Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[scrappinkat]

You mean from a grammatical standpoint? It is actually the exact opposite in the UK and US. The joys of English!

In the terms of the linked article? It was ‘kudos’ with single marks?

 

[MistyWaters]

I’m starting to think the reason they killed the couple was because there was two of them. I believe they both killed one of them at the same time. They wanted to kill and they wanted to do it together. So why not pick a couple? There truck must have been spotted and therefore placed on fire. Now they killed professor Dicks for his vehicle and burn it when done with it. Once in bush they realized big mistake bugs , hypothermia killed them. That’s my theory. Even though we may never know the true story, I felt like posting my theory. IMO

I’m imaging two young men who’d never been on their own before. Food is on the table, they’ve a roof over their head and regardless of the ages, their needs were provided for much like children, regardless of their Walmart job.

Suddenly they have a truck and camper and their first taste of true freedom setting out into the world with nobody looking over their shoulder to question their whereabouts or actions.

It’s not out of the realm that young people at this point often make really bad decisions and often that comes from the first heady days of freedom especially if this also involves the overindulgence in illegal drugs or alcohol, common as well.

If theft was something they’d revelled at accomplishing in the past, driving past what appeared to be an abandoned van on the side of the highway in the middle of the night might’ve posed too great a temptation to resist. Both alcohol and illegal drugs are known to fuel aggression and anger especially if the tendency is already present, even worse if unexpected circumstances end with young men proving how tough they are, not only to themselves but to each other. I wouldn’t be surprised if one led the aggression against L&C, the other against LD simply as a bonding bad boy experience.

Other than certain comments about K&B being “good boys”, what examples do we know that demonstrates they were hardworking, honest, upstanding young men with a strong moral code? None that I’ve noticed. Even that they’d lie about being in Whitehorse job hunting when they were nowhere near there suggests to me they were conniving, untrustworthy, and took advantage of people who trusted them. JMO

 

[nope]

While AS did say "Kudos" when he first saw the teens on their final surveillance video, my impression was he was overjoyed that they were still alive, and not joy at evading RCMP.

I agree.

That was my impression, too. Even the reporter, who didn't always seem terribly sympathetic to him,

She seemed like she was inwardly judging him. She had what appeared to me, a smirk the whole time.

AS is a mess. I feel really sorry for him. Those young men have ruined so many lives.

 

[SiciC]

I think prison was never an option for them. They were probably terrified of prison for obvious reasons (don't do the crime if you can't do the time....) and as I said, I suspect they were both intermittently suicidal for years leading up to this, which makes it easier to actually go through with suicide. I think they didn't really want to die and that's why they were making this panicked escape, thinking that there was a tiny chance that maybe they could get away somehow, and not accepting that they couldn't. But once they realized there was no chance of them getting away, and the options were prison or death, I think they had already made up their minds days earlier that it would be death.

I think it's right that they just didn't want to give themselves up when they realized it was either prison or death. Or maybe they really were trying to survive out there but the elements got them, I sorta find that unlikely just cause I think it would be quite a coincidence for them to be found dead in the same place at the same time unless it was suicide or suicide-murder(I also highly doubt the latter)..Of course that's only my opinion. Prison in Canada is a lot better than it is in some other countries and would seem preferable to death in the woods... Three meals a day, shelter, clothing. But two teenage guys might see prison for murder as a death sentence anyways.. No more freedom for the foreseeable future, potential beatings/killing unless they were in protective custody(which would be even more miserable), and they'd almost certainly never see eachother again and never be able to do the things they're interested in again (airsoft and such). So yes I think it's quite possible they decided on death over prison or giving themselves up.

 

[scrappinkat]

Other than certain comments about K&B being “good” boys, what examples do we know that demonstrates they were hardworking, honest, upstanding young men with a strong moral code? None that I’ve noticed.

There was the article about how good Bryer was to his grandmother and they always saw him helping her and taking care of her.

 

[Zella]

In the terms of the linked article? It was ‘kudos’ with single marks?

Yes, the Daily Mail is British, so they are following British usage there. Incidentally, I glanced at that article, and it is riddled with errors, of both the factual and grammatical variety! I noticed they claimed the teens' bodies were found on August 31!

 

[sandbar]

In the terms of the linked article? It was ‘kudos’ with single marks?

Based on what I know, kudos is in single quotes because the origin of the word is not English. Other style guides would have the word italicized. And that word is within double quotes, because it's dialogue.

 

[Zella]

BS and KM were young. If something (perhaps some small thing) had knocked them in a different direction, it's possible they would have peeled off from the herd and done what every other one of these kids would do: leave that crap behind. OTOH, people like K and B, if only slightly more "ept" might have developed into the next stage of criminality.

SBM

That's a really good point! It really could have escalated more than it did (not that 3 murders is minor), but it also didn't have to be end in any deaths at all. As I've said on here before, nothing was stopping these two life-long pals from doing what they claimed they were going to do--go somewhere together and look for work. They could have escaped Port Alberni, if that's what they really wanted, and still had their best friend with them for adventures and support as they ventured out on their own.

 

[Kiantra]

Right, but should LE have held the announcement until AS was reached?

I agree. When RCMP thought the teens were missing and considering there were three deaths in the area, the RCMP’s first priority would be safety of the teens. They may indeed tried to contact the Dad. Maybe family members didn’t have his number or his number had changed. Numerous explanations for this.

 

[Zella]

I agree. When RCMP thought the teens were missing and considering there were three deaths in the area, the RCMP’s first priority would be safety of the teens. They may indeed tried to contact the Dad. Maybe family members didn’t have his number or his number had changed. Numerous explanations for this.

I suspect Bryer's other family in Port Alberni may not have had his contact information. I think Bryer was staying with his mom's mom, and I imagine as acrimonious as that divorce was, any communication between his grandmother/mom (if Bryer still was talking to her)/other relatives to his dad was done with Bryer as the communication medium. But that's just MOO.

 

[Gardenista]

Did not like the haughty attitude of the 60 Minutes reporter. IMO, her performance was shameful.

 

[aphoto]

Yes, the Daily Mail is British, so they are following British usage there. Incidentally, I glanced at that article, and it is riddled with errors, of both the factual and grammatical variety! I noticed they claimed the teens' bodies were found on August 31!

The Daily Fail was the first outlet to leave the story. They pulled out right after the york landing “sighting” and since then have reported the story remotely, most likely from their New York bureau. At this point most of their reporting is either speculation or just stolen old news. They shouldn’t really be considered a source on this story anymore IMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

From what's been said here about Canadian gun laws, they are in serious trouble if it turns out Kam took the gun from their home.

Careless storage of a firearm = 6 months jail or $5,000 fine maximum

 

[MistyWaters]

There was the article about how good Bryer was to his grandmother and they always saw him helping her and taking care of her.

If there was I missed it. I don’t think she’d be old enough to require care.

 

[SnooperDuper]

<modsnip > the charge document for Mr. Dyck’s death is a public document, but it probably won’t tell you anything significant.

There may have been search warrants in this case, in which case the affidavits in support are in a court file and will become public, if they aren’t already.

In Canada, prosecutors do not file evidence with the court when an accused makes his initial court appearance. They provide defence counsel with “particulars” (basically, the alleged facts and evidence backing them up) of the offense. This is an on-going obligation up to and during trial if new evidence comes to light. Particulars are for the accused and his counsel; they are not public documents.

I think the more familiar term is "disclosure"? That's the evidence, but not LE's theory of how it is linked, and it is an ongoing obligation before and during the trial.

 

[Optics]

Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but my friend was at that shooting, and although not seriously injured, became a drug addict to handle the pain of seeing his friends die, and off the pain pills they gave him for his injuries. I was just reminded of how far reaching these events are, as he committed suicide earlier this year after being sober for 7 years. I really feel for all families involved. The fallout from these things doesn't seem to end...I think BS's dad is doing the best he can. It's almost impossible to understand, and thank you for posting this link. I'm not sure if my friend ever saw this.

I am so sorry. Was there something on your friend in the news? I seem to recall a really sad read about a man taking his life because of what you said above. It was heartbreaking.

 

[JuneBug67]

Bahahaha

I was actually wondering whether Canadians followed British usage or American usage with quotation marks. I assumed UK but am not sure.

As answered above, we are sympatico on the quote rules, but we really are typically a confused mish mash on spelling and measurements.

How much do you weigh Canadian person?
I weigh xxx pounds.

How much bologna would you like?
Oh just 250 grams please, because I already weigh xxx pounds.

Maybe it’s not the bologna. How much flour and milk is there in your super size banana bread recipe?
Well it’s too hot to bake today because it’s 30 degrees outside, but there’s 12 cups of flour and a litre of milk.

How tall is your boyfriend in Toronto?
He’s 5’10. He wears size 12 shoes. They’re 29 cm long.

Cool. How far is Toronto?
4 hours.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I agree that the Nazi knife Ritalin thing is sketchy, but it's by far not the sketchiest thing I've encountered in my life. I've worked in jails, juvenile jails, juvenile court-mandated work programs and mental hospitals for the criminally insane since 1979, and in colleges and universities since 1981. I've worked in inside investigations for LE agencies. I've also lived in some cultures that some might regard as a bit odd.

If I did a Venn diagram of overlapping student/criminal populations, it would be quite a bit of strangeness.

In 6th grade, kids started spouting white supremacist stuff at my daughters. By high school, it was really ugly (much bigger high school, times had changed) but it was a very small group doing it.

About six months ago, my niece was followed by a group of young men (late teens, early twenties) shouting racist hate at her. My students say they hear racist epithets on the daily (all races, but mostly black and brown kids). I've gone out and done a little recording - because, where I grew up, absolutely no one would have said these things in public or shouted them.

Yeah that was a bit of an exaggeration...I've heard of much sketchier things. But what I meant is like, if back when I was a teenager I went to hang out with my friends and walked in on THAT, I would be like: Abe simpson

I also doubt that was an isolated incident. And I can see why Kam wouldn't drop Bryer as a friend over that kind of thing, because of how bonded they were after all those years. But even in that case if you have a lifelong friend, you love and care about them, etc. and you see them acting completely bizarre and sketchy, in most cases you would be like "dude wtf, are you okay?" The fact that Kam didn't, and didn't seem uncomfortable at all, indicates that he saw nothing wrong or disturbing about that behavior, even if he himself didn't engage in it.

BS and KM were young. If something (perhaps some small thing) had knocked them in a different direction, it's possible they would have peeled off from the herd and done what every other one of these kids would do: leave that crap behind. OTOH, people like K and B, if only slightly more "ept" might have developed into the next stage of criminality.

Yeah that's what I've been saying the whole time. I don't get the sense that either of them were total remorseless, beyond redemption Ted Bundy sociopaths or anything. I mean, I could be wrong, and the evidence that comes out in the future will give more perspective on the matter, but that's just the sense I get. If I did think they were like that, I would probably have no interest in this case, since what is there to say about that.

I think they were lost, depressed and anxious, hated themselves and others, felt like outcasts, and were angry at the world. They made some awful, stupid, likely impulsive, possibly even drug-fueled (?) decisions and were too cowardly to face the consequences (well, kind of, I think committing suicide in the remote wilderness is pretty bad as far as consequences). They did clearly both have significant emotional disturbances but I think they could have been saved (maybe not made 100% mentally healthy, but at least not harming others or themselves) had someone noticed the signs that were years in the making of them going into a dark spiral.

 

[sandbar]

Did not like the haughty attitude of the 60 Minutes reporter. IMO, her performance was shameful.

I decided not to watch it. I think it's a slimy thing for 60 Minutes Australia to have done. I HOPE he got high 5 figures (as someone in an earlier thread thought he might) and that he uses the money wisely.

 

[10ofRods]

Thank you.

I agree. It doesn't make sense to me that CoD is private (I can see LE withholding horric details, but IMO they should have to say why) especially if a suspicious death happened on public property.

I wish someone on here was LE and could answer this definitively.

You'd need someone who was RCMP. No one is going to come on here and say they are RCMP...and be verified. MOO.

I'll also say one thing regarding gaming. There are possibilities, and I have known people that have this issue, that start to take whatever game they are into and associate their value with it. I managed a guild in an empire type of game. I used a line app to communicate with my guild members. I left the game for a while because I stupidly posted a photo to that app revealing info that another used to track me down (including my home address) and I received threatening mail. I'm a 40 year old female who was basically stalked by another gamer. The worlds can get very confused for some people.

It's a power issue. I still play the game, but am more careful. I think the major reason no further info has come out regarding this, is that most are smarter than me(I was naive early on) and stay anon. Only way to find that out is through gamer names. I'd bet they used a Line app or Discord to communicate with others. You also tend to put on a harder persona in games, when in reality you're just a keyboard warrior. I'm not sure BS was necessarily that hard, not sure about Kam, I'd be curious to see their in game interactions with others....I know that's very unlikely though. These games aren't all giggles so to speak, some people really do take it next level with threats of violence and start to think they are their character in the game. Worlds blur, throw in a combo of outside factors and I see how this might happen...

Thank you so much for this needed insight. It's interesting that in the same period of time (where K and B went missing), the internet moved into prominence as a crime-organizer and 8chan is...no more, as it once was. I am able to watch, in a peripheral way, how 8chan members are reorganizing - you know what I mean. Line and Discord are definitely part of this.

Again, thank you for adding much-needed and important observations.