CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[wibbleflea]

So my question is, was it really unusual for her to miss these charity meetings? Maybe if one had access to the meeting's minutes for a year, we could see what her attendance pattern was really like.

Good question. I can't remember seeing her attendance record reported directly.

Was the meeting cancelled by her, or did it take place even in her absence?

From McLeans (5 April 2018):
'On Dec. 12, 2017, the day before the couple was last seen alive, Honey missed a scheduled meeting at the Baycrest Centre Foundation. Were it any other board member, no one would’ve paid heed, says Josh Cooper, the foundation’s president and CEO. But Honey, a beloved queen bee in the upper echelons of Canadian philanthropy, was known for showing up—or else saying she couldn’t. “It was bizarre,” says Cooper. They sent an email to make sure she was okay. “Honey got back to us right away,” he says. “She said she was dealing with some stuff.”'

 

[WINDSOR]

Good question. I can't remember seeing her attendance record reported directly.


From McLeans (5 April 2018):
'On Dec. 12, 2017, the day before the couple was last seen alive, Honey missed a scheduled meeting at the Baycrest Centre Foundation. Were it any other board member, no one would’ve paid heed, says Josh Cooper, the foundation’s president and CEO. But Honey, a beloved queen bee in the upper echelons of Canadian philanthropy, was known for showing up—or else saying she couldn’t. “It was bizarre,” says Cooper. They sent an email to make sure she was okay. “Honey got back to us right away,” he says. “She said she was dealing with some stuff.”'

Interesting, most times when Honey was not able to attend she would advise the group. This time she just did nothing.

On December 12., Honey was dealing with some stuff. It was a Tuesday, the first day of Hanukkah.
What kind of stuff was she dealing with? Not likely scheduled, like a doctors appointment, or a hair-dresser.

Did something come up unexpectedly that Honey felt she had to deal with right away? Sounds to me (I am only guessing) a family matter or something ominous.

Did she cancel or miss any other activities she had scheduled for the Tuesday? Were there any changes in the Old Colony Road house activities?

Did Honey have a warning, did she contact Barry to speak to him at work, about something peculiar?
Honey was murdered the next night, so what was occurring on Tuesday in her life could be very meaningful.
MOO

 

[wibbleflea]

Did something come up unexpectedly that Honey felt she had to deal with right away? Sounds to me (I am only guessing) a family matter or something ominous.

Did she cancel or miss any other activities she had scheduled for the Tuesday? Were there any changes in the Old Colony Road house activities?

That afternoon, it seems like she was moving planned activities away from Tuesday and Wednesday to later in the week. She missed the charity event without notifying anyone and also moved her meet-up with Alexandra. Perhaps she was just busy planning the Florida trip (that planning was ongoing that day, according to the article) or because there was a specific event that was occupying her mentally.

From KD's Toronto Star article, via Pressreader.

Tuesday, Dec. 12: The architects meeting is switched from Tuesday to Wednesday, to be held at Apotex. Stanley is working away at Old Colony with Honey that Tuesday. Honey has lots of plans with friends once she (and later Barry) will be in Florida starting the following week. Emails shared by friends confirm this and also show the very social Honey double and even triple booking events. Old Colony is filled with painters primping the house for a Wednesday showing. There's an offer in, but it is too low.

[Edited to add that Stanley is Sheila Stanley, Honey's PA.]

The article also documents multiple emails sent by Honey to re-arrange her Hannukah visit with Alexandra, suggesting that they move it from that day to later in the week, eventually settling on Friday, after suggesting that that would give her time to make some food. There are messages going back and forth between her and Alexandra. So she's active, online and moving planned events away from that day (12th) and Wednesday to later in the week. That sounds plausibly normal (pure conjecture – I don't know what was normal for HS) but the lack of communication about her missing the charity meeting that day struck Josh Cooper as 'bizarre'.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I am curious about Honey not attending the charity meeting just prior to her death.

Was the meeting cancelled by her, or did it take place even in her absence?
Some people have implied it was unusual for her to miss a meeting and therefore something unusual was taken place in her life.
I do know she had previous health issues, (cancer, hip and knee replacement) which could have previously caused her to miss meetings.

So my question is, was it really unusual for her to miss these charity meetings? Maybe if one had access to the meeting's minutes for a year, we could see what her attendance pattern was really like.

I have wondered if Honey not giving a heads up she was not coming was normal behaviour, that they had to reach out to her to see where she was, for me infers they were concerned about her as a no show. Out of character.

I had the feeling she kept organized and had help to do so with an assistant, this has always made me wonder as well was her reply - she was dealing with something, or some personal stuff, normal wording she would use to this group?

Missing this meeting has always been so vaguely reported with little to no details. It could have nothing to do with the deaths, but wow so many little odd and maybe out of character things were going on in the months leading to the deaths. And discussions of potentially huge money movements, spending coming in favour to people whom normally did not receive BS generosity with gifts of money, could they all be connected? If so what is the common denominator?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Good question. I can't remember seeing her attendance record reported directly.


From McLeans (5 April 2018):
'On Dec. 12, 2017, the day before the couple was last seen alive, Honey missed a scheduled meeting at the Baycrest Centre Foundation. Were it any other board member, no one would’ve paid heed, says Josh Cooper, the foundation’s president and CEO. But Honey, a beloved queen bee in the upper echelons of Canadian philanthropy, was known for showing up—or else saying she couldn’t. “It was bizarre,” says Cooper. They sent an email to make sure she was okay. “Honey got back to us right away,” he says. “She said she was dealing with some stuff.”'

Was that the Tuesday, did she have people over helping to declutter to better stage the home for up coming showings that day?

That could make the out of character missing the meeting be plausible if she was caught up in an emotional roller coaster to remove stuff and hear feedback that was not complementary of her décor taste. That could distract someone and lose track of time.

 

[Charlot123]

I have wondered if Honey not giving a heads up she was not coming was normal behaviour, that they had to reach out to her to see where she was, for me infers they were concerned about her as a no show. Out of character.

I had the feeling she kept organized and had help to do so with an assistant, this has always made me wonder as well was her reply - she was dealing with something, or some personal stuff, normal wording she would use to this group?

Missing this meeting has always been so vaguely reported with little to no details. It could have nothing to do with the deaths, but wow so many little odd and maybe out of character things were going on in the months leading to the deaths. And discussions of potentially huge money movements, spending coming in favour to people whom normally did not receive BS generosity with gifts of money, could they all be connected? If so what is the common denominator?

Sometimes the tone of the answer can tell you a lot. “Some stuff” may be nasty (depending on the tone) or anxiously pleasant. That people might remember.

 

[fadedglitter]

Was that the Tuesday, did she have people over helping to declutter to better stage the home for up coming showings that day?

That could make the out of character missing the meeting be plausible if she was caught up in an emotional roller coaster to remove stuff and hear feedback that was not complementary of her décor taste. That could distract someone and lose track of time.

The house was full of workers early that week, some painting, some doing maintenance, some decluttering. If anyone critiqued her decor, it hasn’t been mentioned. Honey was trying to plan social activities for her trip to Florida, and plans for the current week kept changing.

MOO: “dealing with some stuff” sounds correct. It was a busy week sandwiched between travel weeks, with two houses for sale and a lot going on. Tuesday was going to be busy: she had this board meeting, a Hanukkah dinner at Alex’s, a meeting with builders, and she had not done the shopping she wanted to do with the kids. At the last minute the dinner and the meeting with builders were both moved. It’s plausible to me that she felt she was dealing with too much stuff to be able to make a multi-hour meeting that day. The unusual part was not that she missed a meeting but that she didn’t send regrets beforehand. Maybe she just didn’t want to get into the details of her overbooked Tuesday (which unexpectedly turned into a free Tuesday).

 

[dotr]

Just noting because it gave me goosebumps... fwiw, imo.
In search of info. about the unrelated murders of gay men by US SK, Herb. B., came across a show that focused on the perceived creepy vibes at the indoor pool at his former mansion.
No connection to the Sherman murders, but it was chilling to see statues in the pool area, where he may have strangled his victims.

Fox Hollow serial killer's secret tapes could reveal murder horrors if ever found: documentary

Herb Baumeister, a thrift store owner, is believed to have killed at least 25 people from the 1980s to the 1990s and buried them throughout his $1 million, 18-acre property.

www.foxnews.com

The docuseries details how Herb Baumeister may have killed his victims in his pool. (ABC News Studios/Hulu)

 

[xjd11]

Just noting because it gave me goosebumps... fwiw, imo.
In search of info. about the unrelated murders of gay men by US SK, Herb. B., came across a show that focused on the perceived creepy vibes at the indoor pool at his former mansion.
No connection to the Sherman murders, but it was chilling to see statues in the pool area, where he may have strangled his victims.

Fox Hollow serial killer's secret tapes could reveal murder horrors if ever found: documentary

Herb Baumeister, a thrift store owner, is believed to have killed at least 25 people from the 1980s to the 1990s and buried them throughout his $1 million, 18-acre property.

www.foxnews.com

View attachment 567150
The docuseries details how Herb Baumeister may have killed his victims in his pool. (ABC News Studios/Hulu)

I remember seeing this case on one of those early A&E crime shows I think, and it is so very, very, creepy.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Just noting because it gave me goosebumps... fwiw, imo.
In search of info. about the unrelated murders of gay men by US SK, Herb. B., came across a show that focused on the perceived creepy vibes at the indoor pool at his former mansion.
No connection to the Sherman murders, but it was chilling to see statues in the pool area, where he may have strangled his victims.

Fox Hollow serial killer's secret tapes could reveal murder horrors if ever found: documentary

Herb Baumeister, a thrift store owner, is believed to have killed at least 25 people from the 1980s to the 1990s and buried them throughout his $1 million, 18-acre property.

www.foxnews.com

View attachment 567150
The docuseries details how Herb Baumeister may have killed his victims in his pool. (ABC News Studios/Hulu)

I had never heard of that case, how horrible.

That photo reminds me of the images of the Shermans’ pool in the KD documentary:

Still image from:

 

[WINDSOR]

I understand the TPS is swamped with all sorts of criminal activities that are taking up their resources.
However I think the Sherman cases deserves a press conference and update.

Hopefully some of you sleuthers know someone in the political sphere or even with the TPS and can rattle some cages to get some updates.

The TPS solved the Airport heist pretty quickly, and nobody was injured. I would think the deaths of the Sherman's would have a higher priority MOO

 

[fadedglitter]

There isn’t an update, though. We’ll have more from the ITOs if the police agree to unseal them in the court process that’s going on now, but that won’t be an update, just more information about what the police knew years ago.

 

[JayFriend]

It's been over seven years with no real progress. Is it too politically sensitive to publicly solve? When does it officially become a cold case?

 

[fadedglitter]

It's been over seven years with no real progress. Is it too politically sensitive to publicly solve? When does it officially become a cold case?

When information stops coming in. They’re continuing to sift through data from production orders. There is also a steady stream of tips from people who think various people in the Shermans’ orbit are weird.

 

[dotr]

Probable re-post. rbbm.

The rarity of "unusual" [corrected] dispositions of victim bodies: staging and posing - PubMed

The act of leaving a victim's body in an unusual position is a conscious criminal action by an offender to thwart an investigation, shock the finder and investigators of the crime scene, or give perverted pleasure to the killer. The unusual position concepts of posing and staging a murder victim...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Robert D Keppel , Joseph G Weis
''The act of leaving a victim's body in an unusual position is a conscious criminal action by an offender to thwart an investigation, shock the finder and investigators of the crime scene, or give perverted pleasure to the killer. The unusual position concepts of posing and staging a murder victim have been documented thoroughly and have been accepted by the courts as a definable phenomenon.''

''Only 1.3% of victims are left in an unusual position, with 0.3% being posed and 0.1% being staged. The characteristics of these types of murders also set them apart: compared to all other murders, in staged murders the victims and killers are, on average, older. All victims and offenders in the staged murders are white, with victims being disproportionately white in murders with any kind of unusual body disposition.''

''Lastly, when a body is left in an unusual position, binding is more likely, as well as the use of more "hands on" means of killing the victim, such as stabbing or cutting weapons, bludgeons, ligatures, or hands and feet.''

 

[newclues]

Lots of personnel (and personal) changes.
March 7, 2018 Lengthy.

https://macleans.ca/economy/business/apotex-claims-longtime-chemist-went-rogue-and-stole-drug-secrets/

By Michael Friscolanti
''Court documents obtained by Maclean’s reveal the existence of a high-stakes internal investigation launched by Canada’s largest drug-maker in January 2017—and the urgent lawsuit that followed, aimed at recouping what the company describes as “highly sensitive” intellectual property of “enormous” value. Apotex is so determined to retrieve any missing data that, at one point during the ongoing litigation, company lawyers demanded that the former staffer be imprisoned for 45 days for contempt of court because he “willfully and deliberately” ignored a judge’s order to hand over USB drives, email passwords and other electronic devices believed to contain confidential information.''

''News of the lawsuit comes as Apotex tries to defend itself against similar allegations of corporate espionage. In a court action launched last July in the United States, Sherman’s company is accused of using sex, lies and USB drives to illegally obtain valuable trade secrets from the world’s largest generic drug-maker, Israel’s Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd. As Maclean’s reported last month, a Pennsylvania judge denied Apotex’s attempt to throw out the sensational lawsuit, which accuses a former Teva executive of leaking confidential information to her boyfriend—then-Apotex CEO Jeremy Desai. Desai abruptly resigned in January, six weeks after the Shermans were killed, “to pursue other opportunities,” according to the company.''

Wasn't JD married? Did this result in any divorce? Did someone in JD's family blame BS for bringing him/them over to Canada and having this happen? Was it a hurt family member or their relative as a potential possibility/probability ?

 

[newclues]

But BS didn’t in fact work late that day. He left Apotex early that day, at least compared to his well established work routine. Did HS lie to or mislead the builders?

One of the builders mentioned that BS told them that he had to get home earlier for something but forgot what. This seems to be important. Was a police hypnotist ever used to make the builder recall?

 

[newclues]

I have difficulty believing that every one of the people in attendance at that meeting have 100% lack of recall when it comes to that comment. They are builders and architects, detail oriented professions, and none of them remember? I think LE knows what was said and are choosing not to disclose it.

Police have used hypnosis in order to have someone recall something. Did they used it there?

 

[newclues]

That afternoon, it seems like she was moving planned activities away from Tuesday and Wednesday to later in the week. She missed the charity event without notifying anyone and also moved her meet-up with Alexandra. Perhaps she was just busy planning the Florida trip (that planning was ongoing that day, according to the article) or because there was a specific event that was occupying her mentally.

From KD's Toronto Star article, via Pressreader.

Tuesday, Dec. 12: The architects meeting is switched from Tuesday to Wednesday, to be held at Apotex. Stanley is working away at Old Colony with Honey that Tuesday. Honey has lots of plans with friends once she (and later Barry) will be in Florida starting the following week. Emails shared by friends confirm this and also show the very social Honey double and even triple booking events. Old Colony is filled with painters primping the house for a Wednesday showing. There's an offer in, but it is too low.

[Edited to add that Stanley is Sheila Stanley, Honey's PA.]

The article also documents multiple emails sent by Honey to re-arrange her Hannukah visit with Alexandra, suggesting that they move it from that day to later in the week, eventually settling on Friday, after suggesting that that would give her time to make some food. There are messages going back and forth between her and Alexandra. So she's active, online and moving planned events away from that day (12th) and Wednesday to later in the week. That sounds plausibly normal (pure conjecture – I don't know what was normal for HS) but the lack of communication about her missing the charity meeting that day struck Josh Cooper as 'bizarre'.

Was there anything said between HS and AK regarding any marital problems or possible divorce between AK and BK at that time? They did separate and divorce around a year after BS's and HS's deaths.

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe someone suggested she do so?

Or maybe someone was doing something at their house? Cleaning, organizing, setting up for sales? Something like this? The easiest reason to move myself out: if someone is cleaning. In such cases one wouldn’t necessarily explain why, but I wonder if any of regular household things was moved by the person providing the services. Or if some extra work around the house was offered only at that time slot?