CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[fadedglitter]

Not sloppy…it’s easy to forget that the police have already said that they excluded almost everyone caught on videos from that night. After all, it was years ago.

This video is new to Donovan so it’s natural to seek more details about it, and the police haven’t been forthcoming with details. I think TPS could do a better job of explaining that they have already said everything they can about videos around the Sherman home in the days before and after the murders. They tend to say nothing rather than reminding reporters of their previous statements. It may preserve the investigation but it does nothing for those who are seeking assurances that the police know who these people are.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Not sloppy…it’s easy to forget that the police have already said that they excluded almost everyone caught on videos from that night. After all, it was years ago.

This video is new to Donovan so it’s natural to seek more details about it, and the police haven’t been forthcoming with details. I think TPS could do a better job of explaining that they have already said everything they can about videos around the Sherman home in the days before and after the murders. They tend to say nothing rather than reminding reporters of their previous statements. It may preserve the investigation but it does nothing for those who are seeking assurances that the police know who these people are.

I agree with your point that the police have said they identified all of the pedestrians within the immediate neighbourhood with the exception of the WM suspect. They could have asked the public’s help to identify the SUVs or their occupants, but they didn’t. KD conceded in the same article that there may be a reasonable explanation as to why they were there.

It may be a stretch on my part, but I think KD is drawing our attention to what happened at #46 for a reason. He’s leading us somewhere, imo.

The thing that bugs me is that the occupants of one SUV were there for close to an hour, at times going from the front door to the vehicle, and no lights were seen going on inside the home. But the outside garage light was on.

 

[dotr]

Any chance this was all a case of mistaken identity?

 

[Andreee]

I agree with your point that the police have said they identified all of the pedestrians within the immediate neighbourhood with the exception of the WM suspect. They could have asked the public’s help to identify the SUVs or their occupants, but they didn’t. KD conceded in the same article that there may be a reasonable explanation as to why they were there.

It may be a stretch on my part, but I think KD is drawing our attention to what happened at #46 for a reason. He’s leading us somewhere, imo.

The thing that bugs me is that the occupants of one SUV were there for close to an hour, at times going from the front door to the vehicle, and no lights were seen going on inside the home. But the outside garage light was on.

I had read there were burglaries in the neighborhood, and the residents of that house were living elsewhere at the time. So maybe they had security people checking on their property or security system or possibly adding to it. Just a thought!

 

[ldlager]

Not sloppy…it’s easy to forget that the police have already said that they excluded almost everyone caught on videos from that night. After all, it was years ago.

This video is new to Donovan so it’s natural to seek more details about it, and the police haven’t been forthcoming with details. I think TPS could do a better job of explaining that they have already said everything they can about videos around the Sherman home in the days before and after the murders. They tend to say nothing rather than reminding reporters of their previous statements. It may preserve the investigation but it does nothing for those who are seeking assurances that the police know who these people are.

The other possible reason LE hasn’t had any comment on this video is that perhaps they never got around to looking at it until KD wrote about it recently. Nothing would surprise me.

 

[fadedglitter]

If this video is real, it is completely implausible that the police did not look at it. Only three groups of people have had access to it:
1) The people who owned the footage, who told KD they didn’t look at Wednesday.
2) The cops.
3) People the cops showed it to in an effort to identify the visitors.

If it’s real, whoever gave it to KD ultimately got it via the police, however roundabout the acquisition was. Someone edited it to cut it off immediately after one of the vehicles drives away, and then leaked it to the Star. I am more interested in why they did that than in who these visitors were.

It seems unlikely the leak is directly from the TPS. But it also seems unlikely that TPS would share the video directly with anyone in a format that would allow it to be shared with KD like this. They showed stills from other videos to people in the neighbourhood to eventually exclude everyone but the night walker. They weren’t handing out hour-long video clips. It’s bizarre that this video ever left police custody.

There is another possibility: it could be a fake. The homeowners wouldn’t be able to say one way or another, because they never looked at Wednesday’s footage, and TPS would likely consider it new evidence of an ongoing cover-up effort.

 

[ldlager]

If this video is real, it is completely implausible that the police did not look at it. Only three groups of people have had access to it:
1) The people who owned the footage, who told KD they didn’t look at Wednesday.
2) The cops.
3) People the cops showed it to in an effort to identify the visitors.

If it’s real, whoever gave it to KD ultimately got it via the police, however roundabout the acquisition was. Someone edited it to cut it off immediately after one of the vehicles drives away, and then leaked it to the Star. I am more interested in why they did that than in who these visitors were.

It seems unlikely the leak is directly from the TPS. But it also seems unlikely that TPS would share the video directly with anyone in a format that would allow it to be shared with KD like this. They showed stills from other videos to people in the neighbourhood to eventually exclude everyone but the night walker. They weren’t handing out hour-long video clips. It’s bizarre that this video ever left police custody.

There is another possibility: it could be a fake. The homeowners wouldn’t be able to say one way or another, because they never looked at Wednesday’s footage, and TPS would likely consider it new evidence of an ongoing cover-up effort.

Why couldn’t KD have gotten his copy directly from the homeowners who owned the camera? Presumably the recording was digital and so could be shared with KD and also the police.

 

[fadedglitter]

Why couldn’t KD have gotten his copy directly from the homeowners who owned the camera? Presumably the recording was digital and so could be shared with KD and also the police.

It certainly COULD, in theory, have been shared with KD if the homeowners had chosen to do so, but they didn’t. (Similarly, the homeowners COULD have reviewed Wednesday’s footage, but didn’t.)

This news story has a lot of discussion about the video camera angle and the type of footage it captured, but not this specific clip:

The officer who showed up at the homeowners’ house on Sunday took a copy of the video from Wednesday to Friday, and returned later to get the Monday and Tuesday portions of the video. The Star does not know what is on the Wednesday video because the homeowners never thought to view it.

The story makes it clear that Greenspan’s private team had, at minimum, the same footage from Thursday, the day after the murders. The team was disbanded years ago but it is possible one of its members kept the footage and is the source of the leak to KD. It’s also possible that when Alex fired the team she asked them to turn over all of their work product, and that she or someone close to her is the source of the leak.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

It certainly COULD, in theory, have been shared with KD if the homeowners had chosen to do so, but they didn’t. (Similarly, the homeowners COULD have reviewed Wednesday’s footage, but didn’t.)

This news story has a lot of discussion about the video camera angle and the type of footage it captured, but not this specific clip:

The officer who showed up at the homeowners’ house on Sunday took a copy of the video from Wednesday to Friday, and returned later to get the Monday and Tuesday portions of the video. The Star does not know what is on the Wednesday video because the homeowners never thought to view it.

The story makes it clear that Greenspan’s private team had, at minimum, the same footage from Thursday, the day after the murders. The team was disbanded years ago but it is possible one of its members kept the footage and is the source of the leak to KD. It’s also possible that when Alex fired the team she asked them to turn over all of their work product, and that she or someone close to her is the source of the leak.

RBBM

We have no idea if the homeowners with the cctv footage shared it with KD. Initially they said the hadn’t looked at Wednesday’s footage, but I think it’s reasonable that at some point afterwards they did. Especially when they found out the Shermans died on Wednesday, and they were part of the effort to identify the WM and the people in the SUVs.

The Greenspan team saw the cctv footage so my guess is, as you said, KD may have recently received it from someone close to the team.

 

[fadedglitter]

RBBM

We have no idea if the homeowners with the cctv footage shared it with KD. Initially they said the hadn’t looked at Wednesday’s footage, but I think it’s reasonable that at some point afterwards they did. Especially when they found out the Shermans died on Wednesday, and they were part of the effort to identify the WM and the people in the SUVs.

The Greenspan team saw the cctv footage so my guess is, as you said, KD may have recently received it from someone close to the team.

All I can do is refer you back to KD’s own confirmation that the homeowners did not share their footage with him.

The Star has not seen the video but has been provided with a detailed account, backed up by handwritten notes taken by a person who reviewed the tape. The person is the homeowner who provided copies of the video to police and to private investigator Mike Davis of Greenspan’s team before the original video (on a seven-day loop) was wiped clean.

 

[fadedglitter]

KD tells the story with slightly different details in his book. I’ll paraphrase:

The homeowners had approached police on the Friday the bodies were discovered and again Saturday. The system kept only seven days of video and overwrote a day each day. On Sunday the homeowners were leaving for a ski trip, and telephoned a detective. A detective arrived just before they left, and took a copy of the previous seven days of footage (this differs from the earlier description of taking Wed-Fri and returning to retrieve Mon-Tue).

The homeowners had noticed a dark four-door car driving west on OCR at 9:11am Thursday and parking on the street in front of the Sherman home. They recorded time codes and in total the man appeared to enter the house three times, for a total of 29 minutes inside the house. Finally, he returned to his car and drove off west. Others later saw the video and say it is possible the man never entered the Sherman home. (These “others” include Greenspan as noted below.)

The couple never thought to look at the Wednesday video, but thought the Thursday video was important.


Later in the book, he writes:

The family handed the security footage over to police and the private detectives but never checked it themselves to look for activity on the Wednesday, and neither the police nor the private team will say what they saw on the video.

Now an assumption from me: Greenspan spoke to KD about the Thursday footage:

Brian Greenspan, a lawyer for the Sherman family, said his private investigators have a copy of the video footage from the house and it is “inconclusive” — they cannot determine who the man is, what kind of car it is or the man’s exact movements.
“We have always been interested in (the video footage),” Greenspan said. “All I can tell you is what we see. When you try to improve on the very grainy security camera footage it pixelates. We are sort of stuck with the grainy footage.”

Greenspan was responding to questions about the Thursday visitor, not activity next door on the night of the murders. I am assuming that when KD wrote in 2019 that the private team would not say “what they saw on the video” he meant they would not tell him what they saw on Wednesday. If the now-disbanded private team is the source of this leak, that would be a shift since 2019. People leak information for their own bizarre reasons.

 

[WINDSOR]

The police held a press conference where they explained that they had reviewed the videos from around the Sherman home and excluded everyone seen on the videos other than the night walker. They don’t need to say this again every time someone notices another camera angle.

Are these the same police that stood quietly by while speculation about a murder-suicide theory spread in the media for six weeks? The same police that cannot identify the 'Night Walker" seven years later? The same police who....
"But in the days following the discovery of the Sherman bodies, police didn’t ask that question of family members, nor most business associates and others connected to the couple. Investigative sources say the lack of alibis is likely why Toronto homicide detectives have been unable to clear any of the many “persons of interest” suspected of having a hand in the killings." June 10, 2025 Toronto Star.

Historically some cold cases have been solved, when LE goes back and re-investigates people who have been 'cleared' and discovered something they previous investigator missed.

Agreed, "They don’t need to say this again every time someone notices another camera angle."
But it would be appreciated by some in the community if the TPS held a press conference about the case once a year or so.

MOO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

All I can do is refer you back to KD’s own confirmation that the homeowners did not share their footage with him.

The Star has not seen the video but has been provided with a detailed account, backed up by handwritten notes taken by a person who reviewed the tape. The person is the homeowner who provided copies of the video to police and to private investigator Mike Davis of Greenspan’s team before the original video (on a seven-day loop) was wiped clean.

I was thinking of the more recent leak. I think the Star was given the information from the Sherman side or someone on the former Greenspan team, but I think it coming directly from the source is a possibility.

Based on the neighbourhood streets, I’d expect that Honey and Barry would have slowly passed the home with the cctv, before turning onto or leaving #50, at least twice a day—Honey likely several times.

Google map
(Old Colony is a dead-end street. The most direct route in or out is Old Colony to Bayview).

When the homeowners looked at Thursday’s and Friday’s cctv, the most glaring thing would have been the absence of Honey and Barry leaving and arriving home. Possibly noticeable was the lack of lights going on and off within the Sherman home, especially on Thursday.

That’s part of why I have a tough time believing they didn’t look at Wednesday’s cctv at any point until now. But I’ll take it as a MSM fact of the case that they have said they didn’t look at Wednesday’s footage.

^^ my views only

 

[ldlager]

KD tells the story with slightly different details in his book. I’ll paraphrase:

The homeowners had approached police on the Friday the bodies were discovered and again Saturday. The system kept only seven days of video and overwrote a day each day. On Sunday the homeowners were leaving for a ski trip, and telephoned a detective. A detective arrived just before they left, and took a copy of the previous seven days of footage (this differs from the earlier description of taking Wed-Fri and returning to retrieve Mon-Tue).

The homeowners had noticed a dark four-door car driving west on OCR at 9:11am Thursday and parking on the street in front of the Sherman home. They recorded time codes and in total the man appeared to enter the house three times, for a total of 29 minutes inside the house. Finally, he returned to his car and drove off west. Others later saw the video and say it is possible the man never entered the Sherman home. (These “others” include Greenspan as noted below.)

The couple never thought to look at the Wednesday video, but thought the Thursday video was important.


Later in the book, he writes:

The family handed the security footage over to police and the private detectives but never checked it themselves to look for activity on the Wednesday, and neither the police nor the private team will say what they saw on the video.

Now an assumption from me: Greenspan spoke to KD about the Thursday footage:

Brian Greenspan, a lawyer for the Sherman family, said his private investigators have a copy of the video footage from the house and it is “inconclusive” — they cannot determine who the man is, what kind of car it is or the man’s exact movements.
“We have always been interested in (the video footage),” Greenspan said. “All I can tell you is what we see. When you try to improve on the very grainy security camera footage it pixelates. We are sort of stuck with the grainy footage.”

Greenspan was responding to questions about the Thursday visitor, not activity next door on the night of the murders. I am assuming that when KD wrote in 2019 that the private team would not say “what they saw on the video” he meant they would not tell him what they saw on Wednesday. If the now-disbanded private team is the source of this leak, that would be a shift since 2019. People leak information for their own bizarre reasons.

I do not believe the video that KD has discussed lately is taken by the same neighbour as the one that was submitted to police early on in the case. This latest camera does not capture the front of the Sherman house, and therefore the video from this latest camera would therefore not be able to capture a car parked on the road in front of the Sherman’s house, which was the subject of much discussion in the first video.
I believe the early video was taken from a camera located at the house immediately east of the house that took this later video of the two trucks arriving.

Here is a description of the coverage area of the cameras related to the latest video RBBM:
“….But a house on the south side of Old Colony did have two video cameras. That house is across from and slightly west of the Sherman home. Those cameras were pointed at the homeowner’s own driveway and lawn, but they also picked up a sliver of the west side of the Sherman property, 50 Old Colony Rd. The cameras also pick up a full view of the next-door neighbours’ house to the west…”

 

[fadedglitter]

I do not believe the video that KD has discussed lately is taken by the same neighbour as the one that was submitted to police early on in the case. This latest camera does not capture the front of the Sherman house, and therefore the video from this latest camera would therefore not be able to capture a car parked on the road in front of the Sherman’s house, which was the subject of much discussion in the first video.
I believe the early video was taken from a camera located at the house immediately east of the house that took this later video of the two trucks arriving.

Here is a description of the coverage area of the cameras related to the latest video RBBM:
“….But a house on the south side of Old Colony did have two video cameras. That house is across from and slightly west of the Sherman home. Those cameras were pointed at the homeowner’s own driveway and lawn, but they also picked up a sliver of the west side of the Sherman property, 50 Old Colony Rd. The cameras also pick up a full view of the next-door neighbours’ house to the west…”

I thought this too. I was certain, because I could not reconcile the description of the Thursday visitor with the angle KD published along with this most recent leak. I did not see, and still do not see, how the Thursday visitor could be caught on camera from this angle. Nor do I understand how the visitor’s activities could be described in such detail from this angle.

Reporter Ann Brocklehurst personally spoke with the homeowners and has confirmed both sets of footage are from the same set of cameras. Neither is from the house directly across the street from the Shermans (it does not have cameras). This significantly shook my confidence in any descriptions of the Thursday visitor.

Here’s a CTV story showing it’s the same set of cameras: Sherman family wants to demolish mansion where Toronto billionaires murdered

I think you and I are in agreement, but I heard directly from Ann a few months ago that it is the same camera, so in the intervening time I have come to accept it.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I was thinking of the more recent leak. I think the Star was given the information from the Sherman side or someone on the former Greenspan team, but I think it coming directly from the source is a possibility.

Based on the neighbourhood streets, I’d expect that Honey and Barry would have slowly passed the home with the cctv, before turning onto or leaving #50, at least twice a day—Honey likely several times.

View attachment 601523
Google map
(Old Colony is a dead-end street. The most direct route in or out is Old Colony to Bayview).

When the homeowners looked at Thursday’s and Friday’s cctv, the most glaring thing would have been the absence of Honey and Barry leaving and arriving home. Possibly noticeable was the lack of lights going on and off within the Sherman home, especially on Thursday.

That’s part of why I have a tough time believing they didn’t look at Wednesday’s cctv at any point until now. But I’ll take it as a MSM fact of the case that they have said they didn’t look at Wednesday’s footage.

^^ my views only

A couple of things come to mind,

It was a very cold dark windy snowy night on that Wed. Most were not outside or out front of the homes. It was bitter weather if outside most wanted to get inside hoods up face covered and fast, not looking around.

These homes are gigantic, maybe lights off in the front area are normal when only two people live in the home.

The Sherman home was concrete and not built with any view into the home from the street.

The Sherman’s travel, no movement at this time of year could be normal.

I am curious why anyone would think LE are the least intelligent people who would not look at the Wed video if they ask for 7 days of video, they know they were murdered on the Wed and have video of that day. Just because they do not share information we assume they are less intelligent and did not do things we would expect? We are all human and mistakes / overlooking or misunderstanding do happen but I have way more confidence that they are looking at everything.

Also IMO newspaper articles are written to excite us, wording is changed to give interest, I think it becomes story telling and not a recap of the actual facts.

More IMO, how much does KD actually know, did he just learn of the 2 cars next door years later. Or held onto that info and shared when nothing else to talk about.

If the Greenspan team knew about the cars early evening visit next door and nothing has come of it, I doubt they are part of this case. Of course unless they know the culprit and are holding onto it for a defence if ever an arrest is made.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I thought this too. I was certain, because I could not reconcile the description of the Thursday visitor with the angle KD published along with this most recent leak. I did not see, and still do not see, how the Thursday visitor could be caught on camera from this angle. Nor do I understand how the visitor’s activities could be described in such detail from this angle.

Reporter Ann Brocklehurst personally spoke with the homeowners and has confirmed both sets of footage are from the same set of cameras. Neither is from the house directly across the street from the Shermans (it does not have cameras). This significantly shook my confidence in any descriptions of the Thursday visitor.

Here’s a CTV story showing it’s the same set of cameras: Sherman family wants to demolish mansion where Toronto billionaires murdered

I think you and I are in agreement, but I heard directly from Ann a few months ago that it is the same camera, so in the intervening time I have come to accept it.

Was this the camera that caught the Night Walker too?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I was thinking of the more recent leak. I think the Star was given the information from the Sherman side or someone on the former Greenspan team, but I think it coming directly from the source is a possibility.

Based on the neighbourhood streets, I’d expect that Honey and Barry would have slowly passed the home with the cctv, before turning onto or leaving #50, at least twice a day—Honey likely several times.

View attachment 601523
Google map
(Old Colony is a dead-end street. The most direct route in or out is Old Colony to Bayview).

When the homeowners looked at Thursday’s and Friday’s cctv, the most glaring thing would have been the absence of Honey and Barry leaving and arriving home. Possibly noticeable was the lack of lights going on and off within the Sherman home, especially on Thursday.

That’s part of why I have a tough time believing they didn’t look at Wednesday’s cctv at any point until now. But I’ll take it as a MSM fact of the case that they have said they didn’t look at Wednesday’s footage.

^^ my views only

A few things about the video footage reporting.

Reports from neighbors are that LE were taking too long to collect video evidence, that it would disappear. Really you can take a copy of it and save it then why let it just override if you think you have important information they need to see make a copy and give it when they ask for it.

Those reports make little logical sense for me.

LE said it took years to go through thousands of hours of video, cross reference the videos and contact the people in the videos.

Why do we still get information making it seem as if no one looked at all the video possible.

With todays technology, very little is truly deleted and lost forever, some cloud host somewhere will have trace details and video can be found.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

A few things about the video footage reporting.

Reports from neighbors are that LE were taking too long to collect video evidence, that it would disappear. Really you can take a copy of it and save it then why let it just override if you think you have important information they need to see make a copy and give it when they ask for it.

Those reports make little logical sense for me.

LE said it took years to go through thousands of hours of video, cross reference the videos and contact the people in the videos.

Why do we still get information making it seem as if no one looked at all the video possible.

With todays technology, very little is truly deleted and lost forever, some cloud host somewhere will have trace details and video can be found.

I don’t know if you followed the Karen Read case in Massachusetts. The footage from a camera at the library in town would have shown her car drive past at a certain time. The person in charge of the video was asked for it by the cops and he sent it to them. The library tape overwrites after 30 days. Unfortunately critical information was deleted after it was in the possession of police and by the time the defence found out, the tape was overwritten because 30 days had passed. I don’t think this is unusual with cameras.

 

[fadedglitter]

Was this the camera that caught the Night Walker too?

We don’t know which camera(s) on OCR caught the night walker. We only know about the one on Ballantyne. The ITOs contain numerous redacted images of the person but no indication of how many cameras captured the person coming or going.