Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[LoisLane]

I think it might be an effort to quell the rash of unconfirmed sightings that were being reported in Ontario.

Also, the case seems to have generated a lot of interest and made folks throughout Canada uneasy, so I can see why they publicize it, despite not quite knowing if it is connected.

Maybe so. It just doesn’t lend me much confidence to the idea that this boat is a fitting piece to the puzzle.

I just saw a photo of the boat in a news article and it isn’t as trashed as I had originally thought (from earlier reports it sounded like it was shredded). Does it look like it could still work in the water?

There has to be something more to this. Like the owner is missing or the boat was recently taken. Just seems peculiar that this mode of transportation sticks out as a key part of their travels.

 

[Kubirai]

So 1 is the Rav4 and 2 is the boat? That's a long way from the Fox Lake Cree Nation.

Yes, RAV4 was found near the creek on 290, which is location 1 in your map. Boat location is a guess, but could be further down the river.

 

[Zella]

Maybe so. It just doesn’t lend me much confidence to the idea that this boat is a fitting piece to the puzzle.

I just saw a photo of the boat in a news article and it isn’t as trashed as I had originally thought (from earlier reports it sounded like it was shredded). Does it look like it could still work in the water?

There has to be something more to this. Like the owner is missing or the boat was recently taken. Just seems peculiar that this mode of transportation sticks out as a key part of their travels.

I'm honestly not sure if they used the boat that it can ever be confirmed since the water would have washed out any forensic evidence (short of them finding the bodies in the river). But I do think it needs to be investigated, like any other potential lead.

One of the articles someone linked to featured one of the RCMP saying they had no idea if it was connected to the suspects, but the implication was someone had potentially had a boating accident there in recent days, and it was really just due diligence for them to bring in divers to check it out and see if someone was injured or deceased, regardless of whether it was these 2. So, I think LE has a healthy sense of the situation--that it doesn't necessarily mean anything for the manhunt but still needs to be investigated.

 

[Gina20]

Some history about the vacant Sundance -

Sundance, Manitoba - Wikipedia

I don’t think this is connected as it occurred well before the fugitives were even born, sort of interesting none the less -

“CBC's The Fifth Estate ran a program about the murder of Andrea Sherpf and Bernd Goehricke. One of the suspects, Andrew "Andy" Rose lived in Sundance for 3 years starting in August 1986.[1]”

And a historical photo when the townsite existed:
Historic Sites of Manitoba: Sundance Town Site (Northern Manitoba)

That story ties back to Chetwynd, B.C., close to where this story began for Lucas and Chynna. Strange, isn't it...but maybe not if you think that at Hudson's Hope there is a dam.

W. A. C. Bennett Dam - Wikipedia

 

[LoisLane]

I doubt they could keep secret the dive team arriving in their enormous truck, the boats launching and returning at the end of the day, and the helicopter circling around and around one spot on the river. So they explained it to reporters and simultaneously put up a barricade to keep them from snooping.

Also, you never know where the owner of the boat might be, so also getting the word out to collect any tips on it.

Finally, major taxpayer resources are being spent here, there is some accountability due the public as to why they're investing the resources.

Yes that all makes sense. The part I find odd is the specific info they relayed (the boat). That doesn’t have to be shared to the Canadian public to bring in tips. From my understanding the residents of Gillam have regular communication with investigators and the boat being of interest could be past around as something to be identified without broadcasting it nationally. So do
they have something really substantial to believe this boat is for sure associated to them? If they don’t, is this only to show the public that they are still searching? I find this whole approach really off.
JMOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yes that all makes sense. The part I find odd is the specific info they relayed (the boat). That doesn’t have to be shared to the Canadian public to bring in tips. From my understanding the residents of Gillam have regular communication with investigators and the boat being of interest could be past around as something to be identified without broadcasting it nationally. So do
they have something really substantial to believe this boat is for sure associated to them? If they don’t, is this only to show the public that they are still searching? I find this whole approach really off.
JMOO

I don't think it's off at all. It's good to show the public they're still searching because of all the criticism the public has been giving them, and keep the case in the news to generate any other potential leads. I don't know if there's any additional evidence to indicate they were in the boat, but it would still be amiss if they DIDN'T search and it turned out to be something. If Kam and Bryer were in the boat, they're almost certainly dead, so no point trying to hide the search effort from them. If they are alive and still in the bush, they probably aren't anywhere near the search area. If they're alive and escaped the area entirely, it's probably better if they think the heat is off them, while the RCMP is still following up on other tips.

 

[LoisLane]

I'm honestly not sure if they used the boat that it can ever be confirmed since the water would have washed out any forensic evidence (short of them finding the bodies in the river). But I do think it needs to be investigated, like any other potential lead.

One of the articles someone linked to featured one of the RCMP saying they had no idea if it was connected to the suspects, but the implication was someone had potentially had a boating accident there in recent days, and it was really just due diligence for them to bring in divers to check it out and see if someone was injured or deceased, regardless of whether it was these 2. So, I think LE has a healthy sense of the situation--that it doesn't necessarily mean anything for the manhunt but still needs to be investigated.

I can see that being a reasonable step but this has been played out in the news like it’s the lead up to the conclusion of the manhunt. Maybe it’s just the media making it way bigger than routine work. But even MB RCMP tweeted about it. If someone did die boating and it was not related to these guys it’s going to be a hard one for RCMP to back peddle on. If that makes sense.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Yes, RAV4 was found near the creek on 290, which is location 1 in your map. Boat location is a guess, but could be further down the river.

It's been posted a few pages back that the boat was found near Limestone Rapids and the converter station. Which is why we've been discussing the converter station location. It's actually very obvious on satellite maps. There are wires leading to the converter staion, and then other wires leading away. Here, again, is the coordinate: 56.656138, -93.852094

 

[Zella]

I can see that being a reasonable step but this has been played out in the news like it’s the lead up to the conclusion of the manhunt. Maybe it’s just the media making it way bigger than routine work. But even MB RCMP tweeted about it. If someone did die boating and it was not related to these guys it’s going to be a hard one for RCMP to back peddle on. If that makes sense.

I think that's on the media. And truthfully the media coverage I have seen has been quite measured--just noting it was found in the general area they were last known to have been and that the boat hadn't been there before and it is not an area where boats are usually used, so they're bringing in divers to check it out. The RCMP official statements on Twitter have been even more terse.

RCMP Manitoba (@rcmpmb) | Twitter

 

[LoisLane]

I don't think it's off at all. It's good to show the public they're still searching because of all the criticism the public has been giving them, and keep the case in the news to generate any other potential leads. I don't know if there's any additional evidence to indicate they were in the boat, but it would still be amiss if they DIDN'T search and it turned out to be something. If Kam and Bryer were in the boat, they're almost certainly dead, so no point trying to hide the search effort from them. If they are alive and still in the bush, they probably aren't anywhere near the search area. If they're alive and escaped the area entirely, it's probably better if they think the heat is off them, while the RCMP is still following up on other tips.

I hear ya. I totally understand all of this rationale. But if someone in the area reports their large hunting guide dog missing or someone discovered a shed had been broken into and their jerry can is not there would we hear about that too? It just seems messy to me. I won’t keep on about it. It just bugs me for some reason.

 

[steelybird]

There must be something that LE has seen that ties them to the boat. It seems like a lot of effort is being put into this if there’s a chance that it’s just some random boat. I like the idea someone posted about them using the boat for shelter. That makes sense and seems more reasonable than them attempting the Nelson (not that these are reasonable individuals). It would also increase the chances of them still being alive imo. But if that was the case there likely wouldn’t be divers searching the river. I am holding on to hope that they are found alive, just so we may get some answers in all this. But the likelihood of that seems slimmer every day that passes. The whole thing is baffling and I hope we all see an end to it soon.

 

[Zella]

I am holding on to hope that they are found alive, just so we may get some answers in all this. But the likelihood of that seems slimmer every day that passes. The whole thing is baffling and I hope we all see an end to it soon.

SBM

I feel the same way. At the very least, if they're dead, I want them to be discovered, so everyone in Canada can breathe a little easier and not worry about them being on the loose.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I hear ya. I totally understand all of this rationale. But if someone in the area reports their large hunting guide dog missing or someone discovered a shed had been broken into and their jerry can is not there would we hear about that too? It just seems messy to me. I won’t keep on about it. It just bugs me for some reason.

It's possible we might hear about it. But in this case they had to bring in a bunch of specialized staff and equipment to follow up on the lead. If they didn't report on it, it's possible there would be a bunch of rumor mill "what are they up to and why aren't they telling us?" stuff. They may be trying to head that off by being transparent about it.

There must be something that LE has seen that ties them to the boat. It seems like a lot of effort is being put into this if there’s a chance that it’s just some random boat. I like the idea someone posted about them using the boat for shelter. That makes sense and seems more reasonable than them attempting the Nelson (not that these are reasonable individuals). It would also increase the chances of them still being alive imo. But if that was the case there likely wouldn’t be divers searching the river. I am holding on to hope that they are found alive, just so we may get some answers in all this. But the likelihood of that seems slimmer every day that passes. The whole thing is baffling and I hope we all see an end to it soon.

I'm wondering too if they found anything else around the boat that they didn't publicly disclose. I hope so because that increases the chance this will actually be resolved soon.

I am hoping every day that this case gets resolved. Not just in terms of finding them but in terms of answering some of the questions of how the events played out and why this all happened. I can't see a likely scenario where they're alive at this point but who knows. At least if their bodies were recovered it would be something and the loved ones of the victims and the local residents wouldn't have to worry about killers on the loose anymore. And let's not forget Kam and Bryer's families, who are victims too in all this, can at least know what happened to them.

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe so. It just doesn’t lend me much confidence to the idea that this boat is a fitting piece to the puzzle.

I just saw a photo of the boat in a news article and it isn’t as trashed as I had originally thought (from earlier reports it sounded like it was shredded). Does it look like it could still work in the water?

There has to be something more to this. Like the owner is missing or the boat was recently taken. Just seems peculiar that this mode of transportation sticks out as a key part of their travels.

Aluminum is strong and wouldn’t be shredded to pieces by river rocks. It’s the force of water repeatedly bashing the boat against large rocks in the rapids that’s caused the damage. Notice how the boat is significantly bent in the centre so the bottom is no longer flat and the sides are flayed out? It’s well beyond navigable IMO.

RCMP Manitoba (@rcmpmb) on Twitter
This is the damaged aluminum boat found by #rcmpmb officers on the shores of the Nelson River during a helicopter search on friday afternoon.

 

[steelybird]

SBM

I feel the same way. At the very least, if they're dead, I want them to be discovered, so everyone in Canada can breathe a little easier and not worry about them being on the loose.

100% agree!

 

[LoisLane]

Another thing that’s on my mind a lot about this search is that since LE has covered a lot remote area I wonder if any unrelated missing persons have been recovered.

 

[steelybird]

It's possible we might hear about it. But in this case they had to bring in a bunch of specialized staff and equipment to follow up on the lead. If they didn't report on it, it's possible there would be a bunch of rumor mill "what are they up to and why aren't they telling us?" stuff. They may be trying to head that off by being transparent about it.



I'm wondering too if they found anything else around the boat that they didn't publicly disclose. I hope so because that increases the chance this will actually be resolved soon.

I am hoping every day that this case gets resolved. Not just in terms of finding them but in terms of answering some of the questions of how the events played out and why this all happened. I can't see a likely scenario where they're alive at this point but who knows. At least if their bodies were recovered it would be something and the loved ones of the victims and the local residents wouldn't have to worry about killers on the loose anymore. And let's not forget Kam and Bryer's families, who are victims too in all this, can at least know what happened to them.

Very well said. Thank you.

 

[LoisLane]

Aluminum is strong and wouldn’t be shredded to pieces by river rocks. It’s the force of water repeatedly bashing the boat against large rocks in the rapids that’s caused the damage. Notice how the boat is significantly bent in the centre so the bottom is no longer flat and the sides are flayed out? It’s well beyond navigable IMO.

RCMP Manitoba (@rcmpmb) on Twitter
This is the damaged aluminum boat found by #rcmpmb officers on the shores of the Nelson River during a helicopter search on friday afternoon.

View attachment 196872

View attachment 196873

Good to know. I read (either here or news) today the “shredded” term so I was expecting tears. I was curious if no holes if this thing could still float.

 

[MistyWaters]

I can see that being a reasonable step but this has been played out in the news like it’s the lead up to the conclusion of the manhunt. Maybe it’s just the media making it way bigger than routine work. But even MB RCMP tweeted about it. If someone did die boating and it was not related to these guys it’s going to be a hard one for RCMP to back peddle on. If that makes sense.

It seemed to me there’s been less media coverage about the Dive Team’s endeavours compared to the (unsubstantiated) York Landing sighting at the garbage dump. Maybe the difference is this is a dead body search as opposed to a take-down with the potential for violence.

 

[steelybird]

Anyone else heard of the potential sighting in Moose Jaw tonight? I'm from the area and the Facebook rumour-mill claims they were spotted at the A&W along the Trans-Canada highway. An employee is claiming the RCMP reviewed the footage and believe it was Bryer and Kam. I'll believe it when it's officially announced but I'm still intrigued.

There's supposedly been a large RCMP presence in several smaller Sask. communities as well that people are speculating about. Car searches been doing at the turnoff from #1 to #39 highways southeast of Moose Jaw and officers spotted armed with rifles searching the Chamberlain area.

ETA: Sounds like RCMP were also questioning employees specifically about Kam and Bryer at the Flying J down the road. No one there had seen them but police were reviewing their security footage.

I hope it is them and that there is footage. Indisputable evidence. That would be amazing. BS’s birthday dinner perhaps? Eating at A&W would be a pretty stupid move but so is everything else they’ve done. Their egos are probably craving attention.