Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[missy1974]

YES! exactly... (but i don't know what KWIM is)

KWIM = Know what I mean

 

[Optics]

Lots of reasons. They have botched a lot of elements of the investigation and search. Lots of errors have been reported in the press, mostly by Australian media. Before anyone criticizes the media for that reporting it is their job to hold power to account.

The keys are one of the latest major failings, makes me wonder what else they might have missed in the vicinity of the burnt RAV4. Perhaps there was further clues of their direction of travel that could have lead to arresting them and not finding them dead.

I’m also very concerned the police never interviewed or followed up with the cab driver to determine who it was who called wanting a ride to Bird. I don’t think for a second that it was KM or BS but it could well be someone they knew? I think it’s nonsense to think a 3rd person was physically involved in the murders but there has to be a reason they chose remote northern Manitoba and perhaps that phone call would answer that. It wouldn’t be hard for RCMP to get his phone records.

I’m not at liberty to disclose everything at this point but I feel confident enough to say I believe they ****** up a lot along the way.

I feel it goes both ways - the media also impeded a lot of the investigation in Manitoba. As you the media have your 'role', so do the RCMP - the fact remains once the majority of media left, the police were actual able to do their job and the end result is they found the murder suspects. Though there was a ton of media presence up in the Gillam and surrounding area, I would venture to say the media wasn't drudging through the horrid rain conditions and the deep bush, muskeg, and swamp areas like the police were. I'd venture to guess most of the media stayed on the roadways and in the comfort of your relative safety. I don't know if you are part of Canadian media or outside the country - it's probably irrelevant but I do know the Priority of the RCMP is not to pander to the public, but to get to the forensic bottom of a crime.

 

[otto]

Because the RCMP are incompetent.

That's a strong statement!

Thankfully those incompetent people solved a very complex murder spree.

 

[September23]

Now...I call you a TRUE WebSleuth! Nicely done!

Thankyou, Zella,
I like how you sleuth!

 

[missy1974]

I feel it goes both ways - the media also impeded a lot of the investigation in Manitoba. As you the media have your 'role', so do the RCMP - the fact remains once the majority of media left, the police were actual able to do their job and the end result is they found the murder suspects. Though there was a ton of media presence up in the Gillam and surrounding area, I would venture to say the media wasn't drudging through the horrid rain conditions and the deep bush, muskeg, and swamp areas like the police were. I'd venture to guess most of the media stayed on the roadways and in the comfort of relative safety.

What did the media do to impede the investigation? I have followed this since the young men were still considered "missing".... I don't recall anything impeding the investigation... not at the moment anyway lol

ETA: From what little we know, I don't think the RCMP found them because the media left. I think they found them because someone saw something and they got lucky. JMO

 

[aphoto]

The Australian press has been both unfair and inaccurate all the way through this. They reported the search had moved to Ontario when it had remained focused in Gillam until the end.

Why elevate this one tip from the cabbie over the other 1,000 tips that were received? Is it really important in any way, or is it just the only news that the "reporter" was able to "investigate"? You make it sound like it was the one tip that was going to break the case wide open, and it's definitely not that.

It seems that you can't come up with any solid examples of how the RCMP failed. You're fixated on the keys and the cabbie. Do you honestly have any REAL examples of how the RCMP failed?

I met the cabbie myself and I think his story has a lot of weight. His phone is full of calls from local numbers, he remembers this wasn’t a local or familiar number. It’s definitely worth investigating further. I have a lot more examples that are currently only single sourced so I can’t reveal them as it would out the sources who spoke on background.

The day that the tips flooded in there was absolutely no activity in Gillam, it had appeared to die down there completely and officers in town were placing a lot of weight in those tips. I was in Gillam that day so that’s a first hand observation. Hindsight tells us that it was false but at the time it was as accurate as possible.

 

[Moonlitnight]

If there is no inquest, then it is up to the police?

I have no clue. I am also not aware if a coroner always gets involved in cases such as LD's. I would assume yes based on this: CMPA - Understanding the role of coroners and medical examiners

 

[scrappinkat]

Oh, and why do ppl take screenshots of games? I also understand that people can watch other ppl play video games (and others watch ppl unwrap things, but that's another group of people stuck in their own unique hell) Is there anyway to see what he watched?

Some games automatically take screenshots at certain intervals, for example when that level has just been finished and the new level is going to start loading for play.

 

[aphoto]

What did the media do to impede the investigation? I have followed this since the young men were still considered "missing".... I don't recall anything impeding the investigation... not at the moment anyway lol

ETA: From what little we know, I don't think the RCMP found them because the media left. I think they found them because someone saw something and they got lucky. JMO

Exactly this. Media did nothing to impede police. There was actually a great working relationship between media and police up there. The find had nothing to do with media leaving, they were found because a sleeping bag and/or boat was spotted. How does that relate to media leaving?

 

[Zella]

I met the cabbie myself and I think his story has a lot of weight. His phone is full of calls from local numbers, he remembers this wasn’t a local or familiar number. It’s definitely worth investigating further. I have a lot more examples that are currently only single sourced so I can’t reveal them as it would out the sources who spoke on background.

The day that the tips flooded in there was absolutely no activity in Gillam, it had appeared to die down there completely and officers in town were placing a lot of weight in those tips. I was in Gillam that day so that’s a first hand observation. Hindsight tells us that it was false but at the time it was as accurate as possible.

I think you should consider becoming a verified insider or, at least, a verified professional. It would give you more leeway in what you are allowed to post and more authority in what you post.

 

[September23]

Aww thanks! I'm kicking myself for not checking the screenshots earlier! In any event, I found them late last night right before bed, was absolutely gobsmacked by that first one, and didn't have time to post but knew I had to share on here with my fellow sleuths.

Yes, thankyou, I also like your sleuthing!

 

[10ofRods]

I never understood that. Why would BS think he was Russian if his dad told him he wasn't? Was he adopted?

After BS's dad left, apparently his mother told him he was "Russian." Keep in mind that Ukraine was part of Russia for decades and many, many people say "Russian" instead of "Ukrainian," often because, well, they were Soviet citizens. During the Soviet period, when speaking to English speakers, all manner of people who are now Bylorussian or Ukrainain or Uzbek, called themselves Russian.

Anyway, even after Ukrainian separation from USSR, not every Ukrainian called themselves Ukrainian (and as I'm sure most know, there's now a civil war over this).

But I think the reason may go deeper. In my own case (adopted), my parents did a similar thing with one of my ethnicities, because they felt one of the nationalities was not as acceptable as a nearby, similar nationality. Kids in these situations, where ethnic identity of friends is more obvious and common, often choose to identify with a more "glamorous" nationality or ethnicity. I can remember my parents meeting someone with my "real" ethnicity and discussing at length whether that person was white, whereas they were telling me I was part Italian, and they considered Italians to be white. I don't know why, I learned later that not everyone does.

Anyway, I'm mostly something else entirely (a Native group, but not the same Native group as either of my adopted parents...but they were way more comfortable with that part of my background). Since I am almost half-European (but not Italian, ha), my parents really tried to emphasize that, for obvious reasons in the place I grew up in.

BTW, when I met my bio-family, the European side told me that we were a "tiny part Russian," but my own research shows it's the Russo side of Ukraine...so I can definitely relate.

 

[aphoto]

I think you should consider becoming a verified insider or, at least, a verified professional. It would give you more leeway in what you are allowed to post and more authority in what you post.

I’ll submit for that process this weekend.

 

[Zella]

I’ll submit for that process this weekend.

Great! I've read your posts with considerable interest but really do think it would help confirm them if you got the verified status.

 

[Gina20]

Did anyone aid and abet KM and BS after the first or second incident? Did they go to Gillam because they knew someone? Did someone help them from a distance? Was anyone helping them financially or otherwise after the "gun violence" near Liard? Do we even know if the charges would have been manslaughter or first-degree
murder?

 

[sandbar]

There is the matter of accountability too though. I don't think the RCMP did anything wrong though. I think based on a lot of wild speculation about someone else being responsible for any or all of the murders, it might be best to put those rumors to rest since even some folks here say there is no evidence that that the two young men did it.

‘Murder is not a private matter’: RCMP owe public more answers about suspected B.C. killers, critics say | The Star

OPINION
In wake of killings and manhunt, RCMP must be transparent about what they do know

By Ben O’Hara-ByrneContributing Columnist
Fri., Aug. 9, 2019timer4 min. read
In wake of killings and manhunt, RCMP must be transparent about what they do know | The Star

 

[Optics]

What did the media do to impede the investigation? I have followed this since the young men were still considered "missing".... I don't recall anything impeding the investigation... not at the moment anyway lol

ETA: From what little we know, I don't think the RCMP found them because the media left. I think they found them because someone saw something and they got lucky. JMO

I have also followed it from Day 1. It would have helped if most media had not ignored the police alerts in the start and published the RCMP first press release, specifically in BC at that time. The Yukon border was right there and Alaska not too far away, it was a sleepy start in those areas - sometimes in the quest to get that 5 second sound bite - media can disturb potential evidence. I'm not painting a brush on all media - but even across Canada media was a little slow on the upstart. MOO

 

[scrappinkat]

I met the cabbie myself and I think his story has a lot of weight. His phone is full of calls from local numbers, he remembers this wasn’t a local or familiar number. It’s definitely worth investigating further. I have a lot more examples that are currently only single sourced so I can’t reveal them as it would out the sources who spoke on background.

The day that the tips flooded in there was absolutely no activity in Gillam, it had appeared to die down there completely and officers in town were placing a lot of weight in those tips. I was in Gillam that day so that’s a first hand observation. Hindsight tells us that it was false but at the time it was as accurate as possible.

Can I ask if you’ve personally met or talked to the gentleman who helped pull the RAV4 out of the mud? I’ve read some of the things he’s said and he seems to quite open and honest about his impressions of them along with the circumstances of helping them. Just curious if you had the chance to form an impression based on face to face interaction.

 

[missy1974]

I think you should consider becoming a verified insider or, at least, a verified professional. It would give you more leeway in what you are allowed to post and more authority in what you post.

@aphoto I hope you consider doing this! It doesn't "out" who you are to us posters, but allows Tricia to verify that you are who you say you are. Here is a link to the process, and the benefits of being verified

Verified Professional and Insider Members

 

[Zella]

Do we even know if the charges would have been manslaughter or first-degree
murder?

SBM I don't know that we will ever know what charges they intended to bring concerning LF and CD. If they release the conclusions of their investigation, we might be able to figure that out. I would be really surprised if it were manslaughter, though. The circumstances to me just don't seem like manslaughter, but that's just MOO. I could easily see second degree murder charges again, to match the LD charge.