Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[Herat]

bears eat a lot of bones. A bear ate a man a few years ago and they found his cell phone, with a picture of the bear, and bite marks on it. So, the bear might leave shoes, clothing bits, but I would not count on finding bone, necessarily. (my inexpert opinion)

Bear kill and eat deer and there are always bones left around that other critters get to.

I believe they don't consume all the bones or hide and the skeleton is dispersed by other carnivores or carrion feeders.

 

[Xyzzia]

BBM

I have actually wondered about his suit that he apparently bought and how hard it might have been to scrounge up one that fit him.

I don't think he is 125 lbs but I do think he is very skinny for his height and probably not 170. He looks like he's kind of built like a noodle. I have never bought a men's suit (though I have plenty of frustrating experiences of trying to buy women's clothes for myself and my oddball size), but I imagine his height alone would mean he might have trouble finding one easily, with his skinny frame being another difficulty even if he wasn't so tall.

I don't know what his motivation was for buying the suit, but I can imagine he put a fair amount of effort into acquiring one. That or it probably fits him very poorly.

He may have bought it for his graduation. Maybe he had a hot date? Maybe she turned him down. maybe he turned him down. Everything is hypothetical... Everything is a theory... Hopefully soon we'll have some information. But I don't think the police are going to give us too much. Especially if these two guys are dead .we.. may not get any.

 

[NJSleuth91]

BBM

I have actually wondered about his suit that he apparently bought and how hard it might have been to scrounge up one that fit him.

I don't think he is 125 lbs but I do think he is very skinny for his height and probably not 170. He looks like he's kind of built like a noodle. I have never bought a men's suit (though I have plenty of frustrating experiences of trying to buy women's clothes for myself and my oddball size), but I imagine his height alone would mean he might have trouble finding one easily, with his skinny frame being another difficulty even if he wasn't so tall.

I don't know what his motivation was for buying the suit, but I can imagine he put a fair amount of effort into acquiring one. That or it probably fits him very poorly.

I think there are clothing stores for really tall people but I would imagine they're expensive? Also if he spent a good deal of his Walmart money on the suit, that doesn't leave much in the way of murder spree funds. There's a picture of him wearing a suit that has been in media reports, although it only shows his face, but I don't know if it is the same one. I think it said it was dated June 29th.

The suit is another huge mystery to me actually. First of all it's a bit of an unusual thing for an 18 year old to buy with their first paycheck. But the really weird thing is I saw in a news report that the alcohol checkpoint officer reported seeing a suit in the car. Bryer's dad said he thought it was his "funeral suit" but you would think in that case he would leave it at home to, you know, be buried in it. Was it the suit he planned to kill himself in, if this was planned?

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/first-nation-constable-stopped-homicide-suspects-1.5230779

Contrary to previous media reports, Saunders said he didn't notice any maps or camping gear in the vehicle — just two boxes and a suit.

"I didn't see no camping gear, no maps, no weapons, no drugs or alcohol."

Saunders added that he believed his partner had seen what looked like survival gear and a map in the vehicle."

If it was the same one, why would you bring your nice new suit to a remote area to escape and/or die? Why bring it from the first burned car to the second one, for that matter?

Also on a related note, if this whole thing was planned, why did he tell his dad to buy him $100 cologne before he left (possibly for his birthday I'm guessing?) if he never planned on coming back? I don't think the departed person usually wears cologne at a funeral.

I think this is why I'm so obsessed with this case. I actually lost interest in true crime for a couple of years until this case, and I've pretty much never been interested in the perpetrators of cases before, just missing and unidentified people. I think this is actually the most I've ever been obsessed with a case too, the second-most being Jason Callahan/Grateful Doe (RIP) from a few years ago.

But the reason why this case is so gripping is, I can't figure out what their thought process was. It just makes no sense! Was this planned, and if so, why was the plan so full of obvious mistakes? Was this unplanned, and if so, what is with all these weird details that don't add up like the suit and Bryer's military outfit? Were they just delusional as others suggested and this was some kind of unhinged folie a deux? What was their dynamic in general like and how did this all come about? Like...what the hell happened here?!

Just catching up on this case....

Sounds to me like the police *might* be thinking the suspects are deceased...is this the current school of thought amongst the group?

IMO: Whether they went into the river or not, they dead.

 

[MistyWaters]

And wow! According to this source, the burned out RAV4 was not actually found at the reserve. It was found at the abandoned town of Sundance, near Sundance Creek. That's 3.5 km downstream from the Limestone Dam. So the car was found 3.5km downstream from the Limestone Dam, and the boat was found 27 km downstream from the dam.

source on RAV4 location: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/military-pulling-out-of-search-for-bc-fugitives-1.5231687

From your link, a photo of a sign “Sundance Creek” posted on the side of the road.....(the site of a burnt-out Toyota RAV4 found near Sundance Creek).



So this is Sundance Creek which flows almost in the middle of the ex-community of Sundance? (empty lots/buildings removed).
Sundance (Canada, Manitoba) map [satellite] : Apple™+Google™ — share any place, address search; cities, countries, regions

 

[Zella]

My husband is 6’3” and 165lbs. He looks like a (handsome) bean pole and has a really hard time finding suits that fit his frame and mostly gets them custom made or off-the-rack altered. Even big and tall stores don’t seem to cater much to the combination of tall and super skinny.
From the images I’ve seen, I would think around 160lbs would be accurate for him. Keep in mind, parents aren’t weighing their adult children regularly. I imagine 125lbs is just the last weight that the dad recalls. It’s a forgivable error.

Thank you--I was wondering if it would have been tricky for him to buy one off the rack, and your husband's experiences seem to confirm it.

I agree his father's probable incorrect estimate of his weight is understandable. It just occurred to me that the weight estimate of 169/170 may also have come from his mother, whom he hasn't lived with for a couple of years, either, or his grandmother who did live with him but may have been unaware of his most recent weight.

 

[Gina20]

Here's the source of some items being discussed here again: Alan Schmegelsky.

RCMP not ruling out link between missing Vancouver Island teens, body found near truck, double slaying

Schmegelsky described his son, who did not finish high school, as “a smart kid” who was into computer games, curious about his ancestry and just starting to become less introverted. Schmegelsky said neither Bryer nor Kam is violent or into drugs.

“These kids are smart,” he said. “If they sensed any kind of danger, they would have gone into the woods and hid. With no cellphones and no GPS, they probably got lost in the woods.”

McLeod is described as six-foot-four and about 170 pounds. He has dark brown hair, brown eyes and facial hair. Schmegelsky is also six-foot-four and weighs about 170 pounds, according to RCMP, although his father said he is closer to 125 pounds.

 

[Zella]

I think there are clothing stores for really tall people but I would imagine they're expensive? Also if he spent a good deal of his Walmart money on the suit, that doesn't leave much in the way of murder spree funds. There's a picture of him wearing a suit that has been in media reports, although it only shows his face, but I don't know if it is the same one. I think it said it was dated June 29th.

The suit is another huge mystery to me actually. First of all it's a bit of an unusual thing for an 18 year old to buy with their first paycheck. But the really weird thing is I saw in a news report that the alcohol checkpoint officer reported seeing a suit in the car. Bryer's dad said he thought it was his "funeral suit" but you would think in that case he would leave it at home to, you know, be buried in it. Was it the suit he planned to kill himself in, if this was planned?

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/first-nation-constable-stopped-homicide-suspects-1.5230779


If it was the same one, why would you bring your nice new suit to a remote area to escape and/or die? Why bring it from the first burned car to the second one, for that matter?

I think this is why I'm so obsessed with this case. I actually lost interest in true crime for a couple of years until this case, and I've pretty much never been interested in the perpetrators of cases before, just missing and unidentified people. I think this is actually the most I've ever been obsessed with a case too, the second-most being Jason Callahan/Grateful Doe (RIP) from a few years ago.

But the reason why this case is so gripping is, I can't figure out what their thought process was. It just makes no sense! Was this planned, and if so, why was the plan so full of obvious mistakes? Was this unplanned, and if so, what is with all these weird details that don't add up like the suit and Bryer's military outfit? Were they just delusional as others suggested and this was some kind of unhinged folie a deux? What was their dynamic in general like and how did this all come about? Like...what the hell happened here?!



IMO: Whether they went into the river or not, they dead.

Yeah my only real experiences shopping for men's clothing was for a male relative. I had to go to a Big and Tall store for him, but he is a tall guy who is built like a tank. I didn't even notice what options they had for taller men who are thin.

And I totally know what you mean about this case! I've been sucked in since the beginning when they were missing, and I really no longer know what to think about these two or what they were thinking or planning or if there was ever plan. Just bizarre.

 

[MistyWaters]

Some history about the vacant Sundance -

Sundance, Manitoba - Wikipedia

I don’t think this is connected as it occurred well before the fugitives were even born, sort of interesting none the less -

“CBC's The Fifth Estate ran a program about the murder of Andrea Sherpf and Bernd Goehricke. One of the suspects, Andrew "Andy" Rose lived in Sundance for 3 years starting in August 1986.[1]”

And a historical photo when the townsite existed:
Historic Sites of Manitoba: Sundance Town Site (Northern Manitoba)

 

[otto]

Sorry, it's 27 km from the dam. This is my source:

https://www.hydro.mb.ca/projects/bi...ow_converter_station_and_ground_electrode.pdf

Google maps seems to have it wrong. But you can view the facility nicely on bing maps using aerial view.

One is the converter station, the other is the converter station camp.

 

[FactFinder3000]

One is the converter station, the other is the converter station camp.

View attachment 196867

View attachment 196868

Not sure what you're saying. Google maps is just completely wrong. The ground electrode site, #7 on the second map, they have marked as the converter station. As you can see in the lower map, the converter station is actually #3.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yeah my only real experiences shopping for men's clothing was for a male relative. I had to go to a Big and Tall store for him, but he is a tall guy who is built like a tank. I didn't even notice what options they had for taller men who are thin.

And I totally know what you mean about this case! I've been sucked in since the beginning when they were missing, and I really no longer know what to think about these two or what they were thinking or planning or if there was ever plan. Just bizarre.

My entire family is short and my husband's family is even shorter, so the world of tall people is a complete mystery to me.

I was sucked in since Bryer's dad's interview where he talked about them going out in a "blaze of glory"...I was like "wow, I have never seen an interview like THAT before...." I just hope that LE found something on their online activity or somewhere that gives at least some semblance of an explanation as to what happened....

 

[FactFinder3000]

If you open bing maps, enter the following coordinate, and switch to aerial view, you get a nice clear view of the converter station that the boat was allegedly found near.

Coordinate: 56.656138, -93.852094

If you zoom in, it even has it correctly labeled.

 

[acutename]

Thank you--I was wondering if it would have been tricky for him to buy one off the rack, and your
husband's experiences seem to confirm it.

I agree his father's probable incorrect estimate of his weight is understandable. It just occurred to me that the weight estimate of 169/170 may also have come from his mother, whom he hasn't lived with for a couple of years, either, or his grandmother who did live with him but may have been unaware of his most recent weight.

what does a "survivalist" do with a suit? it is just so weird.
IMO

 

[Zella]

what does a "survivalist" do with a suit? it is just so weird.
IMO

LOL It's a great question! It just seems like something he wouldn't be interested in. It would almost have made more sense to me if someone had bought it for him, telling him he needed to have a suit, rather than it be something he got for himself.

 

[otto]

what does a "survivalist" do with a suit? it is just so weird.
IMO

Maybe he brought it along because he planned to look for a job.

 

[Satchie]

I’m confused why the boat search was reported/advertised to the general public. Why would LE pinpoint a piece of potential evidence for us to be aware of when it could turn out to be nothing? I find it so odd.

I doubt they could keep secret the dive team arriving in their enormous truck, the boats launching and returning at the end of the day, and the helicopter circling around and around one spot on the river. So they explained it to reporters and simultaneously put up a barricade to keep them from snooping.

Also, you never know where the owner of the boat might be, so also getting the word out to collect any tips on it.

Finally, major taxpayer resources are being spent here, there is some accountability due the public as to why they're investing the resources.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Maybe he brought it along because he planned to look for a job.

I feel like the Yukon isn't a "wear a suit to your job interview" sort of place though. I mean, obviously there are probably jobs there that require suits, but I assumed they were looking for more manual labor type of jobs since that's usually the type of jobs people with entry-level qualifications go up North for.

 

[otto]

I feel like the Yukon isn't a "wear a suit to your job interview" sort of place though. I mean, obviously there are probably jobs there that require suits, but I assumed they were looking for more manual labor type of jobs since that's usually the type of jobs people with entry-level qualifications go up North for.

A suit makes a bigger impression at any job interview. There's no other reason to bring a suit. Obviously his father was wrong about it being a burial suit since he took it with him.

 

[Zella]

If BS did bring the suit because he was legitimately looking for work, I wonder if KM brought a suit, too. If so, it may have been less of a big deal for him to buy one simply because his family was more affluent.

 

[NJSleuth91]

A suit makes a bigger impression at any job interview. There's no other reason to bring a suit. Obviously his father was wrong about it being a burial suit since he took it with him.

But even so, if the alcohol checkpoint officer really did see it in the car (and I don't see any reason to believe why not since CBC is a very reliable source and interviewed the officer directly), that means that he specifically moved it from the first car to the second before burning the first car, right after committing murder. Why, out of all things, would THAT be a priority for going on the run from the law?

I guess what I'm getting at is the suit is sort of a harbinger of a deeper sense of "WTF" surrounding these guys. It's like the tip of what might be a much larger "WTF" iceberg.