Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[derbywinner]

Real salmon fishermen fly fish.

Indeed, on the Newfoundland river that my summer home is on, casting for salmon and trout is illegal, also cheating

Yeah well in your home in Newfoundland you were banned from catching your fish for dinner. Off the Grand Banks massive trawlers were allowed to rape the sea but local fishermen couldn't catch their dinner. Do you know what I'm allowed to fish for here

 

[Zella]

All we really know is the two knew each other for years, and worked at Walmart prior to their trip north to either Whitehorse or Alberta (per Bryer's dad). Seems strange that they had that plan, then randomly started killing.

SBM

That's ignoring a lot of information that is out there, and their behavior is really not that strange or even unprecedented within the context of dyad killers.

 

[derbywinner]

Yes, and when I saw who you’ve worked for, my reaction was “Good, someone who knows what he’s talking about”.

Unfortunately, knowing what you’re talking about is not a guarantee that people will listen

Very true but she doesn't need people to listen. Just don't want to mean or overbearing

 

[otto]

Someone posted a very specific spot for the RAV4 and said they stood in the burnt out spot. Maybe that post was removed. There did not seem to be power poles near the spot they said, though, so I'm still not sure exactly where it was found.

It would make a difference as to whether they could have wiped out taking a corner or not. Hopefully they will repost and perhaps elaborate. (They were recently verified.)

That spot is on the map. It was @aphoto, the photojournalist, who provided the car location.

 

[NJSleuth91]

But like you say, a lot of people exhibit certain behaviours and interests that may seem like they could lead to them committing crime, but they don't. Even the red-flag behaviour you speak of doesn't mean he could turn into a cold blooded killer. Especially one who seems to have been good in covering their tracks. Also, it doesn't explain how Kam McCleod could be wrapped up in all of this and not be bothered by the actions. A lot of the talk has been about Bryer being the one with some history. But nothing about Kam. All we really know is the two knew each other for years, and worked at Walmart prior to their trip north to either Whitehorse or Alberta (per Bryer's dad). Seems strange that they had that plan, then randomly started killing.

The only behavior that indicates someone is a killer is if they kill someone. If peoples' interests in "dark" topics indicated that they were criminals, all of the members of the band Cannibal Corpse would be serving multiple life sentences. Kam and Bryer are suspected to be killers because there is evidence to indicate that they killed people. Not because they played "those darned evil video games," not because they were "masters of camouflage" in the woods (lol), not because Bryer was a little too excited about the prospect of buying a Nazi knife, not because Kam's Steam username was named after a song about Josef Mengele, and not even because Bryer told his middle school classmate that he wanted to kill people. They are suspected to be killers based on forensic evidence. Now, I have said before that I wish there was more transparency about what that forensic evidence was, but the police have said that there is significant evidence, so we're in a bit of a holding pattern until/unless they ever release that.

All this other discussion is trying to determine the "why," and the events that led up to this. For the most part, we are just as confused as you are about how and why these guys did this, and there are a lot of things about this case that are baffling. If this was a clear-cut case there wouldn't be 13 threads and counting of posts on it, and multiple people who have become obsessed with it to probably an unhealthy degree. However that doesn't mean that they didn't actually commit the murders. It just means that this is a weird case and that clearly a lot of signs were missed when these two went into a dark spiral that led to them doing this.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Campbell River fishing is rather famous.

Yes, new hospital built there recently (and in Courtenay/Comox) so those areas will eventually get busier as people can still semi afford to live there. Nice scenery in Campbell River as well I've been told, I've never been that far up the island!

 

[srper2]

I don’t understand why you quoted my comment.

I don’t know why people are debating this, but there’s a reason why @derbywinner is less keen than some of you about calling Port Alberni a port. Before correcting him/her, it might be worth noting that he/she is speaking as someone who has worked for a major terminal operation in Vancouver.

Vancouver is a major commercial port operation. Port Alberni is legally a port, but commercially it is insignificant. If you look at your link, it mostly runs some marinas and three berths for the export of local lumber products.

Sorry, but I’m with @derbywinner. Vancouver is a port, Port Alberni is a white elephant and a drain on taxpayers, which is why it is desperately looking for business

Not that any of this matters, except in terms of Port Alberni employment opportunities.

I wish people would stop the ridiculous arguments that seemed to have festered on this thread from late last night, it seems that people are searching posts and making argumentative replies just for the sake of it. To be arguing about whether Port Alberni can be called a port is just not needed. There is no need for someone to make a rue reply and then continue to argue a pointless reason for it. I was relieved to see someone post that they were not biting, but was shocked that the argumentative attitude was continued anyway!

 

[derbywinner]

The missing piece, something that is more of a new phenomenon, is the young male dyad that kills together with very little reason.

A couple of weeks ago, 18 and 19 year teens killed a complete stranger in Italy and then ran away. There are many more examples this, but this looks to be the biggest crime of this type in Canada.

Italy - Finnegan Elder, 19 & Gabriel Hjorth, 18, US students arrested, police murder, 26 July 2019

I read about that. I thought they were caught and then people were disgusted about how they were treated.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes, that’s basically what my brother was saying. I didn’t specify it in my post, but his reference to demand being the highest since the 1970s was to the general Victoria area and a couple of other areas.

Definitely! Laid back living here is nice too My man is a carpenter, lots of work right now and they're getting paid their worth (finally)!

 

[derbywinner]

Yes, new hospital built there recently (and in Courtenay/Comox) so those areas will eventually get busier as people can still semi afford to live there. Nice scenery in Campbell River as well I've been told, I've never been that far up the island!

Out of Vancouver, everything is beautiful. I spent 6 days camping in Wells Gray and it was amazing. Vancouver has become poopy !

 

[NJSleuth91]

I do think I've slowly been making sense of this whole thing.

My theory:

The murder of Lucas and Chynna was unplanned. We shall leave the motive out for now, but they ended up murdering Lucas and Chynna and took off. A few days later they became absolutely convinced that there were going to be convicted of the crime. Perhaps they realized, as somebody theorized earlier today, that they had left their fingerprints. Maybe they thought too many cars drove by and saw them. Who knows, but they became absolutely convinced that their goose was cooked, so to speak. They vowed not to be taken alive. Of course they had to ditch the truck and camper, because it was easily spotted.

This is pretty much what I'm thinking too.

 

[Zella]

The only behavior that indicates someone is a killer is if they kill someone. If peoples' interests in "dark" topics indicated that they were criminals, all of the members of the band Cannibal Corpse would be serving multiple life sentences. Kam and Bryer are suspected to be killers because there is evidence to indicate that they killed people. Not because they played "those darned evil video games," not because they were "masters of camouflage" in the woods (lol), not because Bryer was a little too excited about the prospect of buying a Nazi knife, not because Kam's Steam username was named after a song about Josef Mengele, and not even because Bryer told his middle school classmate that he wanted to kill people. They are suspected to be killers based on forensic evidence. Now, I have said before that I wish there was more transparency about what that forensic evidence was, but the police have said that there is significant evidence, so we're in a bit of a holding pattern until/unless they ever release that.

All this other discussion is trying to determine the "why," and the events that led up to this. For the most part, we are just as confused as you are about how and why these guys did this, and there are a lot of things about this case that are baffling. If this was a clear-cut case there wouldn't be 13 threads and counting of posts on it, and multiple people who have become obsessed with it to probably an unhealthy degree. However that doesn't mean that they didn't actually commit the murders. It just means that this is a weird case and that clearly a lot of signs were missed when these two went into a dark spiral that led to them doing this.

Thank you! You stated this more eloquently than I did.

And I resemble the descriptor "obsessed with it to probably an unhealthy degree" way too much.

 

[Kubirai]

Someone posted a very specific spot for the RAV4 and said they stood in the burnt out spot. Maybe that post was removed. There did not seem to be power poles near the spot they said, though, so I'm still not sure exactly where it was found.

It would make a difference as to whether they could have wiped out taking a corner or not. Hopefully they will repost and perhaps elaborate. (They were recently verified.)

The map by Otto shows the RAV4 burn location identified by aphoto.

I posted wrong location earlier, but it was another creek crossing the 290. Boat was found in the bay of that creek.

 

[SnooperDuper]

More from the guy that got the two un-stuck in Alberta:

..........................................................................................................
Ste-Croix said he recognized the sleeping bag Manitoba RCMP found.

“That sleeping bag they found floating, I mentioned that to RCMP.

“They (Bryer and Kam) had it hanging on the fence while I was pulling them out.”
..........................................................................................................
Now, looking back, he said he understands why no one was coming to help the teens.

“Now I know why no one was showing up. They knew no one and had no phones.”
..........................................................................................................
He described their handshakes as “limp” before adding, “They weren’t big tough blokes.”
..........................................................................................................
Ste-Croix went to the RCMP station on Tuesday, July 23, at about 4:30 p.m. to report the encounter.

Ste-Croix said it was odd what the RCMP said to him about the teens.

“First thing the cop mentioned is ‘these boys don’t have criminal records.’ Very odd.”

They were 'really nice kids' says Alberta man who inadvertently helped 2 BC teen fugitives

 

[dameagatha]

I wish people would stop the ridiculous arguments that seemed to have festered on this thread from late last night, it seems that people are searching posts and making argumentative replies just for the sake of it. To be arguing about whether Port Alberni can be called a port is just not needed. There is no need for someone to make a rue reply and then continue to argue a pointless reason for it. I was relieved to see someone post that they were not biting, but was shocked that the argumentative attitude was continued anyway!

Again, why is my comment included? I’ve made no mention of Port Alberni.

 

[derbywinner]

This makes sense. The murders became big news on July 18, they murdered and stole the Rav4 the following day.

Otto I love your theory. But something in the back of my head; is saying something isn't right.

 

[otto]

Yes, new hospital built there recently (and in Courtenay/Comox) so those areas will eventually get busier as people can still semi afford to live there. Nice scenery in Campbell River as well I've been told, I've never been that far up the island!

I spent a summer there fly fishing, landscaping, relaxing. I was a student. Just South, don't remember how far, people my age had guns, drank a lot, had no ambition, and shot bottles and cans on posts for fun.

 

[otto]

I wish people would stop the ridiculous arguments that seemed to have festered on this thread from late last night, it seems that people are searching posts and making argumentative replies just for the sake of it. To be arguing about whether Port Alberni can be called a port is just not needed. There is no need for someone to make a rue reply and then continue to argue a pointless reason for it. I was relieved to see someone post that they were not biting, but was shocked that the argumentative attitude was continued anyway!

It seems to be a search to better understand the suspects, where they grew up and influences that may have shaped their decision to murder and go on the run.

 

[derbywinner]

I wish people would stop the ridiculous arguments that seemed to have festered on this thread from late last night, it seems that people are searching posts and making argumentative replies just for the sake of it. To be arguing about whether Port Alberni can be called a port is just not needed. There is no need for someone to make a rue reply and then continue to argue a pointless reason for it. I was relieved to see someone post that they were not biting, but was shocked that the argumentative attitude was continued anyway!

I'm sorry but I wasn't arguing. If someone says something, and someone says it's not true, how is that arguing. It's a discussion. Shouldn't be taken differently other than a discussion or a conversation. We are allowed to debate and I think not be mean or demeaning right ??

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Out of Vancouver, everything is beautiful. I spent 6 days camping in Wells Gray and it was amazing. Vancouver has become poopy !

Don't miss Vancouver and it's depressing, overcast rainy weather, island weather is much better JMO