Canada, Greenland, Mexico, etc - USA Tariffs / Trade War commencing March 2025 #4

[Lyanna]

You’ll either think I’ve drunk some bizarre kool-aid or you’ll see things a little differently by the time you finish reading this. Have fun! Apologies for the length.

The economy is suddenly a hot mess. This is not happening by accident or because Trump is stupid about tariffs (he is). Follow the money. Who benefits when the economy collapses? The billionaires who can buy up failed businesses cheap. This is planned destruction of the economy, educational system, federal bureaucracy, courts, etc so an autocracy can be put in place. Trump is surrounded by people who are moving things in that direction. “Move fast and break things.”

Look at the people who are involved. Do a little digging into J.D. Vance, his mentor Peter Thiel who financed his Senate campaign and introduced him to Trump.

JD Vance owes almost everything to Peter Thiel, a pro-Trump billionaire and "New Right" ideologue

Peter Thiel has been supporting Trump's newly selected running mate since before he entered politics

www.salon.com

Their beliefs echo those of Curtis Yarvin, a philosophical force in Silicon Valley. More names…David Sacks, Trump’s AI and crypto czar. Marc Andreessen—And while Andreessen’s role in the Trump White House is unofficial, The Washington Post reported in January 2025 that the executive “has been quietly and successfully recruiting candidates for positions across Trump’s Washington.” And of course we can’t forget Elon Musk. These tech bros are all intertwined and are seeking power.

This short Time Magazine article provides an introduction and is quite unnerving.

What We Must Understand About the Dark Enlightenment Movement

The “Dark Enlightenment” movement and Curtis Yarvin have curried favor with tech executives in recent years, writes Ed Simon.

time.com

Quoting:
Yarvin has become a kind of official philosopher for tech leaders like PayPal cofounder Peter Thiel and Mosaic founder Marc Andreessen. Not unlike the Futurists, Yarvin advocates for replacing democracy with a kind of techno-feudal state—for the government to be run like a corporation, with the president as its “CEO.” This new system is elitist—“humans fit into dominance-submission structures” Yarvin wrote in 2008; and it’s authoritarian—“If Americans want to change their government, they’re going to have to get over their dictator phobia,” he said in 2012. There are shades of Yarvin’s philosophy in Thiel’s 2009 essay for the Cato Institute, where he wrote “I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible.”
——————-
I know it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, but there are a lot of smart people writing about tnis.

Rachel Maddow— Rachel Maddow sounds alarm on JD Vance's pro-dictatorship influences

'Reboot' Revealed: Elon Musk's CEO-Dictator Playbook

In 2022, one of Peter Thiel's favorite thinkers envisioned a second Trump Administration in which the federal government would be run by a “CEO”

www.thenerdreich.com

We are witnessing the methodical implementation of a long-planned strategy to transform American democracy into corporate autocracy. The playbook was written in plain sight and is now being followed step by step. Some dismiss the Yarvins of the world as unhinged nuts, but that's the point. These guys, with their bizarre and dangerous ideas, have gotten very far in 2025. Just look at the news.

Yarvin pitched his vision as a fictional or unlikely scenario. Unfortunately, it now appears to be our new reality. The press's failure to connect these dots isn't just a journalistic oversight — it's a critical missed warning about the systematicdismantling of democratic governance. By the time most Americans understand what's happening, the "reboot" – the destruction of government – may already be complete.

Paul Krugman is Wrong

Why don't liberal pundits understand what's happening?

danielpinchbeck.substack.com

One of the main architects of this descent into chaos is Peter Thiel. Thiel, along with his network of billionaire fellow travelers deeply embedded in the tech and crypto world, are among the key beneficiaries of Trump-era chaos. While Trump himself seems to act impulsively and without clear vision, he is actually the perfect instrument: A battering ram opening the gates for a new elite order and the fleecing of the U.S. populace who will no longer have functional institutions to protect them from fraud or corruption. The unpredictability of Trump’s tariffs make them even more effective weapons for weakening the foundations of liberal capitalism

JMO

That's a scary future there if that is what's happening.
America is doomed.
(Really enjoyed reading your post )

Moo

 

[Kudzuu]

Protest 3-5 downtown.

We are in so much debt because of tax cuts that benefit the wealthy who get richer and richer and cut services to the working class to pay for the tax cuts. MOO. Supposedly the tax breaks from the wealthy will trickle down. I'm still waiting to feel the trickle.....40 long years.

 

[otto]

It is very unfortunate for the USA that Trump put a very delicate operation in the rabbity hands of 41st United States Secretary of Commerce. Howard Lutnik.,.. if ever a clever guy was needed in this position, it is now. .. a real handicap with Lutnik in the drivers seat.... an example of the IQ level at the Commerce section...

I like that! The USA is trying to force other countries to lower their standards, not just food standards but also societal standards, to match low standards in the USA.

People in the USA should demand higher standards, then international trade would be easier for the USA.

 

[acutename]

have wondered who benefits from tariffs- US beer and shrimpers, apparently:

These American industries stand to benefit from Trump’s tariffs

While some businesses are panicked about the high prices that could result from the steep tariffs President Trump imposed on virtually all nations, several U.S. industries welcome the new levies.

www.washingtontimes.com

 

[acutename]

and toilet paper is a necessity.. .... one could argue coffee is a choice, but not the TP

actually for some people, a day without coffee would not start...

 

[acutename]

https://thehill.com/business/5233534-consumers-shopping-donald-trump-tariff-prices/

Shopping spree? Consumers rush to buy goods ahead of Trump tariffs​

yes- this will look like a plus in the statistics.... for awhile

 

[iamshadow21]

have wondered who benefits from tariffs- US beer and shrimpers, apparently:

These American industries stand to benefit from Trump’s tariffs

While some businesses are panicked about the high prices that could result from the steep tariffs President Trump imposed on virtually all nations, several U.S. industries welcome the new levies.

www.washingtontimes.com

Not all brewers - an article I linked to earlier was about a small brewer who suddenly, after over ten years of business with their supplier, was unable to get glass bottles. Big breweries, concerned about the tariffs affecting the price of aluminium, switched to glass overnight, and smaller companies needing glass were left out in the cold.

MOO

 

[acutename]

As it happened: Donald Trump's tour of the Middle East

Donald Trump is heading back to the US after his Middle East tour. Recap the latest developments and listen to Trump 100 below as you scroll.

news.sky.com

• protests against trump planned in every US state today
• netanyahu (israels PM) will be the first foreign leader to discuss the tariffs in person with trump, on monday

question to the americans in this thread, are you planning to stock up on goods and/or protest today?

am praying that my old refrigerator does not give out during this administration- last time I price checked, they seemed to costly even then

 

[acutename]

Stephen Miran is an economist who now chairs Trump’s Council of Economic Advisers.

He published a paper back in November 2024 called "A User’s Guide to Restructuring the Global Trading System".

It seems to be the playbook for what is going on (which I discovered by reading the below linked article in The Atlantic). By playbook I don't mean the 'method' of the tariffs, but the concept.


It is a very risky strategy, which Stephen Miran admits in the conclusion of his paper ....
There is a path by which the Trump Administration can reconfigure the global trading and financial systems to America’s benefit, but it is narrow, and will require careful planning, precise execution, and attention to steps to minimize adverse consequences.

The Atlantic article also highlights the risks ......
Even the core premise underlying the theory—that a weaker dollar is the key to reviving American manufacturing—is shaky at best. Almost every rich country, not just America, has seen a sharp manufacturing decline in recent decades, suggesting that the trend is about much more than the relative strength or weakness of a single currency.

“It’s one thing if a plan makes sense in theory but not in practice,” Steven Kamin, an economist at the American Enterprise Institute and the former director of the Division of International Finance at the Federal Reserve, told me. “This one doesn’t even add up in theory.”


This is The Atlantic article - which is a much easier read than Stephen Miran's long paper.
The Wild Trump Theory Making the Rounds on Wall Street - QAnon for tariffs

This is Stephen Miran's paper.
A User’s Guide to Restructuring the Global Trading System

note to Pres: please experiment on a small subset not with all of our lives

 

[iamshadow21]

yes- this will look like a plus in the statistics.... for awhile

It's going to sink like a stone. People are going to panic buy because other people are panic buying. And rather than hand sanitiser and toilet paper, it's going to be everything.

And it's not just the US. Partner and I have been discussing buying an Apple tablet for her for a couple of years. We can't really afford it this moment, due to just paying for our annual registration for our car, but we're seriously considering emptying our meagre savings because there's a good chance the price is going to go up sharply. And if we're doing it, pensioners in Australia, then millions of others are going to be doing it, too.

MOO

 

[acutename]

A quote from the article -

“I suppose one way to induce the Fed to lower rates would be to crash the economy but that seems in line with the viewpoint among the mercantilists in this administration, that crashing our economy is a way to solve the trade deficit. If Americans can no longer afford to buy goods and services it does solve the trade deficit. I’m kind of at a loss for words."

We seem to be at the 'in order to liberate the village it became necessary to destroy it' stage.

he is 78 yrs old and has all the diet coke and golf he needs.
Everyone else is miserable? Oh well.

 

[Herat]

Let's not forget -

This is about China and Canada pushing fentanyl into the US.

Isn't it?

 

[303gmf]

You’ll either think I’ve drunk some bizarre kool-aid or you’ll see things a little differently by the time you finish reading this. Have fun! Apologies for the length.

The economy is suddenly a hot mess. This is not happening by accident or because Trump is stupid about tariffs (he is). Follow the money. Who benefits when the economy collapses? The billionaires who can buy up failed businesses cheap. This is planned destruction of the economy, educational system, federal bureaucracy, courts, etc so an autocracy can be put in place. Trump is surrounded by people who are moving things in that direction. “Move fast and break things.”

Look at the people who are involved. Do a little digging into J.D. Vance, his mentor Peter Thiel who financed his Senate campaign and introduced him to Trump.

JD Vance owes almost everything to Peter Thiel, a pro-Trump billionaire and "New Right" ideologue

Peter Thiel has been supporting Trump's newly selected running mate since before he entered politics

www.salon.com

Their beliefs echo those of Curtis Yarvin, a philosophical force in Silicon Valley. More names…David Sacks, Trump’s AI and crypto czar. Marc Andreessen—And while Andreessen’s role in the Trump White House is unofficial, The Washington Post reported in January 2025 that the executive “has been quietly and successfully recruiting candidates for positions across Trump’s Washington.” And of course we can’t forget Elon Musk. These tech bros are all intertwined and are seeking power.

This short Time Magazine article provides an introduction and is quite unnerving.

What We Must Understand About the Dark Enlightenment Movement

The “Dark Enlightenment” movement and Curtis Yarvin have curried favor with tech executives in recent years, writes Ed Simon.

time.com

Quoting:
Yarvin has become a kind of official philosopher for tech leaders like PayPal cofounder Peter Thiel and Mosaic founder Marc Andreessen. Not unlike the Futurists, Yarvin advocates for replacing democracy with a kind of techno-feudal state—for the government to be run like a corporation, with the president as its “CEO.” This new system is elitist—“humans fit into dominance-submission structures” Yarvin wrote in 2008; and it’s authoritarian—“If Americans want to change their government, they’re going to have to get over their dictator phobia,” he said in 2012. There are shades of Yarvin’s philosophy in Thiel’s 2009 essay for the Cato Institute, where he wrote “I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible.”
BBM
——————-
I know it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, but there are a lot of smart people writing about tnis.

Rachel Maddow— Rachel Maddow sounds alarm on JD Vance's pro-dictatorship influences

'Reboot' Revealed: Elon Musk's CEO-Dictator Playbook

In 2022, one of Peter Thiel's favorite thinkers envisioned a second Trump Administration in which the federal government would be run by a “CEO”

www.thenerdreich.com

We are witnessing the methodical implementation of a long-planned strategy to transform American democracy into corporate autocracy. The playbook was written in plain sight and is now being followed step by step. Some dismiss the Yarvins of the world as unhinged nuts, but that's the point. These guys, with their bizarre and dangerous ideas, have gotten very far in 2025. Just look at the news.
BBM
Yarvin pitched his vision as a fictional or unlikely scenario. Unfortunately, it now appears to be our new reality. The press's failure to connect these dots isn't just a journalistic oversight — it's a critical missed warning about the systematicdismantling of democratic governance. By the time most Americans understand what's happening, the "reboot" – the destruction of government – may already be complete.
bbm

Paul Krugman is Wrong

Why don't liberal pundits understand what's happening?

danielpinchbeck.substack.com

One of the main architects of this descent into chaos is Peter Thiel. Thiel, along with his network of billionaire fellow travelers deeply embedded in the tech and crypto world, are among the key beneficiaries of Trump-era chaos. While Trump himself seems to act impulsively and without clear vision, he is actually the perfect instrument: A battering ram opening the gates for a new elite order and the fleecing of the U.S. populace who will no longer have functional institutions to protect them from fraud or corruption. The unpredictability of Trump’s tariffs make them even more effective weapons for weakening the foundations of liberal capitalism
BBM
JMO

No kool aid here, reading much of the same!

 

[otto]

Let's not forget -

This is about China and Canada pushing fentanyl into the US.

Isn't it?

False premise on which to build a global war. The government had many opportunities to stop this. They knew it was a false premise, but they let it slide.

Trump relies on trying to get away with something small. When that works, he escalates a little bit, inching forward until he's all in. That's predictable.

Each time Trump could have and should have been stopped, the government let it slide. Today, some in the government seem surprised. Suddenly they want to do something, but it's far too late. Predictably, we knew that the USA would not react until it was impossible to stop. Here we are.

"And on a day that the stock market was melting down, and U.S. relationships were in shambles, and the world was talking about retaliating, here's another telling sign ...

The story barely rated a mention anywhere on the Fox News website Friday afternoon, and only occasionally came up on its TV network. It wasn't hard to tell who saw this issue as a political winner Friday. And who didn't."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/tariffs-political-fallout-1.7502562

 

[Cedars]

Why tax vehicles a second time when tariffs have already been collected.

Your post reminded me of this:

Canada, with many other countries, has a federal tax on goods and services (elsewhere called a VAT) - 5% - only groceries/rent are exempt, I think. Low-income people get some money back.

We still have income taxes, but the theory is that the people who spend more, pay more. It's not manipulated according to the origin of the goods.

I guess the whole idea of consumption taxes is verboten in the US? But that's what the tariffs are...

When the GST was introduced in 1991, it was 7% but Canada was in a debt crisis, so there wasn't too much drama about it.

One thing about the US, the rest of the world is happy to buy their bonds, which essentially means loaning money to finance the US debt. No one, at this stage, is going to call in those loans and the US gets cheap rates. But that's the advantage of being the world's currency reserve.

JMO

 

[Snoopster]

am praying that my old refrigerator does not give out during this administration- last time I price checked, they seemed to costly even then

my car lease is coming up next month and my spouse's old vehicle is on its last legs...not a great position to be in. oops. Of course many, many people are in much, much worse shape, so this is a small concern in the grand scheme of things. It's the people living day-to-day financially who I really worry about. Imagine the stress. And Frump doesn't give a crap about everyday people.

 

[Lyanna]

Regulating Imports with a Reciprocal Tariff to Rectify Trade Practices that Contribute to Large and Persistent Annual United States Goods Trade Deficits

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency

www.whitehouse.gov

It's a long read, but for once Biden is mentioned with out being called Crooked.

Moo

 

[Cedars]

You’ll either think I’ve drunk some bizarre kool-aid or you’ll see things a little differently by the time you finish reading this. Have fun! Apologies for the length.

The economy is suddenly a hot mess. This is not happening by accident or because Trump is stupid about tariffs (he is). Follow the money. Who benefits when the economy collapses? The billionaires who can buy up failed businesses cheap. This is planned destruction of the economy, educational system, federal bureaucracy, courts, etc so an autocracy can be put in place. Trump is surrounded by people who are moving things in that direction. “Move fast and break things.”

Look at the people who are involved. Do a little digging into J.D. Vance, his mentor Peter Thiel who financed his Senate campaign and introduced him to Trump.

JD Vance owes almost everything to Peter Thiel, a pro-Trump billionaire and "New Right" ideologue

Peter Thiel has been supporting Trump's newly selected running mate since before he entered politics

www.salon.com

Their beliefs echo those of Curtis Yarvin, a philosophical force in Silicon Valley. More names…David Sacks, Trump’s AI and crypto czar. Marc Andreessen—And while Andreessen’s role in the Trump White House is unofficial, The Washington Post reported in January 2025 that the executive “has been quietly and successfully recruiting candidates for positions across Trump’s Washington.” And of course we can’t forget Elon Musk. These tech bros are all intertwined and are seeking power.

This short Time Magazine article provides an introduction and is quite unnerving.

What We Must Understand About the Dark Enlightenment Movement

The “Dark Enlightenment” movement and Curtis Yarvin have curried favor with tech executives in recent years, writes Ed Simon.

time.com

Quoting:
Yarvin has become a kind of official philosopher for tech leaders like PayPal cofounder Peter Thiel and Mosaic founder Marc Andreessen. Not unlike the Futurists, Yarvin advocates for replacing democracy with a kind of techno-feudal state—for the government to be run like a corporation, with the president as its “CEO.” This new system is elitist—“humans fit into dominance-submission structures” Yarvin wrote in 2008; and it’s authoritarian—“If Americans want to change their government, they’re going to have to get over their dictator phobia,” he said in 2012. There are shades of Yarvin’s philosophy in Thiel’s 2009 essay for the Cato Institute, where he wrote “I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible.”
BBM
——————-
I know it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, but there are a lot of smart people writing about tnis.

Rachel Maddow— Rachel Maddow sounds alarm on JD Vance's pro-dictatorship influences

'Reboot' Revealed: Elon Musk's CEO-Dictator Playbook

In 2022, one of Peter Thiel's favorite thinkers envisioned a second Trump Administration in which the federal government would be run by a “CEO”

www.thenerdreich.com

We are witnessing the methodical implementation of a long-planned strategy to transform American democracy into corporate autocracy. The playbook was written in plain sight and is now being followed step by step. Some dismiss the Yarvins of the world as unhinged nuts, but that's the point. These guys, with their bizarre and dangerous ideas, have gotten very far in 2025. Just look at the news.
BBM
Yarvin pitched his vision as a fictional or unlikely scenario. Unfortunately, it now appears to be our new reality. The press's failure to connect these dots isn't just a journalistic oversight — it's a critical missed warning about the systematicdismantling of democratic governance. By the time most Americans understand what's happening, the "reboot" – the destruction of government – may already be complete.
bbm

Paul Krugman is Wrong

Why don't liberal pundits understand what's happening?

danielpinchbeck.substack.com

One of the main architects of this descent into chaos is Peter Thiel. Thiel, along with his network of billionaire fellow travelers deeply embedded in the tech and crypto world, are among the key beneficiaries of Trump-era chaos. While Trump himself seems to act impulsively and without clear vision, he is actually the perfect instrument: A battering ram opening the gates for a new elite order and the fleecing of the U.S. populace who will no longer have functional institutions to protect them from fraud or corruption. The unpredictability of Trump’s tariffs make them even more effective weapons for weakening the foundations of liberal capitalism
BBM
JMO

I don't think it's koolaid, but I wouldn't focus too much on the idea of conspiracy. IMO, many people wish they could eliminate those who disagree with them, and take permanent control. It's what crime is all about.

It's happened or is happening in other democratic countries eg Venezuala (coming from the left wing) and Hungary (coming from the right-wing). Poland, South Korea have had a brush with it. Blooming in Turkey, finally defeated in Syria. And so it goes, round and round.

Apparently, the American founders were quite aware of the possibility (since it was the first democracy since ancient Greece), and apparently wrote the Constitution to prevent authoritarianism from taking hold.

Just my personal opinion, but I think many people, in various ways, have become complacent about what they have, and focus more on the imperfections that divide people...

In Canada, we have been jolted out of this by Trump and look more to what unites us. So the question now is - Will the US?

JMO

 

[Cedars]

am praying that my old refrigerator does not give out during this administration- last time I price checked, they seemed to costly even then

We need those people who used to fix things. Old refrigerators are simple and should be repairable. Whereas a new fridge is probably digital (with AI) and won't be ...

JMO

 

[Bree1950]

Secretary of Commerce Lutnik says America is the greatest and the US growth rate will supercharge.

He says we will bring back 5 millions jobs in manufacturing and boost our economy, And then he says it will be with robotics.

ROBOTICS? So are the 5 million jobs going to be 5 million robots doing the jobs or 5 million human beings in the manufacturing plants that aren't yet budgeted, or planned, or zoned, or built. Heck, the products these manufacturing plants are ALWAYS going to be cheaper overseas. We always have huge differences in pay for jobs compared to overseas.

And let's be very clear - No one in the US Government has addressed providing healthcare, in an environment where medical supplies, pharmaceuticals, and such will be increasing in cost, if there are not full-on shortages. Hitting Ireland, Switzerland, and India for pharmaceuticals is beyond short-sighted.

Lutnik is a pompom carrying cheerleader for Trump who is likely the one that Trump will blame when it all falls apart. His days in his $25 million Washington DC mansion are numbered.

We have to rebuild the manufacturing plants and tool equipment first. I read this will take about 10 years.