Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Zella]

Does anyone know how long they were on the run for? I'm bad at the timeline stuff.

If they reached their physical, environmental limit and decided on suicide, doesn't that seem awfully quick? I mean, they are young so could maybe handle a lot (I'm guessing here).

I ask because there's a tiny, tiny part of me that wonders if the gravity of their crimes hit them. IF suicide, maybe one of them had a conscience and didn't want to face the victims families and their own families.

Hard to say, IF suicide if it was just an easy way out or some mental anguish took over. I mean realistically if they had ammo they could've easily had more victims, they probably encountered many people in their path. Early on I thought this was a killing spree but now I'm unsure and they could've had more victims for notoriety (assuming they had ammo).

Basic timeline is they left home around July 12, the first murders happened July 14/15, the second murder and their burnt truck was discovered July 19. I believe they were declared missing around July 21 and then suspects on July 23. The car was abandoned on July 22.

If they killed themselves shortly thereafter, they never knew they were declared suspects. So, it was roughly at least a week they were on the prowl after killing LF and CD and about 4 days after burning their truck and 2 days after being listed as missing. If they only recently killed themselves, they were on the lam for approximately 3 weeks.

I think it is very likely they at least became frightened as they realized the implications of what they had done and as media attention started to focus on the crimes, even before they were tied to anything. It is interesting to me they apparently stopped killing people. I have wondered if they had no more opportunities or something freaked them out and made them stop.

 

[MistyWaters]

Duplicate

 

[dameagatha]

Wow, did Kam really say that? I never read or heard that before! Interesting choice of words - joy ride. I think of joy ride as in a stolen car but that's just me. You think he'd say vacation, adventure, wanting to see the wilderness, etc. I think I'm looking too much into it, I just don't think I've ever used the word joy ride lol, we always said "roadtrip".

The man helping them push the stolen Rav out of the mud said something to the effect of, ‘Your parents will be mad you ruined their car.’ & Kam relied, ‘They told us to go on a long joy ride.’ Or so the man said he said. So it’s not just you.

 

[Schmoosh]

I believe the guy who was helping them out of the mud saw the fix they were in and jokingly asked if mom and dad would be mad about the joy ride and then Kam told him mom and dad told them to go on a long joyride.

So, I think his choice of words was more about parroting back what the other guy said.

I did find it interesting that was his response, though. One of his friends in an interview said KM was "really funny," so I assume he might have been quicker about banter than BS. Apparently, BS then made some remark about missing McDonald's, which literally does seem to have come out of nowhere. Maybe he was hungry and wishing a McDonald's was nearby.

Around 10 a.m., Ste-Croix decided he would go out to help the two get the vehicle out of the mud.

"Mom and dad's going to be pissed," Ste-Croix told the two men as he drove up. He said he figured they were local teens out for a rip in their parents' Toyota RAV4, which was stuck and covered in mud.

"They looked at me and said, 'No, mom and dad told me to go for a long joy ride," Ste-Croix said.

He said the three of them then laughed.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudb...n-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940

 

[srper2]

I still feel that they had nothing to do with CD and LF deaths, but I am now starting to think that whatever happened to Mr. D would have been horrific to most people with him dying, made them panic, steal his less cumbersome vehicle, leave most of their valued items behind (computers), burnt in their vehicle (probably not realising it could be traced), deciding that they would no longer need them, driving into the wilderness to the "end of the road" and disappearing, killing themselves, thinking that nobody would ever know what happened to them and perhaps not even realising that they had been tracked to where they ended it or that they were accused of the other murders, being dead before the entourage arrived?? Also, if they were really seen hitchhiking in different directions what was going on there? Did one of them, or both get picked up and driven back to their (possibly broken down) truck and then the person who gave them a lift (who could also have murdered CD and LF) do something to them and/or Mr. Dyck, resulting in them fleeing in Mr. Dyck's car and somebody else possibly burning their truck? This could explain the fast exit, leaving behind valuable items like computers etc (just some more theories!)

 

[Trooper]

Basic timeline is they left home around July 12, the first murders happened July 14/15, the second murder and their burnt truck was discovered July 19. I believe they were declared missing around July 21 and then suspects on July 23. The car was abandoned on July 22.

If they killed themselves shortly thereafter, they never knew they were declared suspects. So, it was roughly at least a week they were on the prowl after killing LF and CD and about 4 days after burning their truck and 2 days after being listed as missing. If they only recently killed themselves, they were on the lam for approximately 3 weeks.

I think it is very likely they at least became frightened as they realized the implications of what they had done and as media attention started to focus on the crimes, even before they were tied to anything. It is interesting to me they apparently stopped killing people. I have wondered if they had no more opportunities or something freaked them out and made them stop.

Maybe they became sickened of their own acts. After all, what was left? Continuing killing was the only avenue. Giving up to the RCMP was not , apparently, an option. Both must have agreed to that. Living rough, eating rough, sleeping rough, this loses it's novelty very quickly.

Giving up , and going thru the long long years in some far away prison, year in , year out, same thing over and over every day, being told what to do, what to eat, when to eat, when to run, when to walk for a lifetime. .. an unappealing future.

Perhaps it wasn't a difficult decision. Hard to put oneself in that situation, but it doesn't strike me as odd they either of them thought this way out was in any way an impossibility.

They were not disorganized killers, on the contrary, they were highly organized, up to a point. Considering their age , quite a considerable point of one track thinking from two individuals, an unusual event. Even among killers, it's rare for such apparent agreement between them being adhered to.

 

[Zella]

Around 10 a.m., Ste-Croix decided he would go out to help the two get the vehicle out of the mud.

"Mom and dad's going to be pissed," Ste-Croix told the two men as he drove up. He said he figured they were local teens out for a rip in their parents' Toyota RAV4, which was stuck and covered in mud.

"They looked at me and said, 'No, mom and dad told me to go for a long joy ride," Ste-Croix said.

He said the three of them then laughed.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudb...n-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940

You're right! He mentioned "mom and dad," and that's what KM parroted back. Sorry for my confusion! I knew he parroted back something. LOL

Will edit my other comment accordingly.

 

[Francie Starr]

There was a full moon on the 16th so it likely wasn't as dark as all that.

Do you happen to have a link for that? I've been trying to find a weather archive to consider the cloud conditions that night.

 

[JudgeJudi]

As someone who has been on the other side getting a painful notification of a family death, I would personally feel very uncomfortable in that moment as the reporter and wouldn't want to conduct that interview.

Here's Sarah Abo's profile. While I'm sure it would have been difficult to interview AS, they don't get to pick and choose their assignments. You'll see this is not her first rodeo and 2016 would have been far more confronting.

https://au.linkedin.com/in/sarah-abo-62114b35

 

[Trooper]

Does anyone know how long they were on the run for? I'm bad at the timeline stuff.

If they reached their physical, environmental limit and decided on suicide, doesn't that seem awfully quick? I mean, they are young so could maybe handle a lot (I'm guessing here).

I ask because there's a tiny, tiny part of me that wonders if the gravity of their crimes hit them. IF suicide, maybe one of them had a conscience and didn't want to face the victims families and their own families.

Hard to say, IF suicide if it was just an easy way out or some mental anguish took over. I mean realistically if they had ammo they could've easily had more victims, they probably encountered many people in their path. Early on I thought this was a killing spree but now I'm unsure and they could've had more victims for notoriety (assuming they had ammo).

I still think it was a killing spree, hampered by the unplanned for and , I think not even thought of, the very swift realization by the RCMP that they were the killers. I've thought that was a superb piece of policing for that to become apparent and then acted upon, and , it had the desired ( desired by the RCMP) effect. The killing stopped.

From then on, the focus was to escape. They appeared to be rushed into this part of the overall concept. I don't think it occurred to Kam or Bry that they would be twigged as fugitives/ suspects so quickly, considering the situation. I think the purpose was that they would be seen as missing victims , at the very outside, not suspects at that early stage of the game.

 

[Zella]

Here's Sarah Abo's profile. While I'm sure it would have been difficult to interview AS, they don't get to pick and choose their assignments. You'll see this is not her first rodeo and 2016 would have been far more confronting.

https://au.linkedin.com/in/sarah-abo-62114b35

Yes, I understand they can't pick their assignments, but I just could not in good conscience interview a man who had just been told his son was found dead, regardless of the circumstances. I know it happens and is part of the business, but it's not something I could be a part of.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I believe the guy who was helping them out of the mud saw the fix they were in and jokingly asked if mom and dad would be mad about the joy ride and then Kam told him mom and dad told them to go on a long joyride.

So, I think his choice of words was more about parroting back what the other guy said.

I did find it interesting that was his response, though. One of his friends in an interview said KM was "really funny," so I assume he might have been quicker about banter than BS. Apparently, BS then made some remark about missing McDonald's, which literally does seem to have come out of nowhere. Maybe he was hungry and wishing a McDonald's was nearby.

Correction: It was the part about "mom and dad" he was parroting back, not the word "joy ride." The other guy only observed "mom and dad will be pissed," and that's what prompted Kam's joy ride comment.

Ah okay thanks for clarifying, very interesting! I've missed so many pockets of info in this case and always catching up. Just so messed up, Kam sounds like he might've had a glimmer of potential in life.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

This line has always struck me as sort of like, a teenager attempting to sound like what a villain in a movie would sound like. Anyone else agree?



I have a feeling these guys discussed suicide extensively in the past, long before they ever decided to commit this spree.

Agreed that at least nobody else got hurt, including accidental injuries in the dangerous search effort.



I mean...it can be both. I think they totally deserved this unpleasant end. I also am horrified by it.



Maybe even they didn't have a clear explanation for why they did it. I mean, they were teenagers.

Excellent points!

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think nothing will be found because dying was not how they thought it would end. I can’t get the point of driving through four provinces in 3 days just to burn their stolen car and then die by suicide especially if they weren’t aware they’d been named suspects.

Well I don't know what they expected....

Oh, they knew they were suspects if they survived long enough to hear the helicopters. Plus there was talk in the media kind of side-eyeing them leading up to them being named.

If they reached their physical, environmental limit and decided on suicide, doesn't that seem awfully quick? I mean, they are young so could maybe handle a lot (I'm guessing here).

I ask because there's a tiny, tiny part of me that wonders if the gravity of their crimes hit them. IF suicide, maybe one of them had a conscience and didn't want to face the victims families and their own families.

Hard to say, IF suicide if it was just an easy way out or some mental anguish took over. I mean realistically if they had ammo they could've easily had more victims, they probably encountered many people in their path. Early on I thought this was a killing spree but now I'm unsure and they could've had more victims for notoriety (assuming they had ammo).

It's the bugs that drove them to it (semi-serious).

I would like to think the gravity of their crimes hit them. Maybe that is overly optimistic. I think there is evidence to suggest they may have ultimately regretted what they did. Like if they knew it was over and they liked killing, why not wait for the cops to show up and try to take some of them out? Why no additional victims along the way as is usually seen in a spree?

As I said before, I think Lucas and Chynna's murders were either a thrill killing, or a robbery for thrill gone wrong. Prof Dyck's murder was a panicked attempt to distance themselves from the first murders and they likely got no thrill from doing it. But since it was charged as second degree murder, maybe it wasn't even planned to kill him.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

He was replying to the man who pulled them out of a bog, who said something about their parents not being too happy if they found out they were joyriding in the car and Kam replied with something about their parents telling them to go on a joyride (probably nervously trying to sound unworried and act like all was cool)??

Thank you, I see, I missed lots of details in this story! Crazy, I bet that man feels lucky to not be a victim.

 

[Zella]

Ah okay thanks for clarifying, very interesting! I've missed so many pockets of info in this case and always catching up. Just so messed up, Kam sounds like he might've had a glimmer of potential in life.

You're welcome--I'm sorry I got confused. Glad @Schmoosh and @srper2 set my straight.

And I agree--he really had a lot going for him, it seems. He came from a nice family and, by all accounts, could be very pleasant and fun to be around. I can see how BS ended up down this road--his home life sounds miserable and he was manifesting a lot of red flags--but KM baffles me.

Relistening to the interview now and it does seem like Kam was taking the lead. The guy said the first thing he asked was if they'd called someone and KM was the one who answered and said no. Then he was the first to respond to the mom and dad comment. He also took the lead in getting back into the Rav4 while the guy was pulling them out, but I suspect that is because BS really couldn't drive.

 

[Zella]

Maybe nobody else finds this odd, but I thought it was kind of strange when he pulled up and they were stuck that they had the doors of the vehicle open. I wonder why. If I was stuck in mud and standing outside assessing the situation, I'd probably close the doors of the vehicle just to avoid getting any mud in the car while I was trying to unstick myself. They'd been stuck for over an hour, apparently, so it wasn't like they just got out.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Basic timeline is they left home around July 12, the first murders happened July 14/15, the second murder and their burnt truck was discovered July 19. I believe they were declared missing around July 21 and then suspects on July 23. The car was abandoned on July 22.

If they killed themselves shortly thereafter, they never knew they were declared suspects. So, it was roughly at least a week they were on the prowl after killing LF and CD and about 4 days after burning their truck and 2 days after being listed as missing. If they only recently killed themselves, they were on the lam for approximately 3 weeks.

I think it is very likely they at least became frightened as they realized the implications of what they had done and as media attention started to focus on the crimes, even before they were tied to anything. It is interesting to me they apparently stopped killing people. I have wondered if they had no more opportunities or something freaked them out and made them stop.

So around 3 weeks.... I'm interested to know why not more victims too.

Not to sound crass, but at the beginning I thought it was careless killing and for attention (burning vehicles mostly). Maybe it started that way but they could've had more victims easy if access to guns/ammo. I mean they could've killed the person at the store they went to and robbed it, no? Could've killed the guy after he dug them out.

Makes me wonder if an altercation/inferiority issue happened with the couple at the gas station or on the roadside that triggered that first murder. I'm torn on what I think know gah!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Yes, I understand they can't pick their assignments, but I just could not in good conscience interview a man who had just been told his son was found dead, regardless of the circumstances. I know it happens and is part of the business, but it's not something I could be a part of.

I couldn't do it either. I'd be in tears before the interviewee.

 

[Zella]

I couldn't do it either. I'd be in tears before the interviewee.

Me, too--and I don't even cry easily!