Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[Link Haze]

I think it's ridiculous to blame AS for the criminal actions of his son. There is nothing to suggest he had anything whatsoever to do with the crimes.

That's how I feel. It's just wrong to do very public shaming like that.

 

[Jealoushe]

In Ontario there is an "Innocent Victims of Crime" fund. I have no idea how it works exactly, but maybe BC has a similar fund. I don't know if the fund is available to out of country families.

In Ontario the maximum you can apply for $25,000. You have to apply, and complete a lot of paperwork, then a board reviews your case, and either approves or denies the request. Then they have a decision on the payment amount, once that is complete they mail you a cheque. Process is about 6 months if you are actively completing the paperwork.

 

[Errrr]

DBM

 

[MistyWaters]

All right, fellow sleuths, answer me this, do you think any "wrongful death"-type lawsuits are going to arise out of this? Five dead, five grieving families from three different countries suddenly faced with the worst news anyone could possibly imagine...I am not even sure a lawsuit is possible, what with no definite answers--yet--as to what exactly transpired.

Any experts in international law here?

I’m not an expert in international law but the deceased perps unlikely had any personal wealth. If their estate had no present or future value, a civil suit for wrongful death would have no basis to proceed as any compensation would never be paid, even if awarded. So no, I don’t think a wrongful death suit will arise but that’s JMO.

 

[Optics]

What do you guys think of this? I think she has come down a bit hard on AS. At least AS did apologize publicly. Does she also blame the parents of Kam?
Homicide victim's sister accuses fugitive's dad of failing to take responsibility

I'm mixed about her statement which I did read last night. I think she has a few misunderstandings in her comments. However, I noticed she was really angry at the Charlotte Post reporters from their home town, going to the funeral of Chynna and lurking outside for some information. Keeping that in mind, I'm surprised she didn't go after CBS 60 Minutes Australia and the USA based CBS 60Minutes for doing the interviews to begin with. This interview of Mr. Schmegelsky was not done by any Canadian media.

 

[Optics]

DBM double post

 

[otto]

Wouldn't that be a provincial/BC matter? Wrongful death lawsuits fall under civil law, I believe, and thus would fall under BC's laws regarding such action.

Here in Alberta, we have a Fatal Accidents Act that allows for wrongful death lawsuits. I'll go see if the lawyer in the office next door is in...

Maybe ask if the foreign victims' families are also entitled to the victim's compensation that covers funeral expenses - although I suspect that BC victim's services has already presented that information to the victims' families.

 

[NJSleuth91]

‘Serious inquiries only:’ Boat believed to have been used by B.C. fugitives posted on Kijiji

The RCMP says the photo in the ad was taken from their Twitter account.

“We are aware of the ad and can confirm that we still have this boat in our possession,” Sgt. Paul Manaigre said.

Idiots.

All right, fellow sleuths, answer me this, do you think any "wrongful death"-type lawsuits are going to arise out of this? Five dead, five grieving families from three different countries suddenly faced with the worst news anyone could possibly imagine...I am not even sure a lawsuit is possible, what with no definite answers--yet--as to what exactly transpired.

Any experts in international law here?

After Diane Schuler killed eight people in a drunk-driving incident including herself, her husband sued the state of New York for "failing to keep the highway safe," and her brother whose three kids were all killed for "being the owner of the car." So I'm going to guess there probably will be lawsuits of some kind. These guys' estates collectively consisted of one suit and two half-eaten pork chops, so there's no point going after that. But I could see lawsuits against their parents and schools for missing the signs, or something. Now, whether those lawsuits will actually lead to something, is another matter.

EDIT: Especially if the gun came from Kam's parents and they failed to keep it properly secured. Let's just say their dream lake house is in serious danger if that's the case...JMO.

 

[JuneBug67]

I think it's ridiculous to blame AS for the criminal actions of his son. There is nothing to suggest he had anything whatsoever to do with the crimes.

For me, Chynna’s sister gets a no-strings-attached hall pass to have and express whatever emotions she has. It WOULD be galling in her position to see her sister’s killer’s family given a platform in this particular way, with Alan’s particular execution. I totally get it. Chynna’s family owes AS nothing, and he has created an emotional burden for them just by agreeing to the 60 Minutes feature.

That said, if I read the sentiments in her post in just about any other context, I wouldn’t find them compelling. And I sure wouldn’t see them as insightful, curious or empathetic.

 

[otto]

Idiots.

After Diane Schuler killed eight people in a drunk-driving incident including herself, her husband sued the state of New York for "failing to keep the highway safe," and her brother whose three kids were all killed for "being the owner of the car." So I'm going to guess there probably will be lawsuits of some kind. These guys' estates collectively consisted of one suit and two half-eaten pork chops, so there's no point going after that. But I could see lawsuits against their parents and schools for missing the signs, or something. Now, whether those lawsuits will actually lead to something, is another matter.

We can't forget the Australian tourists who put a tent in bear country and then tried to sue the Canadian government for failing to protect them from the bears. That was a very expensive fail for the tenters.

 

[sandbar]

In Ontario the maximum you can apply for $25,000. You have to apply, and complete a lot of paperwork, then a board reviews your case, and either approves or denies the request. Then they have a decision on the payment amount, once that is complete they mail you a cheque. Process is about 6 months if you are actively completing the paperwork.

Thanks for that info. $25,000 is probably more than the families would get from K&B's "estate" if the families sued...

 

[Jealoushe]

Thanks for that info. $25,000 is probably more than the families would get from K&B's "estate" if the families sued...

It's a really good program, efficient and helps those who can use it.

 

[KR72]

That's how I feel. It's just wrong to do such a public shaming.

Her anger is misdirected but understandable and I think she's trying to make sense of something horrible. The suspects are dead, there will be no justice for her sister (and the others) in a court of law. There is no opportunity to hold the suspects accountable for their actions, and she's angry.

AS isn't helping matters with his public statements and I get the feeling that some of her anger is directed at his book and how, when, and why he went about sending copies of his book to various media outlets. She even mentioned how her family has faced hardships but don't blame "broken systems" and that her sister rose above her circumstances and wanted to help people who were troubled.

Imagine her position throughout this entire thing. Her sister was just brutally murdered, and here comes AS saying his son is a "good boy," "a child," "a little boy," "not a Nazi, but was fascinated by Nazis," yet had Nazi material etc... (I'm NOT saying I think BS was a neo-Nazi)...there were all these red flags, and though I agree AS isn't to blame, I can see where CD's sister's rage comes from.

 

[sandbar]

After Diane Schuler killed eight people in a drunk-driving incident including herself, her husband sued the state of New York for "failing to keep the highway safe," and her brother whose three kids were all killed for "being the owner of the car." So I'm going to guess there probably will be lawsuits of some kind. These guys' estates collectively consisted of one suit and two half-eaten pork chops, so there's no point going after that. But I could see lawsuits against their parents and schools for missing the signs, or something. Now, whether those lawsuits will actually lead to something, is another matter.

EDIT: Especially if the gun came from Kam's parents and they failed to keep it properly secured. Let's just say their dream lake house is in serious danger if that's the case...JMO.

IMO typically the Canadian justice system is not as litigious as the US system. But I think that is shifting...FOR SURE if a firearm was used in the crimes and it was stolen or given to K&B the giver, or person who failed to lock up their firearm could be held responsible, first by law enforcement in terms of charges being laid, then in the courts. That is just my understanding.

 

[FactFinder3000]

For me, Chynna’s sister gets a no-strings-attached hall pass to have and express whatever emotions she has. It WOULD be galling in her position to see her sister’s killer’s family given a platform in this particular way, with Alan’s particular execution. I totally get it. Chynna’s family owes AS nothing, and he has created an emotional burden for them just by agreeing to the 60 Minutes feature.

That said, if I read the sentiments in her post in just about any other context, I wouldn’t find them compelling. And I sure wouldn’t see them as insightful, curious or empathetic.

So she gets a hall pass and he doesn't. Didn't they both lose a loved one?

In both cases I really wish somebody would explain to these folks that they should not be saying these things.

 

[CinNC]

It is difficult to believe they both chose, at exactly the same moment to end their lives, and then managed to achieve that ambition. Yes, Thelma and Louise did, with the aid of a soft top Chevy, but Kam and Bry?..

It is easier to believe that the one who did the killing, did so right up to the end, but then, they had to have kept some ammo and an operative weapon, dry and oiled.

It's the logistics. I just cant see them both carrying weaponry and dry ammo all this time, waiting for the last moment, where they shoot themselves together with their own carefully looked after guns.. . Hard to believe..

And drowning themselves, they have no control over where they are found, much less found together. .

Who called it as the last moment ?..

This is perhaps a bit farfetched, but isn't it widely known that there are poisonous mushrooms in the bush up there? Perhaps they would have known this. Perhaps.

 

[NJSleuth91]

For me, Chynna’s sister gets a no-strings-attached hall pass to have and express whatever emotions she has. It WOULD be galling in her position to see her sister’s killer’s family given a platform in this particular way, with Alan’s particular execution. I totally get it. Chynna’s family owes AS nothing, and he has created an emotional burden for them just by agreeing to the 60 minutes feature.

That said, if I read the sentiments in her post in just about any other context, I wouldn’t find them compelling. And I sure wouldn’t see them as insightful, curious or empathetic.

I think it's factually inaccurate that any one influence or factor led to this happening. But I also think she has the right to be upset and angry about whatever she wants.

However, I do think she also had a really good point. She said "Our family had its share of dysfunction too, but we had the courage to ask for help and better ourselves. Your family didn't." Clearly she believes if Kam and Bryer had treatment and intervention -- which, as far as we know right now, they never did -- this could have been prevented. Now of course, it's very difficult to access decent mental health care for a lot of people, especially poor people. And sometimes people hide their problems from their families and nobody else in their lives are paying attention to what's happening with them. So there's a societal factor too on top of this.

But I think there's a lot to be said that, it's not just about the life difficulties or dysfunctions a person has, it's about whether anything is ever done to mitigate the damage caused by those, that determines if they end up being the type of person Chynna was, or the type of person Kam and Bryer were. Some people have insight into their own issues, or their families do, and so they end up seeking treatment and working to better themselves of their own volition. But some people are in such a bad place, or have such a lack of access to those resources, that they don't have the capacity for that. And in that case, who is keeping an eye out for that, to stop them from deteriorating, before they do?

Didn't Chynna have a psychology degree too? I wonder what she would have thought of all this.

 

[JuneBug67]

So she gets a hall pass and he doesn't. Didn't they both lose a loved one?

In both cases I really wish somebody would explain to these folks that they should not be saying these things.

No, he gets a hall pass too. My post didn’t intend to address anything from AS’s side as that was not the subject.

 

[Snoop Sister]

In Ontario there is an "Innocent Victims of Crime" fund. I have no idea how it works exactly, but maybe BC has a similar fund. I don't know if the fund is available to out of country families.

There is a fund through Victims Services in Alberta and I would think BC has similar. However, I too wonder about the availability to out of country families. Worth the research on this...

 

[MistyWaters]

So she gets a hall pass and he doesn't. Didn't they both lose a loved one?

In both cases I really wish somebody would explain to these folks that they should not be saying these things.

I though what CDs sister wrote in response to AS’s public ramblings was appropriate and well-stated. It seems some MSM have chosen to focus on just one or two sentences which doesn’t do her writings full justice IMO. Full post is here -
"But we still forgive you and have mercy": BC murder victim's sister posts message to Bryer Schmegelsky's father - chvnradio.com