Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Schmoosh]

I'm suddenly curious where they camped between Fort Nelson and Liard Hot Springs on the night of July 13. It was not Pink Mountain, and it must between North of Fort Nelson.

We need to look for campgrounds in the area.

Muncho Lake?

 

[NJSleuth91]

I don't think robbery either and now I don't think random thrill kill anymore either. I feel like KMBS got pissed off about something (more probably BS) and BS wanted to intimidate the couple and things went south and escalated somehow.

I think words were said the set off BS maybe and KM of course would be by his buddy's side. I said many threads ago, if CD was shot in the face (guessing) that's pretty personal and symbolic especially being a pretty girl.

I guess I'm thinking KMBS had an "us again them/us against the world" attitude and dynamic. Maybe BS got KM riled up enough if they had a past of being bullied.

KM sounds like he came from a good home, so maybe too mundane and wanted adventure and that's why the teens clicked? I've went along with many "bad influence" friends in my youth because I wanted the excitement and my life to not be cookie cutter. I didn't do crime but other stupid, dangerous stuff!

I agree about their "us against the world" dynamic. I mean, that's really where that whole militia thing Bryer talked about came from, I think, the feeling of being persecuted against, hiding from and fighting off the rest of the threatening world in the wilderness with your few trusted friends.

That Ste-Croix guy said he thinks they snapped after being bullied/rejected one too many times. Of course he's just one witness, but I think he might be onto something. From the footage and witness accounts, and their nonsensical decisions, I'm not seeing two cold-blooded thrill killers. I'm seeing two scared teenagers who know they seriously messed up and are in way over their heads.

I don't think they intended for their escape to be a suicide mission but I think suicide was a discussed possibility the whole time. They probably had discussed suicide many times even before all this ever happened, being disturbed teenagers and all. However I think in their escape, they were hoping that somehow, in some wild stroke of luck, they could get out of it, and not fully accepting the reality that their remaining choices were prison and death. I mean, I could be wrong, of course.

I think it would have to be both of them that got pissed off about whatever it was. Otherwise the one that didn't do the shooting would probably not want to throw their life away for no reason. Or who knows, maybe they would. Maybe they were really that close that they wouldn't want to live without each other. The fact that they stuck together, didn't betray each other, and died together seems to point to that.

 

[scrappinkat]

Those are pullouts. Again, I know I'm alone here, but just read a little about camping in pullouts in Canada. Most have signs stating no camping, and those that don't, let's just say seasoned travellers recommend a campground for safety.

When I was looking for info I came across an RV traveller site and it had some pretty awful reviews for Pink Mountain Campsite. One recent user mentioned they would have felt much safer camping in a pullout on the side of the road.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Off topic - has anyone noticed this thread is at 136 pages? Where's the new thread? lol

 

[Optics]

Those are pullouts. Again, I know I'm alone here, but just read a little about camping in pullouts in Canada. Most have signs stating no camping, and those that don't, let's just say seasoned travellers recommend a campground for safety.

In my experience having lived up in the Yukon in southern BC or more larger urban centers yes, but in the North, many people will pull over and camp off the side of the road , (Unless you are touring around in a Winnebago or Airstream

 

[SnooperDuper]

Off topic - has anyone noticed this thread is at 136 pages? Where's the new thread? lol

Once they get rid of all the "is Port Alberni a port?" stuff, it'll only be 70 pages like usual.

 

[Schmoosh]

Once they get rid of all the "is Port Alberni a port?" stuff, it'll only be 70 pages like usual.

Until someone asks "is Dease Lake really a lake?" LOL

 

[Moonlitnight]

OK I'm outta here. It has been lovely meeting you all.

 

[otto]

They were in Fort Nelson at the gas station from 7:30pm until 7:47pm on July 13th. So did they turn around and drive two and half hours back towards Hudson’s Hope to camp at Pink Mountain Campsite that night of the 13th.

They left the ranch in Hudson Hope on the 12th although I’ve also seen it said to have been the 13th.

IMO Fowler and Deese camping in/at Pink Mountain campsite seems more than a little implausible.

They left on July 13. The suspects left on July 12. I'm not going to look for the link right now, but it's out there, and linked here in earlier discussions.

 

[otto]

Off topic - has anyone noticed this thread is at 136 pages? Where's the new thread? lol

Shhh ... as long as no one complains, we can continue to try to figure this out.

 

[JuneBug67]

I thought it was really interesting in that recent article quoting the Cold Lake guy that he said that Kam/Bryer using their real names with him was a “power move”. That’s the exact language we used here earlier talking about Kam using the word “joyride” during the same interaction. If it doesn’t exactly reveal motive, it does perhaps go some way to state of mind.

 

[Kubirai]

Yes, if they planned to kill just for the sake of it (what I thought at beginning). Now I'm thinking something set them off. No idea if crime happened at night in the dark or early morning hours at dawn when some light out.

We have to consider they are capable of killing sleeping occupants of a roadside vehicle in cold blood, for their own pleasure.

Meadow Lake video shows no outward signs that they maliciously murdered a driver and drove his vehicle for almost 48 hours.

 

[Schmoosh]

I thought it was really interesting in that recent article quoting the Cold Lake guy that he said that Kam/Bryer using their real names with him was a “power move”. That’s the exact language we used here earlier talking about Kam using the word “joyride” during the same interaction. If it doesn’t exactly reveal motive, it does perhaps go some way to state of mind.

dbm

 

[otto]

In my experience having lived up in the Yukon in southern BC or more larger urban centers yes, but in the North, many people will pull over and camp off the side of the road , (Unless you are touring around in a Winnebago or Airstream

I'm sure they do. Many have no camping signs, but some don't. As long as people are not alone, it's safer. Being alone is not a good idea.

The only known suspect in the Highway of Tears was a transient worker from the states. Deserted Canadian highway pullouts can be hunting grounds for some tourists.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I agree about their "us against the world" dynamic. I mean, that's really where that whole militia thing Bryer talked about came from, I think, the feeling of being persecuted against, hiding from and fighting off the rest of the threatening world in the wilderness with your few trusted friends.

That Ste-Croix guy said he thinks they snapped after being bullied/rejected one too many times. Of course he's just one witness, but I think he might be onto something. From the footage and witness accounts, and their nonsensical decisions, I'm not seeing two cold-blooded thrill killers. I'm seeing two scared teenagers who know they seriously messed up and are in way over their heads.

I don't think they intended for their escape to be a suicide mission but I think suicide was a discussed possibility the whole time. They probably had discussed suicide many times even before all this ever happened, being disturbed teenagers and all. However I think in their escape, they were hoping that somehow, in some wild stroke of luck, they could get out of it, and not fully accepting the reality that their remaining choices were prison and death. I mean, I could be wrong, of course.

I think it would have to be both of them that got pissed off about whatever it was. Otherwise the one that didn't do the shooting would probably not want to throw their life away for no reason. Or who knows, maybe they would. Maybe they were really that close that they wouldn't want to live without each other. The fact that they stuck together, didn't betray each other, and died together seems to point to that.

I'm generalizing here but in a way KMBS fall into that same demographic that many shooters seem to have - young, male, anti-social, no girlfriends/love life, isolated, not much going on for future plans, hanging in basements, attracted to violence, mad at the world, resenting people who might have successful lives, too much screen time (being isolated this might reinforce detachment from reality/human interaction in a way), etc. This is all JMO

 

[MassGuy]

I'm generalizing here but in a way KMBS fall into that same demographic that many shooters seem to have - young, male, anti-social, no girlfriends/love life, isolated, not much going on for future plans, hanging in basements, attracted to violence, mad at the world, resenting people who might have successful lives, too much screen time (being isolated this might reinforce detachment from reality/human interaction in a way), etc. This is all JMO

Yeah, I see the similarities as well.

Their crime is different, but they do seem to have similar backgrounds to many of these mass shooters.

 

[Kubirai]

Look here there are countless areas too many to list this will give you an idea Alaska Highway - mile by mile description from Fort Nelson

Chynna hug suggested she wanted to call it a night, so my best guess is this site, reachable before dark. Two earlier potential sites have better view, but no water.

Tetsa River Regional Park, 2 km side road. 25 sites, water, toilets and firewood. Fishing for grayling & Dolly Varden, in the Tetsa River. Fee area.

 

[Zella]

I know the witness got a "bullied" impression from them, but I don't know that that gels with what has been presented about their life in Port Alberni.

If anything, Bryer seems like he had a tendency to bully people himself, and even when he creeped people out, their reactions seems to have been to ignore him/avoid him rather than bully him.

Kam was described as not having lots of friends, but it seems like he was well-liked in general by his friends and acquaintances and not regarded as an outcast weirdo by the community at large.

I'm wondering if being on the run was what was bullying them, if that makes sense--stressing them out and making them give off that vibe more than they ordinarily would.

Edited to add: I think they both (and especially BS) had a tendency to present differently to an adult, which they certainly would have considered the witness, rather than a peer. Even though Bryer was frequently awful to his peers and had a tense relationship with some of his relatives, most of his interactions with adults were apparently polite.

 

[Optics]

I thought it was really interesting in that recent article quoting the Cold Lake guy that he said that Kam/Bryer using their real names with him was a “power move”. That’s the exact language we used here earlier talking about Kam using the word “joyride” during the same interaction. If it doesn’t exactly reveal motive, it does perhaps go some way to state of mind.

I'm simply amazed at how Mr. Ste. Croix has suddenly progressed from a guy pulling a vehicle out of a mud ditch to such an expert criminal psychologist on Kam/Bryer - considering he had no clue who they were until his wife showed him the missing alert on her facebook. (yes, I'm being sarcastic)

 

[otto]

Yeah, I see the similarities as well.

Their crime is different, but they do seem to have similar backgrounds to many of these mass shooters.

The first I heard of men aged 18 or 19 having no ambition but wanting to belong to something was in connection with Daesh. Maybe it's the new generation? Young men with nothing but opportunity and they couldn't care less, so they look for the excitement of guns and adventure?