Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #10

[Herat]

When they showed up in Split Lake they needed gas and bought $20 worth.

The RAV4 has a fuel efficiency of about 8L per 100 km. If gas was e.g., $1.25/L they would have been able to travel about 200 kms on $20, which would put them where the RAV4 was found. They surely did run out of gas and decide to torch the abandoned vehicle.

With no sightings outside of/since Gillam, they are surely in the bush somewhere without supplies.

But why chose a miserable death from exposure, hunger, bug bites when you could just surrender?

Or even suicide with a manifesto left to explain their world?

Edited to add: Considering they are two healthy young men, I don't think they would have died after only a week out in the bush. The train tracks are right there, and that would be a natural conduit farther into the bush. If they are out that way, I predict they'll be found somewhere in the vicinity of the train tracks, less than 100 km from where the rail line turns from Amway.

However, I though the purported sighting in York Landing at the dump made perfect sense to me. I have't excluded them traveling farther west on this trajectory, following a bush road or the train line.

I just don't think this is over, yet, and I wouldn't exclude a future scenario of death by police

 

[Gina20]

I apologize right off the bat here for going over old ground, but I'm trying to get something clear in my mind and I can't find the posts on these 10 threads and 500+ pages of comments. Please help me out here or at least set me straight that it's irrelevant:

RCMP announce on July 23 that KM and BS are suspects, are fleeing and provide photos of them from the day before in Saskatchewan in the Co-op and we're to assume in that grainy Rav4. That is, they were seen a day before they were suspects and the RCMP were notified.

I don't believe an employee called the RCMP about these two in Meadow Lake, because at that time they were just two teens missing from two provinces away.

There had been speculation on here that perhaps the two had used stolen credit or debit cards and that triggered an alert of their use at the Co-op and notified LE. I don't see them buying anything in this video.

If a traffic/red light camera caught the Rav4 speeding and snapped a shot of the plate and that's how RCMP were alerted, that implies LE knew the plate number and registered owner of the Rav4 days before they announced the identity of LD.

Can someone help me understand how RCMP might have become aware of this stop in Meadow Lake and have the video footage before most of Canada knew about these two as suspects? If they had this video/information 20 hours earlier than the announcement that BS and KM were suspects in three murders, might that have made a difference?

Maybe it doesn't even matter, but I'm curious simply from an investigative viewpoint and wanting to make sure no leaps/cognitive bias is leaking into thought process here...or by LE for that matter.

Just a thought, the RCMP did not know the identity of LD for some time, so his vehicle and bank card use would not have been noticed in the beginning, if these were used.

Another thought, how common are tap cards in small northern towns? Even in cities, they're not everywhere. Without a PIN, they'd not be able to use cards in some places. Swipe machines don't exist any more here, to my knowledge.

Canadians are very much fans of cashless transactions. I know no one, especially in this generation, who carries around much money. Often it's just a few coins for a shopping cart.

 

[modernpenny]

A photo I havent seen of KM yet for any interested

 

[jpo74]

Most likely they are dead... rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible, pushing up the daisies and yada yada. That's why they won't show up on thermal imaging... too cold.

correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought TI could also pick up decomposing bodies?

 

[SiciC]

But why chose a miserable death from exposure, hunger, bug bites when you could just surrender?

Agree. This is the question I think everyone is asking. Maybe they have too much pride to just give up. Maybe they had another plan after Gillam. It could be anything at this point. If they are in the woods and have been since burning out the SUV, they're probably starving to death and dehydrated. Prison would be so much more preferable to that... 3 meals a day, clean clothes, shelter.... I think it's likely they planned on going out like this, and might've commit suicide somehow. But of course then there would be bodies somewhere... Who knows?
Jmo

 

[jpo74]

Nope. Literally no confirmed anything since Monday the 22nd.

Imho, I think their both deceased

 

[Deleted member 158085]

They twitted the same article and people are asking for sources too.
GardaWorld Crisis24 on Twitter

You can have your website set up to auto-post to twitter or Facebook when updates go out. I suspect it was a pre-prepared post that accidentally got posted and then unfortunately tweeted.

 

[SiciC]

Imho, I think their both deceased

That seems more and more likely every day. I think if they were found alive in the woods suddenly at this point it would be very surprising. Or alive anywhere really.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

It's got to be frustrating for LE that witness statements are changing every time they talk to the media (or so it seems to me they are changing). You got the guy in Cold Water, the band members who checked their car when coming to Split Lake, and the Bear Clan members who were at York Landing. They're not big changes, but they seem like important details. I think the only sighting that has remained consistent is the young lady who works at the gas station in Split Creek.

With the check point at Split Creek they've said that BS & KM had camping supplies and maps, then it's two boxes and a suit. Are they planning to survive in the wilderness, or are they planning something dressy? I feel like knowing what was actually in the car would be helpful in trying to figure out what they were planning after ditching the Rav.

As much respect as I have for the members of Bear Clan, it's hard to trust their sighting when they can't even stick to what they say the two people they spotted were wearing. First it's said the two individuals were wearing the same clothing as seen in Meadow Lake SK, then it's a camo top and a gray sweatshirt. I was really hoping they'd be found when that sighting was made, but hearing the changing stories it's understandable why LE pulled out from YL to continue searching elsewhere.

These aren’t witness statements. They are chit chat with journalists, in some cases recalling events well after the fact.

The RCMP undoubtedly have actual witness statements from, or interview notes with, these people, but these certainly aren’t going to be made public. The content of the real Bear Clan witness statements may well be one of the reasons why the RCMP decided that the “sighting” couldn’t be verified.

 

[Gina20]

If they had a manifesto, it may be out there in the gaming world. This may be why the Public Safety Minister intervened. Speculation and MOO. I wouldn't expect a suicide note.

 

[FactFinder3000]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/first-nation-constable-stopped-homicide-suspects-1.5230779

Contrary to previous media reports, Saunders said he didn't notice any maps or camping gear in the vehicle — just two boxes and a suit.
"I didn't see no camping gear, no maps, no weapons, no drugs or alcohol."

Yes, it was somebody else who said that Saunders saw survival gear and maps. He was clearly mistaken, since Saunders has clearly stated that he did not see those things. This should be a non-issue at this point. Saunders saw two boxes and a suit. Period.

 

[Kubirai]

Time of death of Dr Leonard Dyck can be aligned with the time that the suspects' truck was burning, so maybe be an hour earlier?
...
They are not "merely" suspects in the gun violence shooting of Fowler and Deese, they are suspects who should not be approached, call police immediately. The evidence pans out, just not trial by media.

Body of Leonard Dyck was discovered 2km south of the still burning red truck/camper.

So KM/BS may have started walking towards the popular Stikine forest lookout AFTER starting the fire.

Otherwise, they would have to drive there, murder him, come back with both vehicles, etc.

I am disturbed by the attempts to paint the cold-blooded murder of Prof. Dyck as an unfortunate accident.

 

[SiciC]

Yes, it was somebody else who said that Saunders saw survival gear and maps. He was clearly mistaken, since Saunders has clearly stated that he did not see those things. This should be a non-issue at this point. Saunders saw two boxes and a suit. Period.

I do wonder what was in those boxes though.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think these two teens have been severely underestimated. Based on news reports, their vehicle was stopped by a First Nations safety officer in Manitoba Split Lake (July 22nd). Upon search, the safety officer stated in an interview that there were a “couple of boxes in the back”, as well as survival gear and maps. The teens were heading towards Gillam, as also stated in the interview. Gillam is an obvious rural town with minimal roadways. The road they were driving on comes to a dead end. Considering they had maps, they must have known this. Yet, out of all places to go & hide they chose Gillam? Additionally, they decided to burn their only means of transportation without any effort of concealment, and just run into the forest? I don’t think so. They boys are obviously not that intelligent seeing as they committed 3 “random” acts of murders, yet they have managed to evade RCMP, police, military, and citizens along with all the drones, aircraft, and technology that comes with it. They must receive some credit for carrying on this manhunt for almost 2 weeks now. My point is, they had maps and survival gear, thus I can only assume that their locations of travel & actions (burning their vehicle) are premeditated and planned out. Although it is possible they could be dead somewhere in the vast Canadian wilderness, part of me would rather see them alive so that we can get answers & motive in this interesting case. However, my condolences are with the families of the murder victims, justice must be served.

I wonder what specifically was the “survival gear” because nobody has ever said. That encompasses virtually everything of use outdoors including a tent. I am sceptical the two brought survival gear along in their truck and camper from Port Alberni or why would’ve they needed a camper in northern BC where roughing it is far more of an attraction than in northern Manitoba.

I think any survival gear belonged to LD and it was left in the RAV4 to give the appearance the two were on a vacation, in case they got stopped. I think their only plan was to stay one step ahead of LE and they were too foolish and naive to know that little places marked on a map in the north country are not the safe havens they thought they’d find. An example of “in over their heads” is they reportedly drove right through the check stop on the reserve, not understanding that dry reserves check for alcohol....although the name “Split Lake” indeed appears on a map.

 

[Kubirai]

I thought the First Nations police fellow amended the report to say just two boxes and a suit (no maps or gear).

Multiple small propane tanks fell out of the burnt RAV4 when it was turned upside down.

Leonard Dyck would have carried detailed paper maps and lots of camping gear.

 

[Moriarty]

Agree. This is the question I think everyone is asking. Maybe they have too much pride to just give up. Maybe they had another plan after Gillam. It could be anything at this point. If they are in the woods and have been since burning out the SUV, they're probably starving to death and dehydrated. Prison would be so much more preferable to that... 3 meals a day, clean clothes, shelter.... I think it's likely they planned on going out like this, and might've commit suicide somehow. But of course then there would be bodies somewhere... Who knows?
Jmo

Another possibility, if that sighting in York Landing is indeed false, the two of them in their narcissistic teenage brains think they are survivalists and run off into the woods near Fox Lake reserve and get lost. They wander deeper and deeper into the wilds until they die. Maybe they can't surrender now even if they wanted to. JMO

 

[10ofRods]

I do wonder what was in those boxes though.

Also be interesting to know what type of boxes (those big plastic ones that many people use to organize camping stuff?)

Anyway, those boxes had better contain backpacks, at a minimum. If there was less stuff in the RAV4 than when Prof Dyck was driving it (unknown, right?) then they sorted through and downsized to what they thought they'd need.

When the RAV4 was burned, there were tinned sardines, small propane containers, etc. still on scene (so we know some of the contents of the boxes, I guess).

I wonder if this citizens' patrol at Split Lake was 24/7. Could they have gone back through Split Lake at night without being noticed? Was it every day of the week or only on high travel days?

 

[Gardenista]

Military pulling out of search for B.C. homicide suspects in northern Manitoba, RCMP say

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mani...-of-search-for-bc-fugitives-1.5231687?cmp=rss

 

[steelybird]

if you watch this video on youtube you can slow it down.
yes, bs takes black item out -maybe gloves
k then mouths using his tongue two times
slow down the video

I think they definitely stole something--the way they walked the perimeter of the store and looked down every aisle...sauntering along almost too casually... My opinion is BS stole something and KM was the lookout. Who knows what they stole but they both kinda had that smug albeit brief "oh boy we got away with it" look on their faces as the exited the store. I hate to admit this here but it's super familiar to me because I've done it before. Many many years ago of course.

 

[Gina20]

From July 20 CTV news, posted in media thread:

"Witnesses who spoke with the couple Sunday said their camper van had broken down but they declined help.

The couple told people they thought the engine had flooded and they’d be able to wait a while and then start the van and carry on.

Monday morning they were found dead.

“It still doesn’t seem real,” said Chynna’s mother Sheila Deese. “Chynna travelled so much for the last year and a half. But she always came home so I’m still hoping.”

According to the Deese family, the couple met while travelling in Europe and forged a love story over the last two years.

They had already toured much of North America, as well as Colombia and Peru.
...

As the investigation unfolds, electronic signs on the Alaska Highway urge drivers to share dash cam video with the RCMP.

...

RCMP remain tight-lipped about the investigation but say nothing indicates the homicides are linked to other crimes. They don’t believe there are heightened risks to public safety
"

Yep. The danger was played down, held back, or underestimated if you will. When people are told by police that there is no heightened risk to public safety, they tend to believe it. This will be an issue in the fall sitting of parliament. I guarantee it.

ETA: I am curious to know when the information hit the electronic signs...after BS and KM went for free cups of coffee? TY for that.