Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[PatLaurel]

@PatLaurel, did you see the video interview with the Mountie who may or may not have talked more than he was supposed to? I can't remember if that was from yesterday or today.

I did see a video of a Mountie talking about how dense the bush is where the boys were found... But why are you asking me this? Did i miss something?

Edit: grammar.

 

[NJSleuth91]

People have been known to commit suicide with a knife.

Jesus Christ. File that under "things I never want to envision."

 

[Optics]

My theory is that they burned the RAV4 and went briefly into Sundance on foot to grab a boat and travel down Sundance Creek to the Nelson, then traveled some distance down the Nelson River to before the rapids and pulled to shore.

They took the gun but no other gear and pushed the boat back into the river where it went over the Limestone Rapids and spilled all the personal items and badly damaged the boat. These items washed up at various points downstream. It's the same pattern of destroying both their conveyance and all the gear in it, for the third and final time.

They scrambled up the sandy cliffs leaving a clear trail for LE to find once LE began looking for it. They beat their way 1 km into the bush and put the gun to work, leaving both dead.

Yes, though if they died shortly after they abandoned the Rav4, I'm thinking the next day the helicopters were out there searching and they saw/heard them. I've thought about the use of gun to kill themselves, but they would risk the shot being heard. I'm leaning toward a poison cocktail of something they both had prepared and took, or some other means. I hope we learn how they died at least from the Coroner's autopsy report.

 

[otto]

CBC via edmontonnews.org:

"A break in the investigation came Aug. 2 when police found personal items linked to Schmegelsky and McLeod on the banks of the Nelson River and were able to narrow their search."

B.C. RCMP address media after bodies believed to be Kam McLeod, Bryer Schmegelsky found in northern Manitoba – Edmonton News

I think the Globe map is accurate. It could be they are measuring the distance as if you were travelling the river and not as the crow flies. There is a distinct landmark where the bodies were found which would be had to mis-identify and the boat is in the back eddy of the river, which totally makes sense.

RCMP said that the boat was found 13km from the burned car. The marker on the map - easy to check on google maps - is 11km from the burned car. The marker on the Globe and Mail map is different from RCMP information.

 

[Zella]

Port Alberni teens don't have easy access to pistols, but 22 rifles are common. It sounds like it's a good weapon for shooting to kill, and if it works for suicide as well, then maybe it was a murder/suicide in the end.

Yes, my understanding is in Canada, the firearms they would have had access to would have been more likely a rifle or a shotgun--hunting weapons--than handguns.

I can certainly see them using a .22, though as I said earlier, I am not sure it would account for the damage that has been implied to CD.

Whoever mentioned earlier that it would be too small for deer is correct. This is really Arkansas--and I apologize for the trip down Hillbilly Lane--but a .22 is what would be considered a "squirrel gun" around here.

However, as I mentioned earlier, a .22 caliber pistol was a favored weapon of one infamous Mafia hitman, so I think that general caliber would serve BS's and KM's purposes.

All MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Yes, though if they died shortly after they abandoned the Rav4, I'm thinking the next day the helicopters were out there searching and they saw/heard them. I've thought about the use of gun to kill themselves, but they would risk the shot being heard. I'm leaning toward a poison cocktail of something they both had prepared and took, or some other means. I hope we learn how they died at least from the Coroner's autopsy report.

Helicopters are loud - no one in a helicopter is going to hear a shot down below. There's no one else for miles. It's difficult to triangulate the direction from which a shot came in the best of circumstances. I don't think the sound of a gun was an issue.

 

[LoisLane]

BS’s father is not going to be privy to any information from police to help him understand the ‘why’s and how’ this happened to his son. He just doesn’t have the sound mind to comprehend this. I feel for him. He is being exploited with media. Some people just don’t have the means to fully understand the ramifications of their actions (talking to media).

In the interview it was mentioned he is homeless and lives in his Van. If anything I hope victim services or some sort of assistance is offered to him. He is vulnerable to his surroundings through this and I think he is in danger. He needs help. I hope he finds it.

 

[Zella]

I did see a video of Mountie talking about how dense the bush is where the boys were found... But why are you asking me this? Did i miss something?

We've spent a fair amount of time occupying ourselves by discussing whether or not he strongly implies the suspects died of gunshot wounds. But maybe that was yesterday we occupied ourselves with that? In any event, I figured if you hadn't seen it, it might be a pertinent video to watch!

 

[SnooperDuper]

RCMP said that the boat was found 13km from the burned car. The marker on the map - easy to check on google maps - is 11km from the burned car. The marker on the Globe and Mail map is different from RCMP information.

I still believe that the Globe's map is the most accurate map we have.

They had people up there and had locals take them out to the sites.

 

[otto]

It doesn’t address that weapon specifically, but says this:

“There is no overwhelming evidence of high caliber size being more effective.”

“Shots to the brain are nearly 90% effective, and higher if a shotgun is used.”

That would mean that it is possible they had a 22, used it in the murders and used it to commit suicide.

 

[otto]

The Cold Lake guy said he saw a photo of the sleeping bag in a news article. Has anyone seen this photo/article?

I don't believe him. I think he is embellishing. I think he doesn't realize the sleeping bag was found in Port Nelson - 110 km from the "personal items" that were on shore.

 

[missy1974]

Well the man who runs this suicide site, says that it’s best to use a shotgun.

The most popular location is the temple.

The second most popular location is the mouth, which probably makes the most sense logistically, if they used a rifle.

You probably wouldn’t need long arms, unless the rifle is unusually long.

Can't believe there is a site like that ... well, I guess I can... but can't believe you are still reading it too

 

[NJSleuth91]

BS’s father is not going to be privy to any information from police to help him understand the ‘why’s and how’ this happened to his son. He just doesn’t have the sound mind to comprehend this. I feel for him. He is being exploited with media. Some people just don’t have the means to fully understand the ramifications of their actions (talking to media).

In the interview it was mentioned he is homeless and lives in his Van. If anything I hope victim services or some sort of assistance is offered to him. He is vulnerable to his surroundings through this and I think he is in danger. He needs help. I hope he finds it.

Yeah I said this before, I'm worried about him. I think there's a risk that Kam and Bryer's spree could claim an additional victim, if you know what I mean. It sounds like he was already not doing well mentally BEFORE this all happened. I hope that someone can step in because those vulture reporters sure aren't going to keep an eye out for his well-being.

 

[MassGuy]

That would mean that it is possible they had a 22, used it in the murders and used it to commit suicide.

Oh it’s always been possible.

I’m leaning towards a hunting weapon of some type, so 22 or shotgun.

 

[otto]

Yes, though if they died shortly after they abandoned the Rav4, I'm thinking the next day the helicopters were out there searching and they saw/heard them. I've thought about the use of gun to kill themselves, but they would risk the shot being heard. I'm leaning toward a poison cocktail of something they both had prepared and took, or some other means. I hope we learn how they died at least from the Coroner's autopsy report.

There's nothing to risk when committing suicide. They left personal items on the shore 1 km from their bodies.

It's almost like they left a bread crumb trail leading to their bodies. If they hadn't burned the truck, no one would have connected them to the murders, if they hadn't burned the car, no one would have looked in Sundance, if they hadn't left something on the shore, no one would have looked on the river.

 

[otto]

Yes, my understanding is in Canada, the firearms they would have had access to would have been more likely a rifle or a shotgun--hunting weapons--than handguns.

I can certainly see them using a .22, though as I said earlier, I am not sure it would account for the damage that has been implied to CD.

Whoever mentioned earlier that it would be too small for deer is correct. This is really Arkansas--and I apologize for the trip down Hillbilly Lane--but a .22 is what would be considered a "squirrel gun" around here.

However, as I mentioned earlier, a .22 caliber pistol was a favored weapon of one infamous Mafia hitman, so I think that general caliber would serve BS's and KM's purposes.

All MOO

A 22 rifle injury to heart or lungs could have caused the foam at her mouth, injuries that prevented open casket could be knife. Hard to say.

 

[otto]

I still believe that the Globe's map is the most accurate map we have.

They had people up there and had locals take them out to the sites.

There are many maps about this. Globe and Mail is just one more, but maybe RCMP have it wrong, and the boat was 11 km from the car. Maybe they got it wrong about the personal items 9 km from the shore too.

 

[Zella]

A 22 rifle injury to heart or lungs could have caused the foam at her mouth, injuries that prevented open casket could be knife. Hard to say.

I personally don't think the foam would have been an obstruction to an open casket funeral. Morticians can work wonders, and that seems like something that could be cleaned up. I suspect she was actually shot in the face, and that's why open casket was out of the question.

MOO

I just realized I misread your post and missed the part about that knife. Sorry about that! It's probably time for me to go to bed! But yes your theory certainly is plausible.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yeah I don't blame anyone for bailing on him either. But what I'm getting at is, it's a vicious cycle, and I've seen it happen with people I know before. Unacceptable/weird behavior leads to isolation, which leads to deterioration in mental health and social skills, which leads to more unacceptable/weird behavior, which leads to more isolation...etc. I think he had the "us against the world" mindset due to this, regardless of the fact that he actively contributed to it happening. Again, as with everything these two did, it doesn't have to make logical sense.

We'll probably never know the precipitating factor of why he was like that in the first place or when it started -- I suspect it started early on since one former elementary school classmate said he was an "angry kid," and it was likely caused by a combination of unstable family life and possibly something organically wrong with him.

I agree, well said!

I fear what you mentioned might get more common and contribute to a new phenomenon with the young people glued to their cell phones/social media/internet/screens/gaming contributing to this as well as kids in unhealthy homes/environments. There's already stats on the damage on mental health related to it all. Less human interaction makes it easier to detach, become isolated. I hope I'm wrong though!

 

[SnooperDuper]

There's nothing to risk when committing suicide. They left personal items on the shore 1 km from their bodies.

It's almost like they left a bread crumb trail leading to their bodies. If they hadn't burned the truck, no one would have connected them to the murders, if they hadn't burned the car, no one would have looked in Sundance, if they hadn't left something on the shore, no one would have looked on the river.

That's a big assumption to say they left items on shore. They likely pushed the boat out onto the river to erase their trail and when it spilled on the rapids, the items were washed to shore. They probably never set foot where the boat and personal items were found.

 

[PatLaurel]

We've spent a fair amount of time occupying ourselves by discussing whether or not he strongly implies the suspects died of gunshot wounds. But maybe that was yesterday we occupied ourselves with that? In any event, I figured if you hadn't seen it, it might be a pertinent video to watch!

Well, yes i've watched the video. My very first impression is that they were murdered, hence the RCMP back on the crime scene with metal detectors.

Just my very very very personal opinion!

ETA no murder/suicide... Murdered.

 

[NJSleuth91]

There's nothing to risk when committing suicide. They left personal items on the shore 1 km from their bodies.

It's almost like they left a bread crumb trail leading to their bodies. If they hadn't burned the truck, no one would have connected them to the murders, if they hadn't burned the car, no one would have looked in Sundance, if they hadn't left something on the shore, no one would have looked on the river.

Honestly I think they dumped the items near the river hoping their bodies would be found, especially because it sounds like investigators don't even think they used the boat. I don't think they intended for things to end up like this and maybe they wanted their friends and families to know what happened to them.

 

[Zella]

Yeah I said this before, I'm worried about him. I think there's a risk that Kam and Bryer's spree could claim an additional victim, if you know what I mean. It sounds like he was already not doing well mentally BEFORE this all happened. I hope that someone can step in because those vulture reporters sure aren't going to keep an eye out for his well-being.

This has concerned me, as well.