Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[Schmoosh]

I'm no expert in what constitutes thrill kill but I definitely think the murders were unnecessary. Those people didn't have to die. They could've stolen Tim's truck out of his driveway or let him live. I don't think money or trucks were really that important to Dellen, I personally think it was power and the challenge. It all seemed like a game to him is the impression I got, JMO

In Dellen's case, his Dad was about to cut him off financially. As for Tim Bosma, he had the exact truck Dellen had searched for for weeks. Had Tim Bosma driven, say, a Toyota Rav 4, he never would have met Dellen and he'd be alive right now. If I recall, Dellen had wrecked the truck he'd used to haul stuff to go to his races in the Baha, so he needed a suitable replacement, and Tim's truck make and model fit the bill.

If someone can define what a thrill-kill is (I'm assuming they mean it's to "kill someone just for the heck of it" as being the only motive) with a real-life proven example (e.g. where the perp admitted they did it just for kicks), that would definitely help!

 

[SteveP]

I think if you point a rifle at RCMP you would very quickly be shot dead. They would tell you to drop your weapon, and if you pointed it at them, they would fire.

A quick google search shows plenty of cases where they have shot somebody armed only with a knife.
rcmp shooting knife - Google Search

I believe that is true of cops anywhere. I know there have been some instances in the US where unarmed suspects have been shot, but that is far from the norm, regardless of what headlines sometimes scream. There have been and still are many cops in my extended family, and I can tell you, most assuredly, almost every cop, everywhere, would rather take a suspect in alive than dead. Negotiations can be , should be, and most often are helpful in getting armed suspects to peacefully surrender. But...if an armed suspect points a gun at a cop, any cop, and refuses to drop said weapon after being repeatedly asked, only a fool would refuse to open fire to eliminate the threat to his own life. JMO

 

[Gina20]

I believe that is true of cops anywhere. I know there have been some instances in the US where unarmed suspects have been shot, but that is far from the norm, regardless of what headlines sometimes scream. There have been and still are many cops in my extended family, and I can tell you, most assuredly, almost every cop, everywhere, would rather take a suspect in alive than dead. Negotiations can be , should be, and most often are helpful in getting armed suspects to peacefully surrender. But...if an armed suspect points a weapon at a cop, any cop, and refuses to drop said weapon after being repeatedly asked, only a fool would refuse to open fire to eliminate the threat. JMO

Another recent example:

Police used less-lethal rounds on man brandishing machete: ASRIT

Three hours to take this guy down.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Want to bet that they bought sleeping bags at Walmart, i.e. common ones? TSC was not in northern Manitoba. He did not see the sleeping bag in the Nelson River. He saw a photo of a sleeping bag. The sleeping bag in Manitoba was not confirmed to belong to BS and KM.

I guess we all get to choose what we believe, based on credibility. IMO, this is weak.

What I had initially said was that TSC had said the cop told him that BS and KM had no criminal record, but to take that with a grain of salt because TSC did a lot of media and his story kept growing and growing until it included the sleeping bag!

I am actually skeptical of a lot of witness accounts as people try to insert themselves in a big story - especially the Ritalin tale.

So, there is a claim that BS and KM had "no criminal record" on the record, but because of where it came from it won't settle the debate.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Want to bet that they bought sleeping bags at Walmart, i.e. common ones? TSC was not in northern Manitoba. He did not see the sleeping bag in the Nelson River. He saw a photo of a sleeping bag. The sleeping bag in Manitoba was not confirmed to belong to BS and KM.

I guess we all get to choose what we believe, based on credibility. IMO, this is weak.

How come nobody here has seen the photo of the sleeping bag? So yes, the story is weak. But it's possible. He said he saw the sleeping bag hanging on a fence while they were trying to pull the car out. Odd, but why not?

 

[MistyWaters]

I keep wondering if the job hunt was a complete lie they told their famlies so that they could take the camper truck and get some cash. I mean, really, what kind of job do a couple of guys who graduated from an alternative high school with no further training/skills or education think they're going to get?

Most people with a grade 12 education don't do well in the job market and are pretty limited to minimum wage type jobs. Even if they thought they were going to find jobs on the tar sands, MOST of those jobs advertised these days seem to require a skill/trade or experience. There's always exceptions, of course.

I don't blame young people for wanting to go on an adventure and look for work, but something tells me that whole job hunting story was just that, a story.

Fort McMurray (oil sands) was not specifically mentioned on their job hunt. But I agree, if there’s no evidence to indicate job hunting was ever high on their priority list, even though they deceived their families into helping them get set up in the truck and camper.........then I think their initial intention was to support themselves by pilfering and stealing whatever they could lay their hands on for as long as possible and live the life of a male duo in modern times similar to Bonnie and Clyde but on a smaller scale. Given the remoteness, the remoteness of the north country with its summer camping/tourism could be mistaken for a burglar’s paradise by two young men who were unworldly and naive.

So maybe instead the thrill of theft just wasn’t thrilling enough and has become so common, unfortunately, often it’s a waste of time for people to even report theft. So then came committing murder and the thrill of cross country escape from authorities. Far more tantalizing and exciting than petty thievery, is my guess.

 

[CinNC]

How come nobody here has seen the photo of the sleeping bag? So yes, the story is weak. But it's possible. He said he saw the sleeping bag hanging on a fence while they were trying to pull the car out. Odd, but why not?

Makes me wonder why the sleeping bag was hanging on the fence. To dry, most likely. Maybe they placed it in front of or behind their drive tires to try and get traction. Or used it to stand on themselves to avoid slipping in mud while trying to push Rav4 out of mud. Maybe it smelled and they thought it was as good a time as any to air it out, since they were stuck. MOO, but there must have been a reason for it. It doesn't seem likely that it was just done randomly. What do you think?

 

[Gina20]

How come nobody here has seen the photo of the sleeping bag? So yes, the story is weak. But it's possible. He said he saw the sleeping bag hanging on a fence while they were trying to pull the car out. Odd, but why not?

Apparently, they had fireproof sleeping bags.

Canadian killer fugitives' trail of clues: Billowing smoke, sardine cans, sleeping bag helped end manhunt

A sleeping bag was found inside the charred vehicle. What kind of sleeping bag can do that? Maybe these were sleeping bags with superpowers!

 

[SnooperDuper]

How come nobody here has seen the photo of the sleeping bag? So yes, the story is weak. But it's possible. He said he saw the sleeping bag hanging on a fence while they were trying to pull the car out. Odd, but why not?

Yeah, I never saw any photos. Credibility: debatable.

 

[Schmoosh]

How come nobody here has seen the photo of the sleeping bag? So yes, the story is weak. But it's possible. He said he saw the sleeping bag hanging on a fence while they were trying to pull the car out. Odd, but why not?

A photo of it on the fence? Because the witness never took a picture of it. A photo of it in the tree along the river? Because if the RCMP took a picture of it, it's potential evidence. And we're not sure if the river guide took a picture of it and shared it with the RCMP when he reported it, but if he did, he didn't share it with the media.

I wonder now if they off-road camped close to or at where they got stuck, which is a little further down that alleyway than I'd originally thought. I had earlier assumed they've have camped at the main campground in Cold Lake just down the road. If they had camped down the alleyway, it'd be a normal thing to hang the sleeping bag out in the morning as it had been fairly wet/damp around those parts during that time after a bunch of rainy days.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I'd like to hear some theories of why people may think KM and BS's only motivation was to thrill-kill.

1) They're so young. You give someone even another 5 years of adult life and there is a huge difference in understanding the outcome of your actions. A younger person can't see things from other people's perspectives well. They have less guilt and shame preventing them from doing things until it is hammered into them through the process of life.

In that way they are just like the uninhibited drug user or self-centered grievance collector, but only because of their own innocence.

2) There's no clear motive. If it was for money, where are they going to spend it in the bush? If it were for supplies or a vehicle, why burn the perfectly good stuff they had? They were not materially enriched in any way, they got nothing out of it. So why kill 3 people to get nothing?

3) They lacked other plans. They just drove around the highways like circling sharks without checking into any destination (or offering any clear destination to their families). It's like there was no point to their itinerary than to wander around looking for their opportunity.

 

[FactFinder3000]

A photo of it on the fence? Because the witness never took a picture of it. A photo of it in the tree along the river? Because if the RCMP took a picture of it, it's potential evidence. And we're not sure if the river guide took a picture of it and shared it with the RCMP when he reported it, but if he did, he didn't share it with the media.

I wonder now if they off-road camped close to or at where they got stuck, which is a little further down that alleyway than I'd originally thought. I had earlier assumed they've have camped at the main campground in Cold Lake just down the road. If they had camped down the alleyway, it'd be a normal thing to hang the sleeping bag out in the morning as it had been fairly wet/damp around those parts during that time after a bunch of rainy days.

The person who helped them get unstuck claimed he saw a picture of the sleeping bag found in/near the river, and it matched what he saw hanging on the fence.

I suppose the RCMP could have showed him a picture, and asked if it matched.

Apparently, they had fireproof sleeping bags.

Canadian killer fugitives' trail of clues: Billowing smoke, sardine cans, sleeping bag helped end manhunt

A sleeping bag was found inside the charred vehicle. What kind of sleeping bag can do that? Maybe these were sleeping bags with superpowers!

And now we have yet another sleeping bag, a fireproof one?

I've always found this claim that sardine cans and pork chops fell out of the vehicle to be quite dubious. The RAV4 looks incredibly burnt. How would pork chops survive that? It's impossible. Unless maybe they were wrapped in the fire proof sleeping bag, lol.

 

[Gina20]

The person who helped them get unstuck claimed he saw a picture of the sleeping bag found in/near the river, and it matched what he saw hanging on the fence.

I suppose the RCMP could have showed him a picture, and asked if it matched.

And now we have yet another sleeping bag, a fireproof one?

I've always found this claim that sardine cans and pork chops fell out of the vehicle to be quite dubious. The RAV4 looks incredibly burnt. How would pork chops survive that? It's impossible. Unless maybe they were wrapped in the fire proof sleeping bag, lol.

That makes as much sense as...the police were on their way to look at a blue sleeping bag caught up in a willow on the Nelson River, when they spotted a wrecked boat and it led them to the final resting place of two peeps that had led them on a cross-country manhunt. And we don't know if they ever followed up on the incredible sleeping bag that led them to all the answers. The sleeping bags in this yarn have magical powers. It's the only explanation for how this fantastic story unfolded. Kindly suspend disbelief.

 

[CinNC]

The person who helped them get unstuck claimed he saw a picture of the sleeping bag found in/near the river, and it matched what he saw hanging on the fence.

I suppose the RCMP could have showed him a picture, and asked if it matched.



And now we have yet another sleeping bag, a fireproof one?

I've always found this claim that sardine cans and pork chops fell out of the vehicle to be quite dubious. The RAV4 looks incredibly burnt. How would pork chops survive that? It's impossible. Unless maybe they were wrapped in the fire proof sleeping bag, lol.

Perhaps they had a "doggie bag" with leftover pork chops from an earlier meal at a restaurant/diner, and were munching away as they set fire to the RAV4 and got ready to leave. They'd have likely realized it was some of the last food that was guaranteed them for a while, and made a point of eating it before setting out for the bush. That was my initial reaction when I heard about pork chops and orange peels found near the burn site. MOO

 

[FactFinder3000]

Makes me wonder why the sleeping bag was hanging on the fence. To dry, most likely. Maybe they placed it in front of or behind their drive tires to try and get traction. Or used it to stand on themselves to avoid slipping in mud while trying to push Rav4 out of mud. Maybe it smelled and they thought it was as good a time as any to air it out, since they were stuck. MOO, but there must have been a reason for it. It doesn't seem likely that it was just done randomly. What do you think?

My initial thought was that maybe they removed the sleeping bag to get at something under it. There is a rather large storage compartment under the floor of the RAV4.

But who knows, really? I do think if it was covered in mud the helpful bystander would have mentioned it.

 

[Schmoosh]

The person who helped them get unstuck claimed he saw a picture of the sleeping bag found in/near the river, and it matched what he saw hanging on the fence.

I suppose the RCMP could have showed him a picture, and asked if it matched.



And now we have yet another sleeping bag, a fireproof one?

I've always found this claim that sardine cans and pork chops fell out of the vehicle to be quite dubious. The RAV4 looks incredibly burnt. How would pork chops survive that? It's impossible. Unless maybe they were wrapped in the fire proof sleeping bag, lol.

Yup I really do think when the report comes out, it'll flip everything people have assumed happened.

 

[Gina20]

My initial thought was that maybe they removed the sleeping bag to get at something under it. There is a rather large storage compartment under the floor of the RAV4.

But who knows, really? I do think if it was covered in mud the helpful bystander would have mentioned it.

Perfect for hiding weapons, too.

 

[FactFinder3000]

That makes as much sense as...the police were on their way to look at a blue sleeping bag caught up in a willow on the Nelson River, when they spotted a wrecked boat and it led them to the final resting place of two peeps that had led them on a cross-country manhunt. And we don't know if they ever followed up on the incredible sleeping bag that led them to all the answers. The sleeping bags in this yarn have magical powers. It's the only explanation for how this fantastic story unfolded. Kindly suspend disbelief.

I'm not sure what your issue is with all of this... you don't believe the guide's story? (The guy who said police were going to check out the sleeping bag he reported when they spotted the boat?)

 

[Gina20]

Perhaps they had a "doggie bag" with leftover pork chops from an earlier meal at a restaurant/diner, and were munching away as they set fire to the RAV4 and got ready to leave. They'd have likely realized it was some of the last food that was guaranteed them for a while, and made a point of eating it before setting out for the bush. That was my initial reaction when I heard about pork chops and orange peels found near the burn site. MOO

Conveniently, a restaurant in the area features pork chops on the menu.

 

[Gina20]

I'm not sure what your issue is with all of this... you don't believe the guide's story? (The guy who said police were going to check out the sleeping bag he reported when they spotted the boat?)

I believe the guide.