CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[branmuffin]

I read somewhere a phrase that doesn’t give any clue, but probably explains why the case has not been solved. I think I already mentioned it, but it came in resonance with how I feel.

Barry was a businessman, and business is competitive. That’s one thing.

The Shermans were huge philanthropists and loyal to their party. That’s amazing.

But doesn’t philanthropy start at home?
How do people view Barry’s treatment of the four orphaned children of Louis Lloyd-Winter, his uncle? Would there be Apotex without his uncle’s Empire Laboratories? And honestly, did Barry treat the uncle’s children fairly? Or as generously as everyone else?

And now there is Terry the nephew, it seems.

I know, the Shermans were two older people, getting weak, retired and murdered in own home. Cruel. Very.

So if I am torn. Honestly, regarding their own, they were not fair to them (very surprising, given their own histories; Barry’s family escaped Russian pogroms, and Holly’s parents were Holocaust survivors…such people usually help the families and the families’ families.)

So as long as the Shermans were alive and were mega-donors, and were generous to their children, community and the party, they were seen.

But Holly left no will, so all stays as it was set. Perhaps their children are carrying on the charity, to a degree. I never read anything painting them personally in the negative light.

But because, I bet, I am not the only one who feels that deep inside, the Shermans are hard to understand, perhaps many others feel, too, that “it is a messy story. God knows what stood behind it.” If something is found out, good. If not, so be it. RIP.

Where I live, there are immigrants from all parts of the world. I see how people treat their families. Some of us have few close relatives, but still, the family means a lot, even remote ones. And most of us have not experienced the tragic history of the Sherman’s people.

Am I wrong? Holly was difficult, it seems, but all the warmth in the family came from her. Barry abandoned his side of the family. Is what has happened somewhat predictable?

The personalities of both Honey and Barry were quixotic. Barry was the classic nerd/dreamer who always seemed to be one step ahead when it came to making money and basically left the raising of the children to Honey. Honey was more strict with her children than Barry was. He was a benevolent father who eschewed his own trappings of wealth by driving cars into the ground, always looking for a deal for himself but was wildly magnanimous with his money if something caught his eye. He spent millions on Frank D'Angelo who made terrible movies where he cast himself as the hero and Barry lapped it up. Honey couldn't accept that her son was gay and blamed his boyfriends for changing him. Barry was generous but if he got a whiff of backstabbing he was swift and cold withdrawing funds. They were a messy couple that fought constantly when the kids were younger. According to the kids they became more affectionate and nicer to each other later in life not battling each other that much. A lot of relatives used Barry as a never ending bank account using his cash to create businesses that never took off because the cushion of his wealth was always there. Barry at the end was looking for liquid capital because of an upcoming lawsuit and wanted 50+ million from his son who said he would release funds but never got around to it because his parents were murdered essentially saving Jonathon from having to cough up the funds.

 

[branmuffin]

I’m a service provider with many long term clients, some who I’ve been with for 20 years. I don’t think it’s strange for her to talk to one of hers at all. We do find out all kinds of things about our clients and they find things out about us.

Like bartenders and hairdressers. They hear some of the most personal aspects of their clientele's life.

 

[AndrewM71]

If Honey's will existed and were submitted to probate at her death, as a legal matter the will could only direct the disposition of what she owned at her death.

But before her death Honey could write the will to dispose of her funds according to whatever contingencies she saw fit, including contingencies to address moneys she didn't yet own. (Contingencies in property settlements are subject to arcane legal principles such as the rule against perpetuities, etc.)

Barry was five years older than Honey, and according to Google women in Canada outlive men by about 4.5 years. So statistically Honey could expect to survive Barry by many years. Given the Shermans' means, responsible estate planning for Honey would have to consider the possibility of inheritance from Barry, even if it was just the income from a trust. And Honey's sister Mary has indicated that Honey was going to settle money on her (Mary), implying that Barry would have first given or willed the money to Honey. Honey's will could address potential money from Barry or his estate in any number of ways, simply by assuming a larger residual for the residual beneficiaries, or by specifying certain distributions if the residual exceeded a certain amount or other if-then provisions.

Honey would have been a labour intensive client for estate planning. Based on what we know, Barry controlled the money (I think the ITOs showed she didn’t have a bank account in her own name).

Much of their wealth was likely in trust, some was in closely held corporations. I think I read once that a property was registered to a holding company. I think Honey would have had difficulty explaining what she owned personally, what was in jointure, and assets in which she only had a beneficial interest.

At this level of net worth, the lawyer would want to do an exhaustive inventory of her net worth and potential net worth. It’s not like the average wealth person who has 2-3 properties, a holding company, and an investment portfolio. A financial inventory of Honey’s interests would be time consuming.

 

[Charlot123]

The personalities of both Honey and Barry were quixotic. Barry was the classic nerd/dreamer who always seemed to be one step ahead when it came to making money and basically left the raising of the children to Honey. Honey was more strict with her children than Barry was. He was a benevolent father who eschewed his own trappings of wealth by driving cars into the ground, always looking for a deal for himself but was wildly magnanimous with his money if something caught his eye. He spent millions on Frank D'Angelo who made terrible movies where he cast himself as the hero and Barry lapped it up. Honey couldn't accept that her son was gay and blamed his boyfriends for changing him. Barry was generous but if he got a whiff of backstabbing he was swift and cold withdrawing funds. They were a messy couple that fought constantly when the kids were younger. According to the kids they became more affectionate and nicer to each other later in life not battling each other that much. A lot of relatives used Barry as a never ending bank account using his cash to create businesses that never took off because the cushion of his wealth was always there. Barry at the end was looking for liquid capital because of an upcoming lawsuit and wanted 50+ million from his son who said he would release funds but never got around to it because his parents were murdered essentially saving Jonathon from having to cough up the funds.

It would be interesting to know more about Holly. Did she, as they sometimes say, "have a mouth on her" but at the same time, was ungrudging?

Barry is easier to understand. He probably was a distant person, thinking in dollar signs. Generosity could be both his way of showing that he cared but also, the way to pay off for lack of warmth. With JS and 50+ million…I don't quite understand whether BS promised to finance a certain project and then responded like, "you know nothing about business, give me my money back", or was it a loan that was supposed to be treated like such, with percentage and regular payoffs? There are different ways to finance projects, but people have to have a firm understanding of whether it is a business loan, or a gift (and if it is a gift that you gave out of the kindness of your heart, you don't demand it back - JMO).

Now, of course, not accepting your son as gay can create a rift and be the source of trauma in the kid, too, for years to come. I assume life was not that simple in the household.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Forgive me as I get frustrated about the whole business with wills!

If Honey had a will, she never asked anyone to be her executor. She never told anyone they were a beneficiary. Nobody has come forward to say they witnessed her signature. No law firm has contacted the court to say they had a copy of her executed will. No person has come forward to say a law firm contacted them after her death to say they were an executor. A judge reviewed all of the evidence and decided she did not have a will.

Barry had a will, and his executors knew about it. There is no evidence Honey had a will, only a nagging sense that she must have had one, and only among people in no position to know. Even her sister has never suggested that she had a will.

I believe HS felt the BS will was hers as well, that is where she is mentioned and taken care of, when she spoke of her will it was her and BS will, not a separate will. Many married couples have one combined will especially if one spouse does not earn an income.

 

[WINDSOR]

delete

 

[dotr]

Real estate ventures can also create enemies, imo, speculation.
2017

Toronto Buzzes With Talk of Billionaire Couple’s Suspicious Death (Published 2017)

Family and friends of the generic-drug mogul Barry Sherman and his wife, Honey, say someone killed them and made it look like a murder-suicide.

www.nytimes.com

''Fred Waks, a real estate developer and close friend of the Shermans, said: “Barry was involved in big pharmacy on a worldwide basis. His lawsuits pertained to billions of dollars, back and forth. When you are dealing with the size of that industry and the amounts we are talking about, you make enemies.”
''He added, “And you make enemies on a global basis.”

 

[PrairieWind]

I believe HS felt the BS will was hers as well, that is where she is mentioned and taken care of, when she spoke of her will it was her and BS will, not a separate will. Many married couples have one combined will especially if one spouse does not earn an income.

I haven't been able to follow much late, but is there a will that is missing or alleged will that is missing?

 

[AndrewM71]

I believe HS felt the BS will was hers as well, that is where she is mentioned and taken care of, when she spoke of her will it was her and BS will, not a separate will. Many married couples have one combined will especially if one spouse does not earn an income.

They do not.

They have mirror/mutual wills. There are no combined/dual wills in Ontario.

 

[fadedglitter]

I haven't been able to follow much late, but is there a will that is missing or alleged will that is missing?

No will is missing. Honey Sherman died intestate and some people believed she would have made different choices.

 

[PrairieWind]

No will is missing. Honey Sherman died intestate and some people believed she would have made different choices.

I'm still confused. Was there some sort of mutual wills for the couple? or no will at all?
Joint wills are still allowed in the states but long ago stopped really being a thing you see. I have never seen one in all my years practicing. I know nothing about Canadian estate laws.

 

[AndrewM71]

I'm still confused. Was there some sort of mutual wills for the couple? or no will at all?
Joint wills are still allowed in the states but long ago stopped really being a thing you see. I have never seen one in all my years practicing. I know nothing about Canadian estate laws.

Honey died intestate, a court determined she had no legal will. If the will was considered to be lost, the executors most likely would have tried to prove a copy of the will. There is a rebuttable presumption that a missing will was destroyed by the testator for revocation.

As far as I know, we have never heard anything about a will missing/lost/destroyed or any attempt to prove a copy in solemn form.

It’s quite bizarre that Barry had a comprehensive estate plan, including an inter vivid trust and deployment of a second will for non-probatable assets, and she had nothing. Some people are weird about wills though, they have trouble facing their own mortality.

We know that Barry controlled the purse strings, and since his wills gave Honey a spousal trust but no assets, he may have felt that her will was relatively unimportant (despite an apparent estate value of $50 million or so). Intestacies are a pain in the neck for the administrators and beneficiaries, but nobody in this family was going hungry and the statutory succession plan for an intestacy is hardly a disaster.

 

[branmuffin]

Honey died intestate, a court determined she had no legal will. If the will was considered to be lost, the executors most likely would have tried to prove a copy of the will. There is a rebuttable presumption that a missing will was destroyed by the testator for revocation.

As far as I know, we have never heard anything about a will missing/lost/destroyed or any attempt to prove a copy in solemn form.

It’s quite bizarre that Barry had a comprehensive estate plan, including an inter vivid trust and deployment of a second will for non-probatable assets, and she had nothing. Some people are weird about wills though, they have trouble facing their own mortality.

We know that Barry controlled the purse strings, and since his wills gave Honey a spousal trust but no assets, he may have felt that her will was relatively unimportant (despite an apparent estate value of $50 million or so). Intestacies are a pain in the neck for the administrators and beneficiaries, but nobody in this family was going hungry and the statutory succession plan for an intestacy is hardly a disaster.

I think he kept it separate because he thought Honey would gave all the money to charity. The business was his baby. She was the charity champion and Barry went along with it. Even though his kids weren't interested in the business I think he always held out hope one of them or their spouses would have taken on the mantle. The problem is Barry was a genius and the kids although, probably smart had no concept of the business world. Even their own personal interests, including JS's who at least did try numerous businesses always relied on his father's financial backing. They don't strike me as individuals who would have managed having no financial cushion.

 

[AndrewM71]

I think he kept it separate because he thought Honey would gave all the money to charity. The business was his baby. She was the charity champion and Barry went along with it. Even though his kids weren't interested in the business I think he always held out hope one of them or their spouses would have taken on the mantle. The problem is Barry was a genius and the kids although, probably smart had no concept of the business world. Even their own personal interests, including JS's who at least did try numerous businesses always relied on his father's financial backing. They don't strike me as individuals who would have managed having no financial cushion.

Even if Honey had a will, I’m certain he still would have created the spousal trust. It’s not an unusual move among high net worth individuals, for many reasons. Even without the talk of giving Mary a huge chunk, it would be his preference. He would be worried about her squandering it, people pressuring her, a second husband - lots of things.

There is some irony in Barry not trusting Honey with money and also being the guy who poured millions into Frank D’Angelo.

 

[newclues]

NW

 

[Charlot123]

Even if Honey had a will, I’m certain he still would have created the spousal trust. It’s not an unusual move among high net worth individuals, for many reasons. Even without the talk of giving Mary a huge chunk, it would be his preference. He would be worried about her squandering it, people pressuring her, a second husband - lots of things.

There is some irony in Barry not trusting Honey with money and also being the guy who poured millions into Frank D’Angelo.

It is a sad irony that they, each in own way, were so money-oriented and never had the time to enjoy the money.

Nor do they appear as the people who liked themselves. Barry’s face was his business. I wonder how long he’d stay retired. Maybe he’d end up buying something tiny, like a toy business, starting something small from a scratch and turn into a full-fledged business again.

Honey’s face was philanthropy (and this is the best face because you are always loved! Praised! A mega-donor, wow), but did she love herself? Maybe not that much, to think of.

They entered eternity not as people who were philanthropists or mega-donors, not even as descendants of Holocaust survivors who succeeded, but as people who were barbarically killed in own house on the verge of retirement.

Thinking of which…

- Have reasons such as hate crime been looked into? 2017, not impossible. How do people even decide that’s not a the reason to kill given that the Shermans were an obvious target and not a closed book?

- also, BS was in dire need of money. Was there a chance that those who stood to inherit, and I don’t necessarily mean the family, given that his will was so complex, but anyone involved was afraid of more lawsuits and the S losing a lot of their money? Could that be a concern?

 

[fadedglitter]

Hate crimes, as in the “religious motive” MS suggested to the police?

 

[Charlot123]

Real estate ventures can also create enemies, imo, speculation.
2017

Toronto Buzzes With Talk of Billionaire Couple’s Suspicious Death (Published 2017)

Family and friends of the generic-drug mogul Barry Sherman and his wife, Honey, say someone killed them and made it look like a murder-suicide.

www.nytimes.com

''Fred Waks, a real estate developer and close friend of the Shermans, said: “Barry was involved in big pharmacy on a worldwide basis. His lawsuits pertained to billions of dollars, back and forth. When you are dealing with the size of that industry and the amounts we are talking about, you make enemies.”
''He added, “And you make enemies on a global basis.”

OK, but global enemies think globally; take over your business, buying or destroying your company, hacking your assets… not killing you and your aging wife. BS alone, a car accident, would have been enough. There is something in sketches that I can define as “mockery.” Mockery means, hatred. This really looks like “interested in inheritance or harboring intense revenge” that also sounds like closer to home. Or someone small who believed their life was ruined by the S. Or, because the S were so rich and visible, it can be considered as hate crime. They are not some small people, they were that proverbial “One percent.”

 

[Charlot123]

Hate crimes, as in the “religious motive” MS suggested to the police?

Yes. Financially, they were “tops” of that “religious motive”, supported causes but obviously, never viewed themselves as a potential target. Didn’t have security, and they could have afforded it. Their house was by far not a guarded castle. They were an ideal prey. And an easy one.

 

[fadedglitter]

Perhaps. This would be in line with the theory that the killer hated them personally and viscerally. The Shermans may not even have known this person despised them so intensely, or that their hatred would lead to violence.

Under this scenario, the benefit to the killer would be to remove individuals who were desperately hated, however irrationally. If this in fact was the motive, I’m sympathetic to the kids’ fear that they might be next.