Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #17

[Zella]

About K&B's illogical packing of a gaming computer and other things: Hasn't anyone ever overpacked for a trip? Hasn't anyone under-packed for a trip? Hasn't anyone opened their suitcase and thought, "What was I thinking, bringing that?" I have and I'm somewhat a seasoned traveller. It's impossible to speculate about why anyone does anything, isn't it?

It's clear the social net (not social network) but the mesh that holds a society together failed. But it failed a looooong time before they packed their computers and a suit in a camper.

I never actually found the gaming computers to be weird to bring. They had told their families they were leaving to find work, so since they both were enthusiastic gamers, I would have been surprised if they didn't bring stuff like that if they said they would be gone awhile. Now, whether they did that just because it helped the cover story or because they genuinely planned to be gone awhile, I don't know. MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

I still think that they did not have a conscious plan to kill anyone. My dad (who was in WW2) said the worst person to have on your team was someone who was afraid. Studies actually support my dad's view. If two people have guns (for whatever reason, they did have guns) and they are intending to rob someone or just mess with them, the scared person is far more likely to just shoot.

If they did talk it over in advance, and they planned to shoot under particular circumstances ("if they don't give us their ****, we'll just shoot 'em!") then one of them might have perceived that shooting should commence (as Bryer does all the time in his video playing) and the agreement was that if one shot, they both shoot (you know, like gang members always do, often without actually discussing it - it's understood).

Agreed. Also, maybe because they were so used to video games, they were sort of primed to shoot, without necessarily being aware of it.

About K&B's illogical packing of a gaming computer and other things: Hasn't anyone ever overpacked for a trip? Hasn't anyone under-packed for a trip? Hasn't anyone opened their suitcase and thought, "What was I thinking, bringing that?" I have and I'm somewhat a seasoned traveller. It's impossible to speculate about why anyone does anything, isn't it?

It's clear the social net (not social network) but the mesh that holds a society together failed. But it failed a looooong time before they packed their computers and a suit in a camper.

They way overpacked for a murder trip. But they also way underpacked, because I don't think they really brought much in the way of long-term survival gear (JMO).

 

[10ofRods]

Nevertheless, the crucial detail is that they had guns. Perhaps they thought that was their "long term survival gear."

I don't think they planned a murder trip, at all. But that's what happened and they were coping as best they could, after that. Including meting out justice to themselves when all else failed.

But initially they somehow thought they were going to get jobs and live somewhere that they could use a computer. And a suit.

 

[KR72]

It appears that Bryer changed his username several times on Steam. If you go to his account and click on the drop down arrow beside his name, it shows you all the usernames he's used.

Steam Community :: Bryer

Also, one of the groups he was part of (Ablaze Terrorists) has his image in their wallpaper/theme.

 

[bcgirl]

Does it look to you that Kam had a haircut and beard trim after the Fairview photo, and before the Meadow Lake photo?

It appears that the sides have been cut short for sure and the beard.....sure looks like him to me.

 

[Esprite]

Yeah as I've mentioned on here before, I was told by an experienced bank robber that the worst person to bring along on an armed robbery was a nervous person. He said it was a recipe for chaos, capture, and violence.

Many years ago, I witnessed a bank robbery from inside a mall bank. A loaded sawed-off shotgun went off, because two men behind the two robbers in the bank lineup decided to tackle the guy carrying the gun in a trash bag. No one was hurt, and the noise was incredible, but the gun guy never lost his cool. The guy holding the moneybag seemed terrified though.

 

[Jan424]

I agree and I'm still shocked at how emotionally vested I've become in this whole case. I even dragged my coworker into it and now she's utterly obsessed. Mostly because I've seen so many aspects of my own life in both Kam and Bryer. It made me think of a story that happened in 2012. I went to college in Germany for awhile and I remember one thing I knew I absolutely could not live without abroad was my Xbox 360. I'm a huge gamer, not a PC gamer like them, but there was no way I was leaving America without my beloved gaming console. Even being on a life adventure an Ocean away from friends and family that console was still a comfort item. Those boys taking their computers along told me they did intend on having a life together somewhere else and it was not meant to be a suicide mission.

I have tried to drag some friends into this case ... no luck so, thankfully, I have Websleuths. Yes, the computer is a fact I can't get past or reasonably explain away in the "thrill kill, suicide mission" scenario. Yet, somewhere, somehow, things went badly south ... and quickly too. I actually find the unplanned scenario more confusing and depressing in some ways.

 

[Moriarty]

For anyone academically inclined, I've been reading "Characteristics of Canadian Youth-Perpetrated Homicides" by Woodworth, Agar and Coupland. (SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals), trying to see what statistics might tell us about these two and the murders they are alleged to have committed. I know KM and BS are technically adults, but from much of what we have learned they seem like youth still in many ways (emotionally, maturity, etc.)

Quick Summary of 105 youth murderers who killed between 1990 and 2008 (for what it's worth...statistics can only tell us so much): For multiple perpetrators, 66.7% of the time the victim is a stranger; 81.6% of the time the homicide occurred as part of theft or robbery; 81.3% of the time, the homicide was instrumental or a planned part of the robbery but something reactive occurred to trigger it.

So take it for what you will, while we wait for further developments.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Also, one of the groups he was part of (Ablaze Terrorists) has his image in their wallpaper/theme.

Do you think Tim Berners-Lee ever regrets creating the internet?

For anyone academically inclined, I've been reading "Characteristics of Canadian Youth-Perpetrated Homicides" by Woodworth, Agar and Coupland. (SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals), trying to see what statistics might tell us about these two and the murders they are alleged to have committed. I know KM and BS are technically adults, but from much of what we have learned they seem like youth still in many ways (emotionally, maturity, etc.)

Quick Summary of 105 youth murderers who killed between 1990 and 2008 (for what it's worth...statistics can only tell us so much): For multiple perpetrators, 66.7% of the time the victim is a stranger; 81.6% of the time the homicide occurred as part of theft or robbery; 81.3% of the time, the homicide was instrumental or a planned part of the robbery but something reactive occurred to trigger it.

So take it for what you will, while we wait for further developments.

You always have the best sources!

Also remember Port Alberni has a pretty high theft and robbery rate.

 

[musicaljoke]

It appears that the sides have been cut short for sure and the beard.....sure looks like him to me.

Yes, I thought the sides looked cut too, but it's hard to tell for sure. If a (bi)weekly haircut was part of either suspects' routine, then perhaps they did see the hairdresser upon arriving at Meadow Lake. Personal grooming seems important enough that a haircut could fit with what is evident about their behaviour.

 

[Jan424]

I never actually found the gaming computers to be weird to bring. They had told their families they were leaving to find work, so since they both were enthusiastic gamers, I would have been surprised if they didn't bring stuff like that if they said they would be gone awhile. Now, whether they did that just because it helped the cover story or because they genuinely planned to be gone awhile, I don't know. MOO

Yes, this is exactly what I'm wondering.

 

[Jan424]

Yes, I thought the sides looked cut too, but it's hard to tell for sure. If a (bi)weekly haircut was part of either suspects' routine, then perhaps they did see the hairdresser upon arriving at Meadow Lake. Personal grooming seems important enough that a haircut could fit with what is evident about their behaviour.

Personally, I don't think Kam's hair/beard looks any different in the photos. This alleged sighting should really be fairly easy to confirm, if they used their real names during the appointments. I have two family members who own hair salons and all client names, even walk in customers, are put into the schedule. This is necessary for end of day totals, particularly if there are multiple stylists in the salon. Of course, a one-person operation maybe does things differently, but not sure why they would. JMO

 

[Moriarty]

It appears that Bryer changed his username several times on Steam. If you go to his account and click on the drop down arrow beside his name, it shows you all the usernames he's used.

Steam Community :: Bryer

Also, one of the groups he was part of (Ablaze Terrorists) has his image in their wallpaper/theme.

I just looked at them...wow. That one username and avatar is interesting too...

 

[Grouper]

It appears that Bryer changed his username several times on Steam. If you go to his account and click on the drop down arrow beside his name, it shows you all the usernames he's used.

Steam Community :: Bryer

Also, one of the groups he was part of (Ablaze Terrorists) has his image in their wallpaper/theme.

What’s that face that Kam posted (and Bryer copied) to his Steam comments on June 4th??

 

[KR72]

I just looked at them...wow. That one username and avatar is interesting too...

You're talking about the person who's using Bryer's pic? Yeah. So now some people are going to hero worship these two? Sickening.

As far as one of Bryer's user names goes, incredibly offensive.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN REMINDER:

Websleuths discussion is fact based. We are seeing way too many posts where members are just emphatically stating something as fact when it really is just their opinion.

Facts require links.

Opinions require MOOs, IMOs, "I believe ..." "I think ..." etc.

It is very important in our discussions to distinguish between the two because if opinions get misinterpreted and restated as fact later in the thread, the discussion is no longer credible.

 

[Moriarty]

You're talking about the person who's using Bryer's pic? Yeah. So now some people are going to hero worship these two? Sickening.

As far as one of Bryer's user names goes, incredibly offensive.

It really is troubling. Also, I'm not sure about rules here, so I won't spell it out, but run that users Cyrillic username through a Russian to English translator...

 

[KR72]

It really is troubling. Also, I'm not sure about rules here, so I won't spell it out, but run that users Cyrillic username through a Russian to English translator...

Wow!

Now run the Cyrillic usernames Bryer used. Weird.

 

[Moriarty]

so since they both were enthusiastic gamers

I wonder if that's actually true? We don't know much about Kam, and if you hover over his gamer icon in Steam, it says he has 0 exp and 0 levels earned, as opposed to Bryer's 11 levels. Maybe that is simply because Kam's account is private so we can't see his levels...

I don't even know how you get experience or levels on Steam. I've had an account for years on there to play Football Manager and never even noticed if I have levels or experience earned...

 

[cherrytree9]

I wonder if that's actually true? We don't know much about Kam, and if you hover over his gamer icon in Steam, it says he has 0 exp and 0 levels earned, as opposed to Bryer's 11 levels. Maybe that is simply because Kam's account is private so we can't see his levels...

I don't even know how you get experience or levels on Steam. I've had an account for years on there to play Football Manager and never even noticed if I have levels or experience earned...

One of his friends said he was an avid gamer in an article somewhere. The 0 exp/level shows on every private profile, so that's probably why. Your level increases with the number of games you buy and badges you get.

[Edit: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...c-teens-subject-of-national-manhunt-1.5222515
Branden McHale, a friend of McLeod's, described him as a big gaming nerd and a happy person.
He said McLeod was mostly into fantasy video games like League of Legends."]