Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[MistyWaters]

Are we even sure LD was a Mennonite? I can’t find a link.

Nothing is mentioned here -
In memoriam of Len Dyck | botany.ubc.ca

Another man of the same name passed away in 2017 who was a Mennonite but it doesn’t appear he’s related at all.

I notice it’s mentioned nowhere that I can find, if LD lived anywhere other than Vancouver in the past, nor how long he was a lecturer at UBC. Knowing information about his background, where he lived etc would also lean the odds if he might have carried a gun for protection while in the north country travelling and possibly camping alone.

 

[Sillybilly]

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[NJSleuth91]

A couple of things I’ve wonder about today was;
1. Did the two actually quit Walmart. Or was one or both fired? Or, was one was fired so the other quits? Did that make them angry? Was that a trigger?
2. If they were fired or quit, the parents would understandably be upset with the both of them. Would the drive them both closer together? Making them angry against the parents and grandparent so they say, “I’m out of here.”
3. Did Bryer read Red Flagged? Did Kam read it? Did Bryer talk about it with him? Was there something written in the book that intrigued them? Was that an additional trigger?
Just some thoughts.

Really good questions.

JMO:
1. I wouldn't be surprised at all.
2. Most likely...that was a lot of hours on remote roads for just the two of them to have a very long conversation...I think whatever they talked about on that drive north could have been the turning point.
3. Honestly I doubt it because it seems like Bryer had kind of a distant/awkward relationship with his dad, and likely wouldn't be interested, but who knows.

 

[Zella]

I think in regard to dad's book, Bryer probably was aware of it, politely humored him, and didn't read it, even if he claimed he did.

And I think Bryer would probably have done everything in his power to keep that book away from Kam. As I've said before, Bryer put a lot of effort into keeping his family away from Kam and vice versa. I think any teen would be awkward about their dad's book with their friends, but I think that would be especially true of Bryer with his background.

If he did mention it, I think it was more along the lines of angsty teen ranting "My dad's writing a book, man!"

I doubt Kam expressed any interest, but if he did, I see the conversation ending abruptly: "Yeah, what's it about, dude?" I don't think Bryer wanted to answer that question even if Kam already knew the answer.

MOO

 

[LadyL]

I think in regard to dad's book, Bryer probably was aware of it, politely humored him, and didn't read it, even if he claimed he did.

And I think Bryer would probably have done everything in his power to keep that book away from Kam. As I've said before, Bryer put a lot of effort into keeping his family away from Kam and vice versa. I think any teen would be awkward about their dad's book with their friends, but I think that would be especially true of Bryer with his background.

If he did mention it, I think it was more along the lines of angsty teen ranting "My dad's writing a book, man!"

I doubt Kam expressed any interest, but if he did, I see the conversation ending abruptly: "Yeah, what's it about, dude?" I don't think Bryer wanted to answer that question even if Kam already knew the answer.

MOO

(bbm)

like what - can you link to that info

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think in regard to dad's book, Bryer probably was aware of it, politely humored him, and didn't read it, even if he claimed he did.

And I think Bryer would probably have done everything in his power to keep that book away from Kam. As I've said before, Bryer put a lot of effort into keeping his family away from Kam and vice versa. I think any teen would be awkward about their dad's book with their friends, but I think that would be especially true of Bryer with his background.

If he did mention it, I think it was more along the lines of angsty teen ranting "My dad's writing a book, man!"

I doubt Kam expressed any interest, but if he did, I see the conversation ending abruptly: "Yeah, what's it about, dude?" I don't think Bryer wanted to answer that question even if Kam already knew the answer.

MOO

I totally agree. I get the sense that Bryer was really embarrassed by whatever had happened with his family in the past, and didn't want anyone else to know about it. He obviously wanted there to be a huge buffer zone between his family and the rest of his life for a reason. As close as they were, I have my doubts that even Kam knew about a lot of the details of that stuff. The sad thing is that if it wasn't for that buffer zone, it's possible his family would have known sooner about the extent of what was going on.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

He was Mennonite (per obituary information). He was a professor. I think we need to respect him and his family and assume that he did not have a gun or a gun cabinet - especially since there is absolutely nothing to suggest that he did.

Could you provide a link to the obituary, thanks.

 

[LoisLane]

Snipped:
If the keys belonged to LD, then it's far more likely that they were related to his work somehow, perhaps a locker, lab cupboard, filing cabinet or some such thing.

moo

We do not know who any of the items on the key ring belonged to. We do not know if every item on that key ring belonged to a different person. The crime scene was unattended for an extended period of time.

If anyone has a link to a police statement about the ownership of each of the items on the key ring, please post it here.

I was thinking that if I was LD I would have left all the unnecessary keys at home and only brought the house key and the car key. Maybe he did that and the set found by the burned RAV were added by KM/BS.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think in regard to dad's book, Bryer probably was aware of it, politely humored him, and didn't read it, even if he claimed he did.

And I think Bryer would probably have done everything in his power to keep that book away from Kam. As I've said before, Bryer put a lot of effort into keeping his family away from Kam and vice versa. I think any teen would be awkward about their dad's book with their friends, but I think that would be especially true of Bryer with his background.

If he did mention it, I think it was more along the lines of angsty teen ranting "My dad's writing a book, man!"

I doubt Kam expressed any interest, but if he did, I see the conversation ending abruptly: "Yeah, what's it about, dude?" I don't think Bryer wanted to answer that question even if Kam already knew the answer.

MOO

See I have the opposite take. Kids look up to their parents, and AS was writing about (among other things in his book) serial killers evading prolonged police chases...and what did the kid and his friend end up doing? It's like AS was fascinated by these killers and their ability to circumvent the law, and BS stepped up to become like the people his father wrote about.

 

[otto]

Are we even sure LD was a Mennonite? I can’t find a link.

Nothing is mentioned here -
In memoriam of Len Dyck | botany.ubc.ca

Another man of the same name passed away in 2017 who was a Mennonite but it doesn’t appear he’s related at all.

I notice it’s mentioned nowhere that I can find, if LD lived anywhere other than Vancouver in the past, nor how long he was a lecturer at UBC. Knowing information about his background, where he lived etc would also lean the odds if he might have carried a gun for protection while in the north country travelling and possibly camping alone.

We know that 64 year old Len went to UBC directly after high school and that he completed all 3 degrees at UBC. He has been there throughout his life.

BC has 12 grades. Children start school in the year they turn 6 and they graduate in the year they turn 18. When he was a first year student at UBC he was required to take one year of general studies, mandatory courses like English 100. Then he went into sciences and specialized in botany. He graduated after 5 years in 1978.

"Len completed a Bachelors’ of Science degree in Marine Biology in 1978, then a Masters’ of Science in Botany in 1991 and finally completed his PhD in Botany in 2004. All of his studies were at UBC and he began working for the university as a sessional lecturer in 2003."
​

In memoriam of Len Dyck | botany.ubc.ca

 

[Pyecraft]

See I have the opposite take. Kids look up to their parents, and AS was writing about (among other things in his book) serial killers evading prolonged police chases...and what did the kid and his friend end up doing? It's like AS was fascinated by these killers and their ability to circumvent the law, and BS stepped up to become like the people his father wrote about.

Perhaps trying to earn his father's respect in some weird way?

 

[FactFinder3000]

(edit: removed section I didn't intend to include)

And here is a list of synonyms to "blaze of glory", lest the meaning be lost:

claim to fame
crowning moment
day in the sun
finest hour
heyday
hour of glory
in a blaze of glory
magic
minutes of fame
moment in the sun
moment of glory
moment of triumph
shining moment
swan song
swansong

93 Blaze of glory Synonyms - Other Words for Blaze of glory

You really think AS was trying to say it would be Bryer's "shining moment"?

That's precisely the whole problem here. We don't get to just pick out any meaning we want and then condemn AS for it. He used an idiom in a way that it is commonly used. His intended meaning is quite clear. It's a common usage.

Here's an example where a university professor, an expert in terrorism, is describing a bad guy:

“What we appear to have is someone attempting suicide by police and they wanted to go out by a blaze of glory,” Prof Barton said.
source: Sydney rampage USB stick explained

Is this professor praising the bad guy?

 

[SnooperDuper]

LD may have had a gun but BS and KM were found with two guns.

 

[otto]

See I have the opposite take. Kids look up to their parents, and AS was writing about (among other things in his book) serial killers evading prolonged police chases...and what did the kid and his friend end up doing? It's like AS was fascinated by these killers and their ability to circumvent the law, and BS stepped up to become like the people his father wrote about.

I don't know. When they were towed out of the ditch, they quipped that their parents told them to take a joy ride. I would expect that very close friends probably joked about things that were awkward, like a father's drunken soul ranting on paper for 12 days.

 

[SteveP]

We know that 64 year old Len went to UBC directly after high school and that he completed all 3 degrees at UBC. He has been there throughout his life.

BC has 12 grades. Children start school in the year they turn 6 and they graduate in the year they turn 18. When he was a first year student at UBC he was required to take one year of general studies, mandatory courses like English 100. Then he went into sciences and specialized in botany. He graduated after 5 years in 1978.

"Len completed a Bachelors’ of Science degree in Marine Biology in 1978, then a Masters’ of Science in Botany in 1991 and finally completed his PhD in Botany in 2004. All of his studies were at UBC and he began working for the university as a sessional lecturer in 2003."
​

In memoriam of Len Dyck | botany.ubc.ca

Respectfully, nothing here says anything at all about him being Mennonite.

 

[Errrr]

His father describes him as more or less a neglected child who did not learn to ride a bike and drive a car. I wonder if he learned how to swim or do any sports. If he was a bit neglected, followed by a new step parent and another sibling, it cannot have been easy for him.

Sounds like AS is still slamming his ex and, or BS is feeding him Bull**** that matches dads paradigm to his advantage. Strange how moms acquaintances though BS was being spoiled?

 

[Zella]

(bbm)

like what - can you link to that info

I'll hunt down the links, but Bryer's father and his great-uncle both indicated as such. Bryer's dad said that Bryer was always over at Kam's house and not the other way around. Bryer's great-uncle said he had never met Kam, though he himself spent a fair amount of time at Bryer's. One of the next-door neighbor mom's to Bryer's grandma also said she had never met Kam in the context of him being Bryer's friend, but she interacted with Kam a fair bit when he worked at WM. Knowing how close they were otherwise--with people describing them as inseparable--that all suggests to me that Bryer didn't want Kam around his family or his family around Kam.

Sources:
Bryer's dad:
Extended video from Monday: Father of Port Alberni suspect in northern B.C. murder case speaks to CHEK News (I'm looking for the exact link; this is the wrong one)

Great-uncle:

Neighbor: RCMP continue search for suspects in three B.C. slayings

 

[NJSleuth91]

See I have the opposite take. Kids look up to their parents, and AS was writing about (among other things in his book) serial killers evading prolonged police chases...and what did the kid and his friend end up doing? It's like AS was fascinated by these killers and their ability to circumvent the law, and BS stepped up to become like the people his father wrote about.

I don't think those particular excerpts have been published, so we don't even know the context in which they were mentioned, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Honestly it seems to me like Bryer and his dad had a strained and awkward relationship (not even telling him they were leaving until after they had already left and his dad was on the way to visit him, not responding to his texts while still responding to his grandma, etc.) so I don't really see that happening. I think it's more likely that it just is another example of the similarities between father and son like the ones I've been mentioning. They probably had similar interests in the dark and morbid. Plus, true crime is pretty popular right now, so it could just be that his dad was influenced by the larger culture.

 

[MassGuy]

LD may have had a gun but BS and KM were found with two guns.

They could have started with one, and ended up with two.

That’s the speculation, and there’s nothing to exclude the possibility.

LD could have been murdered, and robbed or more than just his vehicle.

 

[SnooperDuper]

The song 'Blaze of Glory' by Bon Jovi has been mentioned here before.


In the beginning his son was just missing and was not named as a suspect. AS certainly did not say he expected his son would be found dead.


You really think AS was trying to say it would be Bryer's "shining moment"?

That's precisely the whole problem here. We don't get to just pick out any meaning we want and then condemn AS for it. He used an idiom in a way that it is commonly used. His intended meaning is quite clear. It's a common usage.

Here's an example where a university professor, an expert in terrorism, is describing a bad guy:

“What we appear to have is someone attempting suicide by police and they wanted to go out by a blaze of glory,” Prof Barton said.
source: Sydney rampage USB stick explained

Is this professor praising the bad guy?

There is a semantic difference between "They're going to go out in a blaze of glory" (it's a blaze of glory by AS's perspective) and "they wanted to go out by a blaze of glory" (it's a blaze of glory by the perpetrator's perspective).