Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Kubirai]

RCMP had one job: locate the 2 young men who murdered 3 people in BC. Job done.

RCMP press conferences and press releases suggest they are still investigating three murders, searching for motives, etc.

 

[Moonlitnight]

I wish I did know the taping date, because I thought the same. I don't know however. But, if you look up the preview for the episode, AS is heard saying he has just lost his son, and knows how it feels to lose someone. So it seems as though it was filmed very recently, after Alan somehow knew his son was deceased.

ETA: Which would also be strange because I believe it still hasn't been officially confirmed that the 2 bodies found were those of Kam and Bryer's, but Alan would likely have information that hasn't been made officially public.

"Curiouser and curiouser." This seems like one giant game at times but then I remember what an ugly story it is.

 

[1987]

this is the sketch for man seen by hwy worker.

 

[puppyraiser]

re:keys.... A man convicted of three murders in Ontario had a vehicle key belonging to his 3rd victim on his personal key ring when arrested as a suspect.

I agree with those who think the keys at the burn site of the Rav 4 should have been taken into evidence.

 

[1987]

this is sleeping bag story
How a river guide’s sharp eye, and a sleeping bag, triggered a search that ended the RCMP manhunt

 

[srper2]

Good Lord. I know AS is an adult who consented to this, but that makes me really uncomfortable. And sad that he didn't have anybody he really knew to be with him at that moment.

I don't know what the law in Canada are regarding capacity to consent, but in Australia I would be seriously questioning the ethical standard of the reporters, unfortunately I find I am often doing this!

 

[Vern]

Can you tell me how you would know it's bang on with accuracy? IIRC, it was Australian press that first broke the news about Lucas's death (and a bit about how he died). Does G & M have a competitor of note?

It's my impression that G & M adhere's pretty closely to what is officially released by the government. Are there examples of it doing investigative journalism? When Karla Homolka began her new life, I"m not sure G & M ever covered it (despite other news outlets finding her with three kids). I ask because if G & M is always accurate (but does not cover many stories), that's not necessarily a good thing.

Also, if G & M is offering the same stories, I think the wikipedia articles should reflect the initial journalism, which right now, is attributed (in the Homolka case) to other outlets.

Well, I did say it's "usually" pretty bang on with the accuracy vice "always". Reading papers each morning is something I do as part of the position that I'm employed in - along with various messages and departmental-wide stuff. I've noticed that the G&M rarely needs to post a retraction or correction to an article as opposed to, say, the Sun network papers, Tor Star, National Post etc. They are also the Cdn distributor for the NY Times.

I view the G&M as a centre-right paper. It's reportage seems to be much less biased than Sun, Tor Star (affectionately - or not - known as The Red Star), NP, etc that are based nationwide.

I mentioned some of their "breaks" and investigative journalism such as the SNC Lavalin Scandal and W-R … all of which the government denied - until they could deny no more. G&M also uncovered a previous Government's AdScam which resulted in trials of some persons involved.

As for the Australian Press breaking the cause of death; yes they did. The RCMP had asked for the CoDs to be withheld though I will point out. The Cdn Press (all of it, not just the G&M) tend follow what LE Agencies request when an investigation is on-going which it was at that time. IMO, some Cdn press also knew the CoD but chose to stick with Cdn press standards and not publish. Just as the Homolka trial, all Cdn Press tracked it and reported, but the 'in-depth' details had to become known to Canadians via the US Press as this country had a publication ban on.

G&M tends to cover politics, the Feds, international items involving Canada, etc etc (which is why I read the papers in the mornings), law and business. Less of the Keeping up with the Ks entertainment and sports. More actual "news" and less "fluff". Any national newspaper in Canada has sources on the Hill. They use them too. Some sources are better than others.

The G&M is the national paper of record.

Oh, and IIRC, no news outlet found Karla - an author did and wrote a book about it; only once the book was ready to launch did the press get a wiff of her being found down south. And, when she was then "re-found" by a single reporter from the local Montreal Gazette … and every other paper in Canada picked it up from there, not just the G&M.

 

[missy1974]

I don't believe all that happened until after the burnt RAV4 was found. The car was torched, then the big search team arrived. They were not there ahead of BS and KM.

The question is simple: did the RCMP ever visit the scene where the RAV4 burned, or did they just pack up the vehicle at the towing lot and send it away? Beginning to doubt that any forensic team went to the ditch and roadway until recently.

I think they would have had to go to that scene... check for signs of where they went? tracking dogs? something?

I know one thing (if we believe Renata, which I have no reason not to)... they did not go there before today to collect the keys I'm in the 'they should have collected them sooner or right away' camp, I said that when we first saw a picture of them, just because they are dead, it doesn't change my opinion. It may be additional evidence that links them to Chynna and Lucas' deaths. Since we don't know what vehicle they belong to, and if they match the van, then it may put some doubts that they are responsible for their deaths aside.

 

[Zella]

I don't know what the law in Canada are regarding capacity to consent, but in Australia I would be seriously questioning the ethical standard of the reporters, but I find I am often doing this!

As someone who has been on the other side getting a painful notification of a family death, I would personally feel very uncomfortable in that moment as the reporter and wouldn't want to conduct that interview.

 

[CanadianMade]

Very early on, there was a MSM article that said there was a blue mini van left at the scene, it was very strange, and it was never mentioned again. I will try to locate the article but it may take some time.

Which scene are you talking about though? I was initially under the impression the discussion was about the man witnessed speaking with L and C, but as far as I can tell I was mistaken as the person who was having the discussion linked an article to a separate incident. I think I just might have someone on 'ignore' and missed part of the conversation is all.

 

[Kubirai]

Because it was easier to find pics of Kam and Bryer on security videos than search for the jeep and the bearded man, that is ok to not bother about?

RCMP were certainly looking at videos from Highway 97 and Fort Nelson cameras for the Jeep Cherokee between July 15 and July 19 at least.

Why? Because Kam and Bryer were NOT "persons of interest" until July 19.

 

[missy1974]

When we discussed this intensively several days ago, a mechanic (and others) weighed in that the car key was clearly a Toyota key. It is in fact identical to the key I had made as an extra for my Toyota, so I have no reason to disagree.

The other keys look like file cabinet keys (or perhaps other cabinets), a house key, and then, there's a leatherman tool (which botanists like and carry).

The keys were found outside a Toyota RAV4, IIRC. The van was not stolen and didn't work, so it makes little sense for K/B to carry around an extra set of keys (they could have just taken the leatherman tool).

It seems really obvious that the keys are to the burned RAV4, as they were also burned and at the same locale. No DNA or fingerprints would be preserved, so...who knows? I doubt the RCMP is going to go to a lot of trouble to identify keys further.

Now that the keys are, presumably, in evidence (or did the reporter keep them?) I would think that RCMP would know whether they were the professor's keys. They sure aren't going to tell the public, in any case.

I agree that it is most likely a Toyota key, but I don't know that for certain. I remember the discussion about the key and googling it, etc. But are we to believe that the RCMP sat there and googled it? consulted someone about what key it was? And then decided to just leave them?

I think the RCMP did a good job and they did find them, but it doesn't mean I can't be a little critical and see a mistake was made here. I wonder if these 2 had been found alive if this "evidence" would mean more or some would still not care that they were left behind? JMO

 

[copkid]

When we discussed this intensively several days ago, a mechanic (and others) weighed in that the car key was clearly a Toyota key. It is in fact identical to the key I had made as an extra for my Toyota, so I have no reason to disagree.

The other keys look like file cabinet keys (or perhaps other cabinets), a house key, and then, there's a leatherman tool (which botanists like and carry).

The keys were found outside a Toyota RAV4, IIRC. The van was not stolen and didn't work, so it makes little sense for K/B to carry around an extra set of keys (they could have just taken the leatherman tool).

It seems really obvious that the keys are to the burned RAV4, as they were also burned and at the same locale. No DNA or fingerprints would be preserved, so...who knows? I doubt the RCMP is going to go to a lot of trouble to identify keys further.

Now that the keys are, presumably, in evidence (or did the reporter keep them?) I would think that RCMP would know whether they were the professor's keys. They sure aren't going to tell the public, in any case.

The file cabinet keys were the ones I found to be of interest. I have driven in several vans much like Lucas & Chynna's van and they often had locking cupboards that opened with those type of keys? JMO

 

[srper2]

RCMP had one job: locate the 2 young men who murdered 3 people in BC. Job done.

KM and BS haven't been charged with murdering CD and LF, so they haven't finished their job and they have stated they are still continuing to investigate.

 

[1987]

The file cabinet keys were the ones I found to be of interest. I have driven in several vans much like Lucas & Chynna's van and they often had locking cupboards that opened with those type of keys? JMO

that style and year model use the door key for anything that locks on the inside that was factory installed.

 

[Gina20]

I see no reason to assume that RCMP are incompetent when they do not explain their investigative decisions to bystanders.

Oh, it's not bystanders and WSers they need to worry about. It's the U.S. and Australian governments they will have to answer to eventually. Our questions here will prepare them for much tougher questions from a much tougher crowd. I can't imagine how it will go if they tell those people that a question is "not relevant". No, that would not sit well.

 

[Francie Starr]

Given that it appears that C & L met their deaths at some time between reportedly being seen alive at 11:30 pm on the 14th and the discovery of their bodies the next morning at about 7:30 am on the 15th, one can presume their tragic deaths occurred at some time during that awful night. Does anyone else think it possible that BS and CM could have happened along at some time during the darkness of night AFTER their murders and robbed their seemingly "abandoned" van of valuables without ever seeing the two bodies lying on the grass outside?

 

[ldlager]

Seems like a lot of local Gillam people want to be in the spotlight and to take credit for having some role in the investigation. The sleeping bag was no where near the bodies and RCMP are refusing to back up claims made by one of the locals as having located the bodies.

"RCMP did not provide any further information Thursday, but Cpl. Julie Courchaine emailed a statement denying a Globe and Mail report that the force had hired a professional tracker prior to Wednesday's discovery. And she would not confirm reports crediting a tourist boat operator with finding a sleeping bag on the Nelson River shoreline last Friday."​

Traumatized Gillam, Fox Lake residents get back to life after manhunt

Actually it sounds to me like “Seems like the RCMP doesn’t want Gillam people to be in the spotlight and to get any credit for having some role in the investigation”

 

[cdnjan]

As I recall, the priority was making sure no one else, including LE, was killed by these two guys. They also wanted to capturing them alive. As I recall, large numbers of LE were patrolling the area, with weapons, dogs, airplanes and boats. There was all the logistics of getting hundreds of people up there, housing them, feeding them, getting all the equipment up there, interviewing people, setting up road blocks, collecting masses of information, creating search plans and systematcally mapping everything they did.

Meanwhile, the media were standing around, eating beef jerky and taking a few photos. But they found a pair of keys! And saved us all from those incompetent police idiots. Thank god we have journalists to save the day, our heroes.

Your right so much to do and not enough folks to do it. Considering seeing the video of the fellas searching today and completely vanishing in seconds ... Maybe it was a really bad idea to be sifting dirt when in a "sitting duck" scenario. Perhaps the site was being protected from afar until the possibility of danger had passed?

 

[Jessthinkin]

I have some insight and opinion I’d like to share


The truck and camper.

Port Alberni is a mill town and was formed around the logging industry. This is a town where an old pickup truck would have more value than a new convertible sports car. There is a notable “redneck” culture on northern Vancouver Island that stems from its fishing and logging heritage.


The diesel dodge that KM was driving would be considered to be high value in this area. Its not uncommon to see mid 90’s dodge diesels like KMs sell for $10 000-$14 000CAD depending on condition. Based on the photos I’ve seen it is a 4x4 and in very good shape so this would be a highly coveted vehicle for this area and most of Vancouver Island (with the exception of Victoria area).

The camper is a Bigfoot which means it is a 2 piece fibreglass. This is a much for valuable unit than a more common camper constructed out of wood.

My estimated street value for that vehicle/camper in this area would be around $18-20 000CAD.

For a young male on Vancouver Island, this would be a highly desired vehicle.

I still haven’t found out whether the truck was his or if he borrowed it.

At some point in time, the value of the truck (and computer) to KM and BS was greatly diminished by other circumstances.

If you look at a picture of KM and BS with the butterflies (instagram), you will notice in the background the boom/mast/seat for a self-loading logging truck.

This was a big tip for me in helping to understand where they came from. I was able to pursue this and it brought about some new insight. Some of that I cannot share due to the rules. But that information is helpful and for those who are interested you won’t have to look hard to see where I went.

Based on my research, I’m of the opinion that KM *should* have had an easier time getting local employment (that was better than Walmart) through family connections. I will leave it at that.

2)Bryers Instagram photo of him squatting with the vodka bottle

It’s evident BS was searching for his identity (as we all do) and latched onto slavic culture. He was interested in his own heritage according to AS.

Do you see how BS is squatting, wearing the flat hat? He is only missing Adidas pants, and he would be a “gopnik” which I believe he is emulating.

You can search gopnik and get a better understanding of what it means, but you will discover its embedded in Eastern European pop culture. It is also a big part of gaming.

“Squatting Slavs in Track Suits” is a great facebook page that posts regular fodder relating to the slavic gopnik culture. (Also is Babushka)

Guns are a big part of slavic culture.

I would not consider BS’s interest in slavic culture alarming based on my own local experiences and understanding of generational pop culture. This is fairly mainstream stuff for gamers. Looking at the pieces from my (admittedly) narrow viewpoint, I would opine that BS’s interest in slavic culture was a way of him finding his own identity in a world where that may not have been so easy for him.
Just wanted to touched on those two points.

I keep coming back to the bond the two shared and I think thats an important dynamic for us to dive into.

I have lots more to add to this but I will keep it light today.

So pleased with how well run and respectful this forum is, thanks to all.


Grateful for the coverage of LD and the early photos of him. Hoping for the same from LF and CD, condolences to all.

Welcome! Looking forward to further insights!