 

[FPoulet]

I tend to agree with your and @AndrewM71 ’s views on Harlo and you both have a better grasp of business matters than me.

RSBM
I don’t know that I have a better grasp of business matters than you. I am maybe just more cynical about JS’s role there

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Coat stowed, then she was attacked. The key being this would likely show the attacker was originally inside the house, likely before her. That’s why her phone was found where it was and his phone was found where it was! She was ambushed inside the house.

Carjacking is shown in police documents as being a baseless rumor more or less. They’ve redacted some stuff so who knows but seems no evidence i. favor. KD highlights the forensic attention given to her driver side door, but that only need be done once the rumor started. Doesn’t mean they have anything on camera. Do you really think they wouldn’t release that kinda info? I mean, it is TPS…
imo, speculation

That’s just it. Unless it’s in the ITOs and I haven’t seen it, we don’t know where or if her coat was found.