Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[otto]

Damnit @otto

I was looking up statistics on firearm type and suicide, and happened upon a website that actually gives advice as to the best methods.

“...has a library of information on methods to commit suicide, including dangers of individual methods and their reliability.”

Oh joy

I can’t believe this exist.

And ... is the 22 a good choice?

 

[otto]

Sorry for being gruesome but for a shotgun, one would probably need to use one's toe to fire the trigger. Or at least that is what has happened in cases I know about.

A 22 isn't that long, is it? Couldn't someone prop it on their knees, aim for the head and use a thumb?

 

[Zella]

Hey everyone! Any new news today? I feel like I missed something but this thread is overwhelmingly long.

Did the Australia 60 minutes air tonight?

There's a new interview with the guy who helped them get their car unstuck:
They were 'really nice kids' says Alberta man who inadvertently helped 2 BC teen fugitives

Someone posted an excerpt from the 60 Minutes Australia thing, but it is mostly an interview with the reporter:

If it has aired in Australia, nobody has reported back on the purported bombshells.

Nothing else is coming to my mind, but someone else might remember something.

 

[Zella]

@PatLaurel, did you see the video interview with the Mountie who may or may not have talked more than he was supposed to? I can't remember if that was from yesterday or today.

 

[otto]

My theory is that they burned the RAV4 and went briefly into Sundance on foot to grab a boat and travel down Sundance Creek to the Nelson, then traveled some distance down the Nelson River to before the rapids and pulled to shore.

They took the gun but no other gear and pushed the boat back into the river where it went over the Limestone Rapids and spilled all the personal items and badly damaged the boat. These items washed up at various points downstream. It's the same pattern of destroying both their conveyance and all the gear in it, for the third and final time.

They scrambled up the sandy cliffs leaving a clear trail for LE to find once LE began looking for it. They beat their way 1 km into the bush and put the gun to work, leaving both dead.

Do you have a link to their personal items being spread along the Nelson River shore? I've heard of "personal items" and "one item" and a "red and white water jug." I haven't read anything about the item(s) being washed to the shore.

The Globe and Mail marker on the map is 11km (as the crow flies) from the car. How did they figure that out to be 13?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

SBM Yeah I'm probably more on the oddball fringe range than not and so are most of my friends. LOL

But I do distinguish between people who are unfairly singled out and ostracized or picked on just for marching to the beat of their own drum or being different and those who are singled out or ostracized because their behavior is unacceptable. If BS was just kind of a goofy, weird kid and the others didn't like him for that, that would be one thing.

But he was ostracized because he was making violent threats and bragging about Nazis. He brought that on himself. Granted, he probably had some deeper psychological issues that was fueling that behavior that needed to be addressed, but I don't blame any of friends or acquaintances for bailing on him over it.

I'm sure he noticed his friend circle shrinking and was hurt by it, but I also suspect he well knew that his behavior was offensive and kind of enjoyed getting a rise out of people.

I'm on the same page as you. Never liked people getting bullied and always stood up for them and I do like to root for the underdogs usually lol! Agreed about behaviors too, some people have a choice and others don't.

 

[Zella]

A 22 isn't that long, is it? Couldn't someone prop it on their knees, aim for the head and use a thumb?

Honestly, I don't personally know of anyone who has done that. The suicide by firearms I am familiar with usually involve a pistol. Shotguns are quite a bit rarer, and I think it is because it is probably harder/more cumbersome. I would think a rifle would present similar challenges with length, but I'm not really comfortable rummaging through the house for one to test this theory.

In any event, if they used a rifle or shotgun to commit their crimes and then used that firearm to kill themselves, they may have found the logistics of that a little tricky to navigate.

 

[scrappinkat]

Damnit @otto

I was looking up statistics on firearm type and suicide, and happened upon a website that actually gives advice as to the best methods.

“...has a library of information on methods to commit suicide, including dangers of individual methods and their reliability.”

Oh joy

I can’t believe this exist.

I’m betting a 22cal was not considered a reliable option?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Hey everyone! Any new news today? I feel like I missed something but this thread is overwhelmingly long.

Did the Australia 60 minutes air tonight?

By tomorrow morning this thread will have 500 pages!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Honestly, I don't personally know of anyone who has done that. The suicide by firearms I am familiar with usually involve a pistol. Shotguns are quite a bit rarer, and I think it is because it is probably harder/more cumbersome. I would think a rifle would present similar challenges with length, but I'm not really comfortable rummaging through the house for one to test this theory.

In any event, if they used a rifle or shotgun to commit their crimes and then used that firearm to kill themselves, they may have found the logistics of that a little tricky to navigate.

Have to wonder if they hung themselves too. I should take a look at photos again for the trees or if there's really any!

 

[scrappinkat]

Given their direction when they were found, they were heading back towards Sundance, The SAR spokesperson said it looked like they gave it up and the remaining question was homicide and suicide.

If they had a 22, how hard is it to commit suicide with a 22 rifle?

People have been known to commit suicide with a knife. Personally I would chose to use a bullet over a knife (it’s just not quick enough)

 

[SnooperDuper]

Do you have a link to their personal items being spread along the Nelson River shore? I've heard of "personal items" and "one item" and a "red and white water jug." I haven't read anything about the item(s) being washed to the shore.

The Globe and Mail marker on the map is 11km (as the crow flies) from the car. How did they figure that out to be 13?

CBC via edmontonnews.org:

"A break in the investigation came Aug. 2 when police found personal items linked to Schmegelsky and McLeod on the banks of the Nelson River and were able to narrow their search."

B.C. RCMP address media after bodies believed to be Kam McLeod, Bryer Schmegelsky found in northern Manitoba – Edmonton News

I think the Globe map is accurate. It could be they are measuring the distance as if you were travelling the river and not as the crow flies. There is a distinct landmark where the bodies were found which would be had to mis-identify and the boat is in the back eddy of the river, which totally makes sense.

 

[otto]

They seemed like very chill people. It might depend on how much money they had on them, and how they were feeling when they decided to camp. There's always the possibility that they knew of an unofficial campground along their route as well. I know as a kid whenever we went camping in different parts of BC we never stayed at actual campgrounds, and the places we did go were usually fairly packed with young (early to mid 20's) groups of people.

The route to where? Campgrounds are near lakes and hiking spots. People who stay at pullouts can look at something nice, but that's about it. It's been a while since I camped in Canada, but when I did, there were no homeless people on the side of the highway.

 

[otto]

There's a new interview with the guy who helped them get their car unstuck:
They were 'really nice kids' says Alberta man who inadvertently helped 2 BC teen fugitives

Someone posted an excerpt from the 60 Minutes Australia thing, but it is mostly an interview with the reporter:

If it has aired in Australia, nobody has reported back on the purported bombshells.

Nothing else is coming to my mind, but someone else might remember something.

And the search continues

RCMP send search specialists to scour area where bodies of B.C. homicide suspects were found

 

[MassGuy]

And ... is the 22 a good choice?

It doesn’t address that weapon specifically, but says this:

“There is no overwhelming evidence of high caliber size being more effective.”

“Shots to the brain are nearly 90% effective, and higher if a shotgun is used.”

 

[otto]

@PatLaurel, did you see the video interview with the Mountie who may or may not have talked more than he was supposed to? I can't remember if that was from yesterday or today.

That was SAR. He said that it was good to be able to do their jobs without a sniper escort.

 

[NJSleuth91]

SBM Yeah I'm probably more on the oddball fringe range than not and so are most of my friends. LOL

But I do distinguish between people who are unfairly singled out and ostracized or picked on just for marching to the beat of their own drum or being different and those who are singled out or ostracized because their behavior is unacceptable. If BS was just kind of a goofy, weird kid and the others didn't like him for that, that would be one thing.

But he was ostracized because he was making violent threats and bragging about Nazis. He brought that on himself. Granted, he probably had some deeper psychological issues that was fueling that behavior that needed to be addressed, but I don't blame any of friends or acquaintances for bailing on him over it.

I'm sure he noticed his friend circle shrinking and was hurt by it, but I also suspect he well knew that his behavior was offensive and kind of enjoyed getting a rise out of people.

Yeah I don't blame anyone for bailing on him either. But what I'm getting at is, it's a vicious cycle, and I've seen it happen with people I know before. Unacceptable/weird behavior leads to isolation, which leads to deterioration in mental health and social skills, which leads to more unacceptable/weird behavior, which leads to more isolation...etc. I think he had the "us against the world" mindset due to this, regardless of the fact that he actively contributed to it happening. Again, as with everything these two did, it doesn't have to make logical sense.

We'll probably never know the precipitating factor of why he was like that in the first place or when it started -- I suspect it started early on since one former elementary school classmate said he was an "angry kid," and it was likely caused by a combination of unstable family life and possibly something organically wrong with him.

 

[otto]

Honestly, I don't personally know of anyone who has done that. The suicide by firearms I am familiar with usually involve a pistol. Shotguns are quite a bit rarer, and I think it is because it is probably harder/more cumbersome. I would think a rifle would present similar challenges with length, but I'm not really comfortable rummaging through the house for one to test this theory.

In any event, if they used a rifle or shotgun to commit their crimes and then used that firearm to kill themselves, they may have found the logistics of that a little tricky to navigate.

Port Alberni teens don't have easy access to pistols, but 22 rifles are common. It sounds like it's a good weapon for shooting to kill, and if it works for suicide as well, then maybe it was a murder/suicide in the end.

 

[LoisLane]

The Cold Lake guy said he saw a photo of the sleeping bag in a news article. Has anyone seen this photo/article?

 

[Zella]

That was SAR. He said that it was good to be able to do their jobs without a sniper escort.

Would it not be accurate to refer to him as a Mountie then since his work is specialized?