Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[MistyWaters]

At dusk and from a distance, i do think the "south asian men" could be mistaken for K and B.
Maybe i need glasses, because i don't see two "brown skinned" men, not even two "indian-yellowish" skinned men... Actually, their skin tone is lighter than mine, and i'm caucasian.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

JMO

The RCMP have not reported that anyone identified K and B at dusk from a distance. But they have mentioned physical and digital evidence which links the suspects to the two murder scenes.

 

[Snoop Sister]

These two didn't have any known violent or criminal behavior before this. Bryer did make threats in middle school, but there was never any known action, never any known history of them getting into fights or anything.

We do not know this for a fact. If you have info source please.

This type of group dynamic thing is not even that uncommon. Especially if you factor in alcohol and other drugs, which I suspect were involved in this case too.

There there is nothing in any report that indicates or even hints at the fact that they were actively using alcohol or other drugs on any kind of regular basis.

Op-Ed: We have studied every mass shooting since 1966. Here's what we've learned about the shooters

Unrelated as they were not mass shooters.


Snipped by me

 

[CinNC]

I think that should read, "threatened to treat his mother as AS had treated her". Kids do learn to play their parents war games, and it seems that BS could have learned plenty of negative tactics from AS.

DS works for a homeless shelter and I find it hard to believe that she would not be a compassionate person with a lot of experience dealing with people with mental health and and addiction problems like AS.

At 14-15 kids are pushing the limits and DS was probably trying to lay down the law and getting a lot of push back from BS.
B learned how to play parents off of one another to their advantage.

BS runs away to stay with AS because he figures the house rules will be more amenable to him. There may be no rules with AS but also no house!

BS ends up with DS's mother, where there is a different relationship with no baggage, as there is with BS's parents, and settles in decently.

It'd also be interesting to know what kind of dynamic existed between BS and his stepfather.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think they were stopping places and maintaining relatively decent hygiene during the joyride part of their trip, especially for teenage boys. I've mentioned this before, but they're wearing clean-looking clothes in the video. They've not been driving in those clothes for days without a change.

Their hair also doesn't look oily, Bryer looks pretty clean shaven, and even Kam's beard, though longer than in "normal" pics I've seen of him, isn't that wild looking on his jawline. Nobody reported them appearing disheveled or dirty-looking.

So, I don't find it that odd they weren't covered in mud. I'd say they stopped somewhere and cleaned up. It also wouldn't surprise me if they changed clothes that day for that reason. I also have suspected Bryer had multiple pairs of camo clothes--seems like a look he was fond of.

Also weren't they in the store later that afternoon while the mud odyssey was in the morning? I think they had time to clean up.

MOO

Many campgrounds in rural areas have shower facilities including Cold Lake Provincial Park. It would be as easy as the two driving in and using the facilities without reserving a camping spot. In their escape flight I don’t think they intended to attract any undue attention whatsoever. A muddy car with dirty, muddy occupants surely would.

 

[SiciC]

^^ Above comment is correct. A lot of camp grounds have shower facilities available. And a lot of smaller beach towns do as well...

I think they were stopping places and maintaining relatively decent hygiene during the joyride part of their trip, especially for teenage boys. I've mentioned this before, but they're wearing clean-looking clothes in the video. They've not been driving in those clothes for days without a change.

Their hair also doesn't look oily, Bryer looks pretty clean shaven, and even Kam's beard, though longer than in "normal" pics I've seen of him, isn't that wild looking on his jawline. Nobody reported them appearing disheveled or dirty-looking.

So, I don't find it that odd they weren't covered in mud. I'd say they stopped somewhere and cleaned up. It also wouldn't surprise me if they changed clothes that day for that reason. I also have suspected Bryer had multiple pairs of camo clothes--seems like a look he was fond of.

Also weren't they in the store later that afternoon while the mud odyssey was in the morning? I think they had time to clean up.

MOO

There are also truck stops and gas stations across Canada that have showers available. I think it's likely Chynna and Lucas were also taking advantage of those unless they were to be occasionally staying at several hotels, campgrounds along the way on their roadtrip.

ETA: Wasn't that pic of K & B driving the RAV 4 taken in Saskatchewan? That would probably mean they took the advice of the guy who helped them out of the mud in Cold Lake and got the vehicle washed. He said it was really stuck in there and told them they should wash it for "mom and dad". It didn't look muddy or dirty at all in that Saskatchewan sighting pic. The picture is pretty fuzzy, but still.
jmo.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Many campgrounds in rural areas have shower facilities including Cold Lake Provincial Park. It would be as easy as the two driving in and using the facilities without reserving a camping spot. In their escape flight I don’t think they intended to attract any undue attention whatsoever. A muddy car with dirty, muddy occupants surely would.

Campers need to register (vehicles included) in Cold Lake Provincial Park as well as others in the area. Very difficult to sneak in as attendants are on duty until I believe 11 pm. After that the gates are locked.

 

[Zella]

Many campgrounds in rural areas have shower facilities including Cold Lake Provincial Park. It would be as easy as the two driving in and using the facilities without reserving a camping spot. In their escape flight I don’t think they intended to attract any undue attention whatsoever. A muddy car with dirty, muddy occupants surely would.

That's good to know about the campgrounds! I bet that is where they stopped. It would be more practical and draw less attention than a gas station bathroom.

And I agree with you they weren't trying to attract attention and not looking like mudballs was part of that. I'm not convinced either of them were neat freaks--the description of the half-eaten food apparently left in the Rav 4 grossed me out--but I think they were practicing basic hygiene along the way.

 

[scrappinkat]

DS works for a homeless shelter and I find it hard to believe that she would not be a compassionate person with a lot of experience dealing with people with mental health and and addiction problems like AS.

That homeless shelter only opened in April or May of this year.

 

[LadyL]

Hmm, this is interesting, 2 suspects wanted for multiple warrants, both with beards, wonder what one of them would look like wearing a cap, standing in the middle of the road near the van of CD and LF at night? RCMP have said that their investigation is continuing into the deaths of CD and LF. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/two-men-wanted-nation-wide-warrant-surrey-rcmp- 1.5247255 They could have been driving anything at the time CD and LF were murdered and sounds like they are violent and use guns.

never mind I didn't click the link

Kam sure put cars in ditches a lot. Was he just a bad driver or was he trying to get caught?

I think the other instances were on purpose before they torched them ... they tried to somewhat cover their tracks (stealing i.d., burning evidence) but they were sloppy about it

 

[MistyWaters]

That sounds like a very different thing compared to this case. These two didn't have any known violent or criminal behavior before this. Bryer did make threats in middle school, but there was never any known action, never any known history of them getting into fights or anything.

If either of the two had a juvenile record, that information is sealed and names are not published in the media. If there were prior incidents, we can’t assume anyone directly involved would speak to the media. Odds are they’d speak to investigators and avoid fuelling additional media drama. Other than AS, to date I notice those who have spoken to the media are on the outside parameter of the lives of B and K, as is very common in Canada during a police investigation.

Although the media craves for inside information, I don’t think they’re going to get it prior to information released upon the conclusion of the RCMP investigation.

 

[NJSleuth91]

The only known genes that give an inborn tendency to violence/antisocial behaviors are those affecting the right prefrontal cortex and 1-2 affecting the limbic system, particularly the amygdala.

However, having those genes does not mean that the person will grow up to be a killer. At all. In fact, one of the men who discovered the relationship between the genes for the right prefrontal cortex and antisocial behavior is a doctor. He himself has the gene. You can look him up on youtube. He used fMRI studies and genetic studies to establish the connection (he wasn't the first, but he certainly rethought his own inner life and his relationship to his own right prefrontal cortex, which is the part of the brain that lights up when people ponder moral dilemmas). There is variation in its size and function. The original studies were done on people on death row.

That guy also states that probably the main reason why he's pretty normal, has been in the same relationship since age 12, etc. is because he had great parents and a very healthy upbringing. His name is James Fallon BTW.

I know some people get personally offended for some reason at the idea that past exposure to violence and trauma can increase the risk of criminal behavior, but sorry, that's what all the research says. You're not going to find any researcher in psychology, neurology, etc. saying someone is "born to kill" and their background or environment is irrelevant. It's simply just not factual. There is a large body of research on this topic.

The no plan is why I feel like they didn’t have permission to take the camper truck or they told KM’s parents a different story of where they were going.

Definitely possible.

I think they were stopping places and maintaining relatively decent hygiene during the joyride part of their trip, especially for teenage boys. I've mentioned this before, but they're wearing clean-looking clothes in the video. They've not been driving in those clothes for days without a change.

Their hair also doesn't look oily, Bryer looks pretty clean shaven, and even Kam's beard, though longer than in "normal" pics I've seen of him, isn't that wild looking on his jawline. Nobody reported them appearing disheveled or dirty-looking.

So, I don't find it that odd they weren't covered in mud. I'd say they stopped somewhere and cleaned up. It also wouldn't surprise me if they changed clothes that day for that reason. I also have suspected Bryer had multiple pairs of camo clothes--seems like a look he was fond of.

Also weren't they in the store later that afternoon while the mud odyssey was in the morning? I think they had time to clean up.

MOO

Also, neither of them appear to have any acne in the store footage (that's very high quality camera footage). They must have been washing semi-regularly...I just wonder where.

We do not know this for a fact. If you have info source please.

We don't but so far no known criminal records or family/friends talking about any past criminal activity have come up. In fact family has said quite the opposite, that they were shy quiet gamers who didn't start fights or anything. Unless something comes up indicating they did have a criminal history, I'm going to assume they didn't, since it probably would have come out with all the other stuff.

There there is nothing in any report that they were actively using alcohol or other drugs on any kind of regular basis.

There isn't, but it's JMO that drugs or alcohol were likely involved based on the general picture of the crime we have. Bryer had a picture with alcohol on his Instagram and there was also the famous account of the "Nazi Ritalin party," so I doubt they were straight edge.

Unrelated as they were not mass shooters.

Not unrelated. As I said they fit the psychological profile of mass shooters almost exactly, which likely indicates similar motives if not similar execution. But you're welcome to look up the info yourself on the links between all types of violence and past exposure to violence and trauma...it holds true for all types of violence.

 

[NJSleuth91]

If either of the two had a juvenile record, that information is sealed and names are not published in the media. If there were prior incidents, we can’t assume anyone directly involved would speak to the media. Odds are they’d speak to investigators and avoid fuelling additional media drama. Other than AS, to date I notice those who have spoken to the media are on the outside parameter of the lives of B and K, as is very common in Canada during a police investigation.

Maybe but if they were going around starting fights all the time or something, or if there was some Incident that was town/school gossip, I think it would have come out by now. JMO.

 

[scrappinkat]

discussed at length in previous threads, plus they have their own thread here somewhere

The link was not referring to the two Surrey men who went missing near Logan Lake.

 

[LadyL]

Many campgrounds in rural areas have shower facilities including Cold Lake Provincial Park. It would be as easy as the two driving in and using the facilities without reserving a camping spot. In their escape flight I don’t think they intended to attract any undue attention whatsoever. A muddy car with dirty, muddy occupants surely would.

I've never been to a campground where you didn't have to register at the gate and the gates are locked after hours. Unless they used stolen credit cards to get in.

 

[LadyL]

The link was not referring to the two Surrey men who went missing near Logan Lake.

oops I didn't click the link my mistake

ETA: we sure have a lot of wanted suspects lately

 

[MistyWaters]

Campers need to register (vehicles included) in Cold Lake Provincial Park as well as others in the area. Very difficult to sneak in as attendants are on duty until I believe 11 pm. After that the gates are locked.

Yes registration is required for a camping spot. I never said they stayed there overnight, the discussion was about usage of showers during the daytime. Govt campgrounds are accessible to anyone who chooses to go there and stop to use the restroom facilities. They are not “guarded” as many campers also have visitors who come and go.

 

[LadyL]

Yes registration is required for a camping spot. I never said they stayed there overnight, the discussion was about usage of showers during the daytime. Govt campgrounds are accessible to anyone who chooses to drive through and stop to use the restroom facilities.

but you can't get in at anytime without registering at the gate, even during the daytime

ETA: At the ones I've been at, visitors have to check in at the gate and the campers have to register the # of visitors to their campsite and name of the driver

 

[dasbavaria]

That's good to know about the campgrounds! I bet that is where they stopped. It would be more practical and draw less attention than a gas station bathroom.

I've done a cross Alberta and BC trip and the easiest is to use truck stops. The camp grounds are quite well patrolled and they likely would have been spotted. Most campgrounds also lock up after 11/12.

 

[MistyWaters]

I've never been to a campground where you didn't have to register at the gate and the gates are locked after hours. Unless they used stolen credit cards to get in.

Some govt campgrounds use an honour system where the nightly fee is supposed to be dropped in a lockbox. Not saying Cold Lake does, just that campgrounds in rural and less frequented areas are not all operated the same as highly popular tourist destinations.

 

[Zella]

Also, neither of them appear to have any acne in the store footage (that's very high quality camera footage). They must have been washing semi-regularly...I just wonder where.

SBM

That's a good point about the acne. Incidentally, I don't remember any noticeable/severe acne in any of their pictures. They must have had better complexions at that age than I did!