Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

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  • #2,561
Thank you ! I'm not trying to be rude or obstinate, just I worked for the largest terminal in Canada. If your not here I want you to understand the demographics and so on without Google :)
I don't even know why this discussion even continues because it has absolutely zero relevance to the fact that 2 young men have committed 3 murders.
 
  • #2,562
I've seen that sort of thing in small towns on the mainland as well, so maybe just killing idle time if not much to do? That's why I got out of my small town growing up, it didn't jive with my interests.

There's definitely some rustic living in some areas on the island. First time I went to Port Renfrew many many years ago I got the heebie-jeebies. Saw no policemen and had no cell phone reception, spooked me a bit.

Sooke used to be a bit wild/on the fringe in a sense where you could have a fire and no one would bother you, but now yuppies/young families are taking over and things are getting stricter with bylaws, city-type restrictions that weren't in place before. It seems there's two types of folks there now - the people who moved there to get away from city people and live a more remote existence and the new flux of home buyers from the city.

I think they had 22s back then - to shoot bottles off the fence posts. I know nothing about guns. Could a 22 kill someone?
 
  • #2,563
I wasn't sure if he meant that Bryer was doing all the work with getting the car unstuck, since he was apparently standing 100 feet away. I think what he meant is, he thought Kam was the leader but Bryer did the work in the murders, ie. was the actual person who pulled the trigger because he had the "psycho look."

I was thinking maybe he had the gun in his waistband and was paranoid about it. Also I guess we called it about him being a nervous person.
Yeah I can't figure out what work he'd be doing that he would have seen except whatever he witnessed before he started helping and while he was driving away. I know in the radio interview, he said as soon as he warned them they needed to move out of the way (which I suppose didn't include Kam since he got in the Rav4 to reverse), he said Bryer got moving. I didn't realize he had moved so far back.

I maybe shouldn't tell this on myself, but I'm super fidgety and nervous, and some of BS's behavior in the surveillance video reminds me of me when I'm internally freaking out. Of course, I don't know him and what his baseline behavior is, but all the information we've found definitely suggests that he was not the calm one in that partnership.

Very good info too, thanks!! Maybe a gun/weapon in his waist/pants in case things went awry?
That's a good point you and @NJSleuth91 both made about the gun possibly being in the waistband.
 
  • #2,564
I think they had 22s back then - to shoot bottles off the fence posts. I know nothing about guns. Could a 22 kill someone?

No idea about guns, I want to say any gun could kill someone!
 
  • #2,565
They were 'really nice kids' says Alberta man who inadvertently helped 2 BC teen fugitives

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An Alberta man who inadvertently helped suspected teen killers Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky get the stolen SUV they were driving out of the mud was numb when he found out about their deaths.

[...]

“I had to stop working for an hour. (They were) really nice kids,” Tommy Ste-Croix said in an interview with Alberta Press today.

Ste-Croix said he recognized the sleeping bag Manitoba RCMP found.

“That sleeping bag they found floating, I mentioned that to RCMP.

“They (Bryer and Kam) had it hanging on the fence while I was pulling them out.”

Ste-Croix had a chance encounter in Cold Lake with the two teens on July 21 – just hours before BC RCMP listed the teens as missing and one day before BC RCMP said they were suspects in three northern BC murders.

When Ste-Croix saw the teens on July 21 he said they appeared more defeated than angry that their SUV was stuck in the mud.

“I’d have to say more discouraged, and nervous of who I was,” said Ste-Croix.

“But me backing up to them really changed the whole approach. Even the cop said if I’d of drove at them or gotten out of my truck to go talk to them instead of backing up to their bumper to pull, the interaction might have been totally different.

“Bryer seemed like at the end of his ropes,” said Ste-Croix.

[...]

“I feel they were bullied most of their lives,” he added. “Just snapped. Life isn’t fair but hurting others isn’t the answer.”

And, he has his own theory about their deaths.

“I think they committed suicide,” he said.

When Ste-Croix crossed paths with Schmegelsky and McLeod on July 21, they were stuck for more than an hour before he decided to help them, he said, adding that he never helps anyone get unstuck in that area.

“It’s a regular thing for people to get stuck and to be honest I’ve never gone and helped anyone. I’d just sit back and laugh. Usually we’d see more trucks pull up to help them but these guys are there for a good hour struggling and no one was showing up so figured I’d help.”

His brother and sister told him not to help the teens.

[...]

When Ste-Croix helped the two get the SUV unstuck he said he took charge of the situation and gave the suspected killers orders.

“I did look a bit in front to see if it was in reverse and did lean on the driver side door while explaining how not to push on the throttle too hard while in reverse.”

Ste-Croix didn’t notice any weapons inside the vehicle, but added, “I wasn’t looking for anything suspicious so kind of hard to notice when you’re not looking.”

The entire time he helped, Kam sat in the vehicle and Bryer stood near the woods about 100 feet away because Ste-Croix told him to stay back so he didn’t get harmed.

“I told him to back off because if it snaps someone could get hurt or killed.”

He said he wasn’t sure which teen seemed to be the leader.

“Not sure. I think Kam was but Bryer was the one doing all the work.

“Kam was the driver and he was older but Bryer has the psycho look.”

[...]

There were light-hearted exchanges between Ste-Croix and the teen fugitives.

“We were laughing,” he said. “I was making fun of them. I had them laughing.

“They were so stuck so of course, I had to make some smart-🤬🤬🤬 remarks. They just went along laughing, saying stupid remarks back at me.”

Ste-Croix said the teens gave him their real names after he finished helping them get unstuck.

“Giving me their real names was just a sense of power,” he said. “They looked at each other when they gave me their real names during the final handshake.”

The teens hesitated slightly before shaking his hand.

“I first shook Kam’s hand.”

He described their handshakes as “limp” before adding, “They weren’t big tough blokes.”

[...]

Ste-Croix said the teens had ample opportunity to steal his new pick-up truck and his wallet could be seen inside the vehicle.
 
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  • #2,566
I think they had 22s back then - to shoot bottles off the fence posts. I know nothing about guns. Could a 22 kill someone?
Yes, it's a smaller caliber, but Anthony Spilotro (mob hitman/enforcer out of Chicago in the 60s-80s) liked using them for murders with a suppressor/silencer because they were quiet and didn't make a huge mess. It was his trademark.
 
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  • #2,567
Woot Woot very well said !!!
However; people get to choose based on evidence if people are guilty/not guilty. Not the first time at the rodeo; RCMP and other LE have been very quiet about many cases. I'm not unhealthy following this post. I think the people on here are amazing, good people. We want to know. But imagine if Lucas and Chynna and Prof. Dyck knew how many people cared about their deaths. Isn't that the point. We care ! Not just us but a lot of people outside of this forum. So can we just post and have opinions and crazy theories ?
 
  • #2,568
I finally found the photos with the locations:
Body location says approximate, but is far off. RAV4 location is same as the recent map by Otto.
 
  • #2,569
I don't even know why this discussion even continues because it has absolutely zero relevance to the fact that 2 young men have committed 3 murders.

You could say that about quite a lot of what has been posted.

He was trying to correct a misimpression about the status of Port Alberni, and got a lot of kickback for his effort from people who don’t know nearly as much as he does, indeed who know nothing at all.

To the extent that employment opportunities for two young Port Alberni males are relevant, given that the whole start of this was about looking for work, it is indeed relevant. Serious port operations are important employers.

In fact, the reason that I asked my brother today about construction work in Port Alberni was the direct result of many people speculating about local construction job opportunities. If you’d like me to delete my brother’s comments about construction demand, now discussed by several people, let me know. I’ll be happy to oblige.

For myself, I think that people like the person who set us straight on the Port Alberni port operation, who can contribute hard facts, and not just theories, should be welcomed, not told that his contribution is irrelevant.
 
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  • #2,570
I do think I've slowly been making sense of this whole thing.

My theory:
The murder of Lucas and Chynna was unplanned. We shall leave the motive out for now, but they ended up murdering Lucas and Chynna and took off. A few days later they became absolutely convinced that there were going to be convicted of the crime. Perhaps they realized, as somebody theorized earlier today, that they had left their fingerprints. Maybe they thought too many cars drove by and saw them. Who knows, but they became absolutely convinced that their goose was cooked, so to speak. They vowed not to be taken alive. Of course they had to ditch the truck and camper, because it was easily spotted.

I like your theory. It's uncomplicated, sticks to the facts, and is credible.

Can you hop to the time between when they burned the RAV and then were found dead? Did they survive more than one night? What's with the evidence on the shore, the sleeping bag and the boat?

Do you have a theory for this phase too?
 
  • #2,571
Yes, it's a smaller caliber, but Anthony Spilotro (mob hitman/enforcer out of Chicago in the 60s-80s) liked using them for murders with a suppressor/silencer because they were quiet and didn't make a huge mess. It was his trademark.

Interesting. The road worked said he saw a "hole" somewhere near Lucas' stomach (going from memory). Young adults on Vancouver Island had 22s for recreation when I visited a long time ago, the guns are probably still popular with that age group. Maybe it wasn't that hard for the suspects to get their hands on a 22.
 
  • #2,572
Yeah I can't figure out what work he'd be doing that he would have seen except whatever he witnessed before he started helping and while he was driving away. I know in the radio interview, he said as soon as he warned them they needed to move out of the way (which I suppose didn't include Kam since he got in the Rav4 to reverse), he said Bryer got moving. I didn't realize he had moved so far back.

I maybe shouldn't tell this on myself, but I'm super fidgety and nervous, and some of BS's behavior in the surveillance video reminds me of me when I'm internally freaking out. Of course, I don't know him and what his baseline behavior is, but all the information we've found definitely suggests that he was not the calm one in that partnership.

Yeah as yet another fidgety and nervous person, I totally agree with you. Anxiety and murder do not mix. I wonder if Kam wasn't freaking out just as much though, but just like he was able to keep his dark side buried, he was able to keep his internal freakout buried too. Also if they were reacting that badly at that point, imagine how it was when they were in the wilderness and decided to commit suicide....

Bryer being such a nervous person makes me think about the robbery gone wrong scenario. Don't most robberies that end in murder happen because the robber panics?

And more than ever I have the overwhelming feeling of...none of this had to happen.
 
  • #2,573
Wells Grey Park is another place where unbelievably strange murders occurred.
RCMP drove the missing truck and camper across Canada for 12 months. The original one was found 20 km from the car the people were burned in. Considered one of the most costly Police investigations ever.
 
  • #2,574
I'm not understanding your post that the couple "were killed about camping in Pink Mountain."

What was wrong that it got them killed?

Their murder by the teens would make more sense to me if they were previously known to each other. If the teens met the couple at Pink Mountain earlier, and recognized their van on the side of the road, and stopped. If that was the case, the couple's guard would be down when they recognized the teens at the van.

When did Fowler and Deese camp at Pink Mountain?
 
  • #2,575
They were 'really nice kids' says Alberta man who inadvertently helped 2 BC teen fugitives

St-croix-tn.jpg


An Alberta man who inadvertently helped suspected teen killers Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky get the stolen SUV they were driving out of the mud was numb when he found out about their deaths.

I wondered about how he survived, until one of our members posted the location upthread. I now believe that the reason he wasn't shot is probably because of the location; too many people in the area. Had it been a remote location, I suspect he might not have been so fortunate, assuming they still had a weapon.
 
  • #2,576
The Nelson river is a long river. I'm sure it has dangerous sections, with serious rapids. But going by what we see in the photos of the area of the search, it's not the heavily flowing, rapids filled river at that point. It's much wider, and I'm assuming deeper. We even saw footage of a someone in diving gear wading through the water as they looked for evidence. A river with a dangerous pull would not allow for that. I think we're trying too hard to find an explanation as to where they would have gotten the boat, who ripped out the middle seat, and what caused it to buckle in the middle. I think it really just adds to the mystery of what happened to them, especially when the police are not committed to any scenario that brought them to their final resting spot.
This video shows the river. While it looks like it has a strong current, I don't see anything resembling rapids that could seriously damage a boat.

You are looking at the boat launch dock with a break water going out a bit into the river. The dock would be at a calm, accessible spot for launching boats.
 
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  • #2,577
They were 'really nice kids' says Alberta man who inadvertently helped 2 BC teen fugitives

“I first shook Kam’s hand.”

He described their handshakes as “limp” before adding, “They weren’t big tough blokes.”

[...]

Ste-Croix said the teens had ample opportunity to steal his new pick-up truck and his wallet could be seen inside the vehicle.

Respectfully snipped! That is a great article, I'm going out on a limb here but something Ste-Croix said jumped out at me (BBM): "Ste-Croix said the teens had ample opportunity to steal his new pick-up truck and his wallet could be seen inside the vehicle... My sense of humour. Making them laugh and showing someone cares.

Is it possible the guys might've had car issues or needed directions and stopped in travels on roadside or gas station to ask LF & CD for help and somehow felt dissed by the couple where an inferiority complex might kick in?

Two good-looking outgoing people, well versed in travelling then creepy BS comes along and creeps them out, so they might've been short (coming off as rude maybe eve) if feeling uncomfortable maybe even telling the teens to buzz off, get lost or something.

I have a family member who worked at a maximum pen with the worst of the worst criminals and he said so many murders happen from a random interaction with the wrong person who feels put down - they'll stew and stew about it, then go back a kill a person over it. Quite common in violent crimes especially with alcohol involved. You see it in road rage incidents as well. You piss of the wrong person and if they have a weapon that can be a recipe for murder.
 
  • #2,578
I don't even know why this discussion even continues because it has absolutely zero relevance to the fact that 2 young men have committed 3 murders.
You don't know they committed 3 murders. What you hear is just that; hearsay.
 
  • #2,579
No idea about guns, I want to say any gun could kill someone!
Certainly, if aimed right. Lucas' wound description by Trevor Pierre could be from a .22 low energy bullet or high energy deer hunting pellet.
 
  • #2,580
Does that mean that they never used the boat?
I read that several people reported the beat up boat as their own that they abandoned after wrecking it. I doubt it would even have oars. I haven’t heard of anyone reporting an intact boat missing.
 
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