Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[derbywinner]

Our fishing out here is amazing. I can drive 10 mins., cast a rod and we got salmon !!

Alouette River; Dolly, Chum, Coho, Stealhead

 

[otto]

I grew up with Clifford Olson, and david shearing, and the highway of tears; I'm not delusional. None of this makes sense. You have to live here to understand. Bad stuff happens; not like this.

The missing piece, something that is more of a new phenomenon, is the young male dyad that kills together with very little reason.

A couple of weeks ago, 18 and 19 year teens killed a complete stranger in Italy and then ran away. There are many more examples this, but this looks to be the biggest crime of this type in Canada.

Italy - Finnegan Elder, 19 & Gabriel Hjorth, 18, US students arrested, police murder, 26 July 2019

 

[srper2]

That damage could have been caused by the boat flipping over and the submerged rim grinding against rocks.

In a post way back, I remember someone explaining that people remove the middle seat sometimes for space etc, but if not done properly and reinforced at the sides, the boat ends up ruined.

 

[dameagatha]

Everything is circumstantial at this point. They want to show intent by building a case based on the person's history. But ultimately, if there was a court case, a lot of this wouldn't be admissible or have relevance. Even if one of them had a book on the Charles Manson murders, it doesn't mean they would turn to murder. And for thrill killers, they stopped in BC. You'd have expected a trail of murder extending into Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. The m.o. for the murder of Dyck seems different from Fowler and Deese, that's why it seems like the work of different people.

Everything might be circumstantial that is in the public domain. That doesn’t mean direct evidence doesn’t exist in the police investigation. They have not said anything about anyone’s history. A court case would not be based on web discussions. There have been no details made public about the murder of Prof Dyck, so how can the m.o. be different from the other murders?

 

[Kubirai]

Was it a large river like the Nelson River though? All the photos I've seen of the river show a fairly wide, and non-rapids river. In fact, if you didn't know it was a river, you'd think it was a lake. It's also not clear where they would have put the boat into the water, the whole area looks like it's a sloped cliff. Somehow I think the boat was meant to be tied to them, but they can't connect the dots.

Videos have been posted, showing actual Nelson River adventures. Hayes River was used in the past because Nelson River was dangerous. Check Wikipedia articles. Anyway, all your questions were asked and answered in old threads.

 

[dameagatha]

We can't generalise a behaviour to a group/population based on the behaviours of a tiny sample. There are tens of millions of people who play all these games around the world (and hang out in their parents basements etc), but very few become criminals or murderers! One constant theme with murders/shootings is access to a gun, not access to a computer game!

I don’t understand why you quoted my comment.

 

[otto]

So are you saying that the person who says they stood in the burnt spot and showed us where it was on the map was wrong? The burnt RAV4 was north of 290?

The picture you posted shows a boat in the background, not a building.

This is the map we, people who comment here, crowd sourced to locate related points. I am just the technician who builds the map.

I moved some of the words. The power line must be there somewhere

 

[Shlock Homes]

I don't think anyone said they did or they inherently would if they did.

I mean, to be perfectly frank, I own a book on Manson. I would venture to say a lot of people on this forum do, seeing as it is for true crime buffs. I would sincerely hope my library would never be used against me. If it is, I'm guilty of mass murder.

That doesn't mean someone is a murderer.

Bryer and Kam had interests that a lot of people who never kill anybody do. But they--and especially Bryer--also manifested more worrying red-flag behavior. It's the combined effect of those worrying things that is being considered, not one of them in isolation.

But like you say, a lot of people exhibit certain behaviours and interests that may seem like they could lead to them committing crime, but they don't. Even the red-flag behaviour you speak of doesn't mean he could turn into a cold blooded killer. Especially one who seems to have been good in covering their tracks. Also, it doesn't explain how Kam McCleod could be wrapped up in all of this and not be bothered by the actions. A lot of the talk has been about Bryer being the one with some history. But nothing about Kam. All we really know is the two knew each other for years, and worked at Walmart prior to their trip north to either Whitehorse or Alberta (per Bryer's dad). Seems strange that they had that plan, then randomly started killing.

 

[KR72]

Videos have been posted, showing actual Nelson River adventures. Hayes River was used in the past because Nelson River was dangerous. Check Wikipedia articles. Anyway, all your questions were asked and answered in old threads.

It's amazing. The Hayes is also dangerous and turbulent, but it was easier for the fur traders to navigate because the Nelson's even worse. There's an entire reason why the Nelson is capable of generating so much hydro-electricity.

 

[musicaljoke]

It looks like the rim was also ripped out. That takes a lot of effort. KM and BS did that, or the boat was already missing that when they possibly took it?

I would think that the damage to the gunwale happened when the boat was bent. The rivets would pop out and the aluminum gunwale would crack and break. It may have smashed a few more times or caught on something as it was pushed through the rapids. Aluminum gunwales are not really all that strong. If you've ever owned an aluminum snow shovel, you'll have an idea how easy it is to crack.

 

[FactFinder3000]

I do think I've slowly been making sense of this whole thing.

My theory:

The murder of Lucas and Chynna was unplanned. We shall leave the motive out for now, but they ended up murdering Lucas and Chynna and took off. A few days later they became absolutely convinced that there were going to be convicted of the crime. Perhaps they realized, as somebody theorized earlier today, that they had left their fingerprints. Maybe they thought too many cars drove by and saw them. Who knows, but they became absolutely convinced that their goose was cooked, so to speak. They vowed not to be taken alive. Of course they had to ditch the truck and camper, because it was easily spotted.

 

[Kubirai]

But I know I read that Kam and Bryer also were camped there at the same time.

No such information has been published. We don't know where KM/BS stayed from July 12 to July 18.

 

[Seattle1]

I'm on the fence with Fowler and Deese. I read way back after they were killed about camping in Pink Mountain. Googled it and yes Fowler and Deese did camp there. But I know I read that Kam and Bryer also were camped there at the same time. So I'm kind of sketched because of that.

I'm not understanding your post that the couple "were killed about camping in Pink Mountain."

What was wrong that it got them killed?

Their murder by the teens would make more sense to me if they were previously known to each other. If the teens met the couple at Pink Mountain earlier, and recognized their van on the side of the road, and stopped. If that was the case, the couple's guard would be down when they recognized the teens at the van.

 

[derbywinner]

I don’t know why people are debating this, but there’s a reason why @derbywinner is less keen than some of you about calling Port Alberni a port. Before correcting him/her, it might be worth noting that he/she is speaking as someone who has worked for a major terminal operation in Vancouver.

Vancouver is a major commercial port operation. Port Alberni is legally a port, but commercially it is insignificant. If you look at your link, it mostly runs some marinas and three berths for the export of local lumber products.

Sorry, but I’m with @derbywinner. Vancouver is a port, Port Alberni is a white elephant and a drain on taxpayers, which is why it is desperately looking for business

Not that any of this matters, except in terms of Port Alberni employment opportunities.

I don’t know why people are debating this, but there’s a reason why @derbywinner is less keen than some of you about calling Port Alberni a port. Before correcting him/her, it might be worth noting that he/she is speaking as someone who has worked for a major terminal operation in Vancouver.

Vancouver is a major commercial port operation. Port Alberni is legally a port, but commercially it is insignificant. If you look at your link, it mostly runs some marinas and three berths for the export of local lumber products.

Sorry, but I’m with @derbywinner. Vancouver is a port, Port Alberni is a white elephant and a drain on taxpayers, which is why it is desperately looking for business

Not that any of this matters, except in terms of Port Alberni employment opportunities.

Thank you ! I'm not trying to be rude or obstinate, just I worked for the largest terminal in Canada. If your not here I want you to understand the demographics and so on without Google

 

[FactFinder3000]

This is the map we, people who comment here, crowd sourced to locate related points. I am just the technician who builds the map.

I moved some of the words. The power line must be there somewhere

View attachment 197911

View attachment 197912

Someone posted a very specific spot for the RAV4 and said they stood in the burnt out spot. Maybe that post was removed. There did not seem to be power poles near the spot they said, though, so I'm still not sure exactly where it was found.

It would make a difference as to whether they could have wiped out taking a corner or not. Hopefully they will repost and perhaps elaborate. (They were recently verified.)

 

[srper2]

I'm on the fence with Fowler and Deese. I read way back after they were killed about camping in Pink Mountain. Googled it and yes Fowler and Deese did camp there. But I know I read that Kam and Bryer also were camped there at the same time. So I'm kind of sketched because of that.

I have never seen this, do you recall where you read this? I would really like to have a look, as this could change the whole course of the case?

 

[musicaljoke]

Was it a large river like the Nelson River though? All the photos I've seen of the river show a fairly wide, and non-rapids river. In fact, if you didn't know it was a river, you'd think it was a lake. It's also not clear where they would have put the boat into the water, the whole area looks like it's a sloped cliff. Somehow I think the boat was meant to be tied to them, but they can't connect the dots.

There have been some videos posted of the rapids, and they are powerful. The local residents didn't expect that the suspects would survive them.

But, the boat might not be connected to the suspects. We don't know.

 

[Shlock Homes]

Videos have been posted, showing actual Nelson River adventures. Hayes River was used in the past because Nelson River was dangerous. Check Wikipedia articles. Anyway, all your questions were asked and answered in old threads.

The Nelson river is a long river. I'm sure it has dangerous sections, with serious rapids. But going by what we see in the photos of the area of the search, it's not the heavily flowing, rapids filled river at that point. It's much wider, and I'm assuming deeper. We even saw footage of a someone in diving gear wading through the water as they looked for evidence. A river with a dangerous pull would not allow for that. I think we're trying too hard to find an explanation as to where they would have gotten the boat, who ripped out the middle seat, and what caused it to buckle in the middle. I think it really just adds to the mystery of what happened to them, especially when the police are not committed to any scenario that brought them to their final resting spot.
This video shows the river. While it looks like it has a strong current, I don't see anything resembling rapids that could seriously damage a boat.

 

[otto]

I do think I've slowly been making sense of this whole thing.

My theory:

The murder of Lucas and Chynna was unplanned. We shall leave the motive out for now, but they ended up murdering Lucas and Chynna and took off. A few days later they became absolutely convinced that there were going to be convicted of the crime. Perhaps they realized, as somebody theorized earlier today, that they had left their fingerprints. Maybe they thought too many cars drove by and saw them. Who knows, but they became absolutely convinced that their goose was cooked, so to speak. They vowed not to be taken alive. Of course they had to ditch the truck and camper, because it was easily spotted.

This makes sense. The murders became big news on July 18, they murdered and stole the Rav4 the following day.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Thank you ! I'm not trying to be rude or obstinate, just I worked for the largest terminal in Canada. If your not here I want you to understand the demographics and so on without Google

Yes, and when I saw who you’ve worked for, my reaction was “Good, someone who knows what he’s talking about”. So I looked at what is actually going on at Port Alberni. Thanks.

Unfortunately, knowing what you’re talking about is not a guarantee that people will listen