Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[NJSleuth91]

I could go either way with the other "close friends". I do think B&K were each other's closest friends at this point .... I'm not surprised they had other friends they hung out with. Of course, they did. But that's not the same as being close friends with someone.

Especially for guys, I think a lot of times they can be close friends with someone but not really interact with them on a deeper level. Like it's more that they just share hobbies and interests and spend a lot of time together. That doesn't mean that they don't care about each other -- and I'm sure those friends are grieving too -- but it's more that guys are less likely to open up in general, and especially if they're as shy and emotionally stunted as these two seemed to be. But clearly, there were a lot of things that Kam and Bryer only talked about with each other. I think their friendship was on a different level from all their other friendships...I mean, clearly it was. (BTW I find it interesting that Bryer's dad speculated on it being a "Thelma and Louise" situation...you could read a lot into that statement....)

I have always agreed that Kam had to be of like minds with Bryer, otherwise, he could have not tolerated Bryer's thoughts and behavior all of these years. He would have likely drifted from him, as I've said numerous times in my posts. Whether Kam was bullied ... it is entirely possible (Bryer's bullying is so easy for me to believe tho). Sigh .... I can speculate about Kam until the cows come home, but at this point it is just a guessing game.

I just can't imagine that he would have related to Bryer that much if they hadn't gone through some similar experiences. Also I guess I feel kind of more confident about my intuitions now since so many things I theorized on were confirmed in this interview (this case has made me realize I have a lot of abilities I didn't know I had....)

Yes, I do agree they wanted to escape .... I think suicide was an acceptable plan B for them. They were never going to prison. All MOO

I'm not even sure that they wanted to escape, or thought they could. It's possible it took them that long to decide to kill themselves, or were just seeing how long they could last because why not. Bryer looks sort of peaceful in the store footage, and people who have decided to kill themselves often feel content leading up to it. Some of us have speculated that he had already decided to die and was kind of just staying around to look after Kam until Kam was able to go through with it. Kam looks really upset to me in the store footage so I don't think he was ready to die yet.

Good question on the warning signs for Kam .... I hope we do find out eventually. I would think there has to be something.

I'd bet real actual money that something comes out.

Do we have any thoughts of who took that picture of Bryer with the gun in his mouth? Wouldn't that be a difficult selfie? JMO

It looks like a screenshot from a webcam livestream.

 

[SovereignSnake]

@LoisLane Thank you for sharing the shorter video clip. Interesting that Alan points out Bryer's "4 close friends." There must have been something substantial there otherwise why would he even think about the other three (assuming) guys? I'm curious if the RCMP ever got a hold of any or all of them for any questioning? It would seem the media has not otherwise it would have surfaced. Not to mention, they themselves offering to come forward with information. Perhaps if they knew something about Kam and Bryer's plan to leave Port Alberni. Also interesting, if anyone of these other three (guys) were ever considered by Kam and Bryer to join on this endeavor? My instincts tell me absolutely not. They just weren't as intimate as friends as Kam and Bryer. I mean yes, friends talk, we all share our thoughts and plans with one another and get others input. It makes me wonder though were these other three "close friends" but perhaps not as close as Kam and Bryer. What I mean by that is, we all have levels of friends, but we sort of classify them. I've got what I call my "first tier" friends. Friends I see all the time and even talk to every day or so and hangout with on a weekly basis. We share some of the deepest and darkest together and the conversations can get controversial and emotionally heavy but then again, we're comfortable. The "second tier" are like the ones I see every couple of weeks to a month. Maybe go to a movie or a concert or whatever. Maybe a random night of drinking. Good friends, but we just don't have as great of a bond as the first tier friends. There's "elements" that are missing. There's things I may not share with the second tier like I would with the first tier. (This is what I could classify these three other friends as that Alan mentioned.) Then there's the casual "third tier" friends I see only every few months or just when the stars align and we bump into one another. We'll talk but it's not heavy conversation, more banter. These are the fair weather friends I've mentioned in other posts. So there were likely more friends for both Kam and Bryer but I don't think it was as "comfort zone" as their friendship was. I think Kam and Bryer had a very effortless bond with one another. Like a soulmate bond. I love those kinds of friendships and they are incredibly rare. I've only had a couple of them throughout the years but I absolutely cherish them.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Interesting that Alan points out Bryer's "4 close friends." There must have been something substantial there otherwise why would he even think about the other three (assuming) guys?

We don't know what questions he was asked leading up to that. I know the reporter was asking him who the Bryer he knew was like, so it could have been in response to that, saying that Bryer did have other friends, as opposed to what the media has been indicating.

I'm curious if the RCMP ever got a hold of any or all of them for any questioning?

I'm positive they did. But I doubt that anything came of it -- their friends were likely just as baffled as everyone else.

It would seem the media has not otherwise it would have surfaced.

Yes and I'm sure that's intentional on their friends' part. People have been suspicious of why more of Kam and Bryer's friends haven't come forward to talk about them being nice people, and the people who have come forward seem to be people who weren't that close to them. I mean...would you? Why would anyone, especially a teenager who is grieving, open themselves up to being targeted like "Why were you friends with Nazi murderers? Why do you think they were nice if they killed people? Maybe you're about to go on a killing spree too!" Internet commenters can be pretty savage. I wouldn't be surprised if their friends made all their social media private, too, to avoid the media discovering them. And I think the media should not try to find them either, if they have any decency...leave them alone.

Also interesting, if anyone of these other three (guys) were ever considered by Kam and Bryer to join on this endeavor? My instincts tell me absolutely not. They just weren't as intimate as friends as Kam and Bryer. I mean yes, friends talk, we all share our thoughts and plans with one another and get others input.

My instincts also tell me absolutely not. I think they probably did know that Kam and Bryer wanted to leave Port Alberni, and they probably discussed leaving in the past (since Bryer's dad said Bryer was discussing how he wanted to leave for a long time).

It makes me wonder though were these other three "close friends" but perhaps not as close as Kam and Bryer. What I mean by that is, we all have levels of friends, but we sort of classify them. I've got what I call my "first tier" friends. Friends I see all the time and even talk to every day or so and hangout with on a weekly basis. We share some of the deepest and darkest together and the conversations can get controversial and emotionally heavy but then again, we're comfortable. The "second tier" are like the ones I see every couple of weeks to a month. Maybe go to a movie or a concert or whatever. Maybe a random night of drinking. Good friends, but we just don't have as great of a bond as the first tier friends. There's "elements" that are missing. There's things I may not share with the second tier like I would with the first tier. (This is what I could classify these three other friends as that Alan mentioned.) Then there's the casual "third tier" friends I see only every few months or just when the stars align and we bump into one another. We'll talk but it's not heavy conversation, more banter. These are the fair weather friends I've mentioned in other posts.

Yes, I definitely see this too. And I think probably most of the people who interviewed were in the third tier. Their other three close friends were probably second tier, or like, 1.5 tier.

So there were likely more friends for both Kam and Bryer but I don't think it was as "comfort zone" as their friendship was. I think Kam and Bryer had a very effortless bond with one another. Like a soulmate bond. I love those kinds of friendships and they are incredibly rare. I've only had a couple of them throughout the years but I absolutely cherish them.

One of the sad parts is that their friendship could have been used as a force of good instead, and helped them to become better people. I don't think they even realized how lucky they were to have such a close, "ride or die" friendship. Some people never have one. And especially to have one that lasts 14 years is very rare.

 

[Jan424]

SBM
Especially for guys, I think a lot of times they can be close friends with someone but not really interact with them on a deeper level. Like it's more that they just share hobbies and interests and spend a lot of time together. That doesn't mean that they don't care about each other -- and I'm sure those friends are grieving too -- but it's more that guys are less likely to open up in general, and especially if they're as shy and emotionally stunted as these two seemed to be. But clearly, there were a lot of things that Kam and Bryer only talked about with each other. I think their friendship was on a different level from all their other friendships...I mean, clearly it was. (BTW I find it interesting that Bryer's dad speculated on it being a "Thelma and Louise" situation...you could read a lot into that statement....)
Kam looks really upset to me in the store footage so I don't think he was ready to die yet.

Totally agree with all you have said here ..... in a nutshell, their friendship was on a completely different level from all others. And I'm with you on the T&L statement ... it was especially interesting coming from AS.
When I saw Kam's expression exiting the Co-op, my first impression (even now too) was that he was focused and something else I couldn't put my finger on, but made me think p.o.'d about something. Or, as you have said, upset.
Definitely. JMO

 

[SovereignSnake]

I wanted to postulate another possible scenario that happened with Lucas and Chynna. Alan had suggested in the interview that maybe they stopped to check on them and "they had a beer together." I'm not so certain that was a possibility but who knows? I still can't picture Kam and Bryer stopping and asking if they needed help and even hanging out with them for a couple hours. It seems, with Kam particularly, he wasn't interested in "outsiders" or perhaps you had to gain his trust before he would open up to you. He really does strike me as incredibly shy and can clam up he's round unfamiliar people. That may also be a result of being bullied perhaps for being shy. If either Bryer or Kam were the "approach complete strangers type" I would say it was Bryer. Now what about this, what if they did happen upon the van later in the night at say dusk (and that far North this time of year it would be 11:30 to midnight.) What if Kam and Bryer discovered the van parked there and thought; "we're bored, lets stop and check it out." (I still cannot understand anyone thinking that would be a good idea, especially after hours on the road and especially at night but hey, stranger things.) So anyway, they approach the van with one gun, peak inside and realize there are two people inside (or alternatively what if Bryer shoots the back window for fun, just kind of knee jerk, thinking the van is completely empty.) Still awake Lucas and Chynna discover there's creepers outside the van so he gets out to confront them. What if Lucas also had a gun and there was a brief stand off? I mean then take into account there's not the much of an age difference between Lucas, Chynna, Kam and Bryer. But I do think Lucas may have imposed both Kam and Bryer. I have to wonder if Lucas threatened Kam or gave Bryer the impression he was going to hurt Kam (Thelma and Louise style) and shot Lucas with Lucas having absolutely no intention of shooting either Kam nor Bryer. Rather, he just wanted to put a little scare into them. I mean if I was 23 again and an 18 and 19 year old were trying to screw with us I would want to scare them too. Bryer panicked and pulled the trigger without even thinking. What if Bryer fired once, missed, hit the the back window, then got scared and fired again striking Lucas. Chynna meanwhile, is putting her shoes on, hears the gun shot(s), window breaking and leaps out of the van with one shoe on and attempts to make a run for it. Realizing they can't leave a witness, Kam and Bryer shoot her as well. Could this be where the second gun came from? I mean yes, it's entirely possible the boys got one gun, they could certainly have brought/bought a second. But what if one of the guns was Lucas' and he and Chynna had brought it along for protection while traveling that kind of country. Then Kam and Bryer stole it and took it with them? I don't think that's outside the realm of possibilities. I imagine it would have been illegal for Lucas to possess a firearm in Canada but that doesn't mean someone couldn't have lent him one before he set out on their trip. In other words, better to have one and not need it, then not have one and wish you had it. I remember when we were younger, Dad always brought a gun with when we went camping in the Northwoods of Wisconsin.
~All speculation and opinion of course but it's been a few days since I posted another theory.

 

[raffielle]

I recall seeing the photo of the broken window, but I couldn’t tell from which way it had been broken.

I studied it closely and to me it looked like it was broken from the outside. There was no glass fragments on the bumper or ground - Granted the police could've cleaned it up but I doubt it b/c this was the photos with the bodies in it so I would imagine they would've removed/covered the bodies before cleaning up the glass. Just my take.

 

[Snoop Sister]

DBM

 

[Snoop Sister]

I studied it closely and to me it looked like it was broken from the outside. There was no glass fragments on the bumper or ground - Granted the police could've cleaned it up but I doubt it b/c this was the photos with the bodies in it so I would imagine they would've removed/covered the bodies before cleaning up the glass. Just my take.

Yes in the earliest pics posted there were glass fragments on the ground.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

About the back window. Was it confirmed 100% that it was a bullet that smashed out the back window? Is it possible that maybe if Kam and Bryer showed up with guns for whatever reason. Maybe one took one side of the van and the other on the otherside. Could someone in the van, break the window to try and get out? Because if they were killed outside the van, maybe the two boys never physically gotten into the van.

 

[Jan424]

One of the sad parts is that their friendship could have been used as a force of good instead, and helped them to become better people. I don't think they even realized how lucky they were to have such a close, "ride or die" friendship. Some people never have one. And especially to have one that lasts 14 years is very rare.

SBM
Yes! Wish I could “like” this post 100 times.

 

[MistyWaters]

About the back window. Was it confirmed 100% that it was a bullet that smashed out the back window? Is it possible that maybe if Kam and Bryer showed up with guns for whatever reason. Maybe one took one side of the van and the other on the otherside. Could someone in the van, break the window to try and get out? Because if they were killed outside the van, maybe the two boys never physically gotten into the van.

Vehicle registration, insurance, Lucas's passport, both Drivers Licences, any debit and credit cards for each, possibly cellphones, anything else bearing their names - are all forms of identification that would’ve assisted in identifying the victims. At least one of the two must’ve searched the van. Nothing more has ever been released, if other items were missing.

BBM

“Deese’s father, Dwayne Deese, later told The Charlotte Observer he believed the amount of time it took to identify the bodies of his daughter and her boyfriend spoke to the violent end they met. He said this also led him to believe all forms of identification immediately accessible were taken, the newspaper reported.

Investigators eventually found Chynna’s passport hidden in the van, said her brother, British Deese....”
What to Know About the Canada Highway Murders of Chynna Deese, Lucas Fowler and Leonard Dyck

 

[Pyecraft]

with a non disclosure agreement can he even speak to a mental health professional about it if he needed to?

Is it legally enforceable anyway against someone with a mental disorder? My previous posts regarding the self-pitying, child-neglecting, wife-bullying AS have been removed so I'll resist.

but.... for once, he is an interesting case.

If, as I suspect, his 'who give 'em the guns?' outburst is a response to what he's learned from the '30-second-long suicide clip', then he is betraying his nda. But if the rcmp makes this public, then they are admitting truth to his comment.

Alternatively of course, rcmp must allow him ramble on, dismissing it as witness unreliability. They wouldn't be wrong. Rcmp weren't at all interested in AS until he volunteered his woes to Global TV, and hence the watching world. He's resurfaced when I'd believed they had him under lock and key in some capacity - (check out the neutral viewing venue choice for the video watch).

So, who dug him out again? Global TV, is who. The interview, on Burnaby side street, looked like he'd been ambushed. For what its worth, and I'll wash my keyboard after typing, I thought the mad bugger handled it ok.

Yet, to paraphrase Huxley, perhaps when you 'shall know the truth, it will make you mad'.

 

[Runningforthewind]

I've taken a day and read through the multiple forums again. Again I'm still convinced that these two boys, teens, men, or whatever you want to define them as, that they are innocent. I get that Bryer had a tough upbringing, and can believe he may have had enough, had a psychotic break, was suicidal, but what about Kam? There is zero motive, zero information given that would make sense for a boy who was described as kind, considerate, and cared about other's feelings would go on a road trip, and kill three innocent people. I don't get it.

The only other theory I can think of and even then it's out there at least to me is, that may be on the way from Whitehorse, to Alberta Kam accidently ran into Mr.Dyck on the side of the road. Maybe he was tired, dozed off and hit him, turned his head for a second and didn't see him, or whatever the reason and it was an accident. Their truck could have had problems, they panicked when they realized he was dead and made a rash decision to ditch in his car to go get help. Maybe in the meantime, their truck caught fire, and they found it out on the news, and panicked some more and decided to flee because they were scared. But I'm 100% convinced they didn't kill Chynna or Lucas. I can't think of any theory, or reason, where they would be responsible, because it doesn't make sense.

 

[NJSleuth91]

There is zero motive, zero information given that would make sense for a boy who was described as kind, considerate, and cared about other's feelings would go on a road trip, and kill three innocent people. I don't get it.

I have some ideas on Kam's motive but they're highly speculative...people tell me they think I'm on the right track though.

It wouldn't be the first time in history that a kind and considerate person snapped....And as I've said, he was best friends with Bryer for 14 years, so chances are they could relate to each other on a lot of things.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Isn’t AS holding responsible for the murders whoever it was that provided the guns to B&K?

But I think we know we can’t go there. It’s begins the never ending debate of whether guns kill, or people kill.

ETA AS, from the video - “You wanna lay blame? Find out where those guns come from.”

Yes, it's an interesting quote from him isn't it? Very hard to say if he's meaning that in a personal sense or generic statement about gun control in general.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yes, it's an interesting quote from him isn't it? Very hard to say if he's meaning that in a personal sense or generic statement about gun control in general.

I think we can get a sense of his overall opinions on these larger issues from his various interviews, and I think that's definitely informing his opinions on this particular case. As I said yesterday it sounds like he wants there to be some meaning in all this, in terms of enacting some change to prevent the next one. I wouldn't read too much into it like if it had anything to do with the content of the goodbye video. I mean, how much discussion have we had on here on where the guns may have come from? He's wondering all the same things that we have.

 

[Runningforthewind]

I have some ideas on Kam's motive but they're highly speculative...people tell me they think I'm on the right track though.

I'm curious, what possible motive there is? Because so far none of this adds up.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think we can get a sense of his overall opinions on these larger issues from his various interviews, and I think that's definitely informing his opinions on this particular case. As I said yesterday it sounds like he wants there to be some meaning in all this, in terms of enacting some change to prevent the next one. I wouldn't read too much into it like if it had anything to do with the content of the goodbye video. I mean, how much discussion have we had on here on where the guns may have come from? He's wondering all the same things that we have.

I didn't think it had to do with a goodbye video, not sure where that came from.

It's a pinpointed statement that I find interesting. It's not about where they got the guns but what AL is thinking in regards to them. Makes me wonder if he thinks if Bryer had no access to guns, no violence would've happened from his son in his life. Or it could be eluding to gun laws.

IIRC, AS mentioned how the system failed his son as well. If Bryer did need help, would he have accepted it if given? For some reason, I'm thinking not sadly.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I'm curious, what possible motive there is? Because so far none of this adds up.

Well, the tl;dr of it is that I think he got frustrated at always being the happy, funny, cheerful one and felt overlooked and unappreciated (especially if he was being bullied too) and got resentful about it. When kind people snap it's usually for that sort of reason.

I think he was the leader based on a lot of evidence I've mentioned before. He was driving -- Bryer literally could not go anywhere without him, and that is symbolically significant. The truck, money and other resources came from his family. He historically had the power in the relationship due to having more social and economic capital -- Bryer went to his house and never the other way around, etc. He did most of the talking when they interacted with people. With Tommy Ste-Croix, Kam gave his name first and shook his hand first and then Bryer followed his lead. Even Tommy Ste-Croix speculated Kam was probably the leader.

In the surveillance footage Kam looks determined and is wearing a normal outfit -- like the normal person nobody would have suspected! -- while Bryer is sort of drifting along behind him looking a bit spaced out and wearing a militia-looking outfit. I think their outfits had symbolic significance and it was meant to signify that Kam was the outwardly normal one and Bryer was his "soldier" or "mercenary." Which is very common in killer duos -- an outwardly more normative and charismatic leader and an outwardly more disturbed and odd follower. Kam was socially savvy -- he knew what it looked like, and he wouldn't have let Bryer wear that outfit if he didn't approve of the message it was sending. The revelation that multiple videos were recorded during their journey, indicates to me that they were much more self-aware about the whole thing, than I think a lot of us originally thought. (And, obviously IDK if they did any research, but if it was planned, I've heard that many young people who go on killing sprees, research previous killings before doing so.)

So basically I think due to feeling unappreciated, he went on a bit of a power trip, like "I can't control anyone or anything else in my life, but I can control Bryer, and I can exert power over hapless strangers." I still go back and forth on whether these murders were planned, or if it was just a plan to cause general mayhem but not necessarily ending in murder, or what. But either way, I think that was his overall mindstate, whether he was consciously aware of it or not (I get the sense neither of these guys were particularly attuned to their own inner emotional worlds.)

There's a lot more to my reasoning but a lot of it is probably too speculative for here and some of it is based off of evidence not substantiated by MSM.

It's a pinpointed statement that I find interesting. It's not about where they got the guns but what AL is thinking in regards to them. Makes me wonder if he thinks if Bryer had no access to guns, no violence would've happened from his son in his life. Or it could be eluding to gun laws.

It definitely sounds like that is something he is thinking about in regards to the guns, yes. I wondered if he saw or heard, after the murders, about the picture of Bryer with the Airsoft gun in his mouth, which was apparently posted on Instagram for who knows how long before the killings and never taken down or intervened on -- possibly even weeks or months. If he had I can definitely see how that would inform his line of thinking.

IIRC, AS mentioned how the system failed his son as well. If Bryer did need help, would he have accepted it if given? For some reason, I'm thinking not sadly.

None of us will ever know the answer to that. But a teenager doesn't post a picture with a gun in their mouth on social media if, on some level, they don't want to be helped. A lot of these teen killers drop many hints beforehand, almost as if they want someone to stop them.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

IIRC, AS mentioned how the system failed his son as well. If Bryer did need help, would he have accepted it if given? For some reason, I'm thinking not sadly.

I do think his issues went back many years. When he was an early teen, he wouldn't have had much of a choice, and could have started counselling, seek mental health services and gotten the help he needed.