Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[Runningforthewind]

I think he was the leader based on a lot of evidence I’ve mentioned before. He was driving -- Bryer literally could not go anywhere without him, and that is symbolically significant. The truck, money and other resources came from his family.

They both had jobs at Walmart, both likely saved up money, and both likely split the costs to go on this trip. It just happened Kam had a license and a vehicle. Also, Kam and Bryer were close friends, went to school together, got jobs together, so going on a trip together isn’t a stretch. I can’t see Kam wanting to go travel by himself.

He did most of the talking when they interacted with people. With Tommy Ste-Croix, Kam gave his name first and shook his hand first and then Bryer followed his lead. Even Tommy Ste-Croix speculated Kam was probably the leader.

Tommy likely went to the driver’s side door and spoke with Kam and it has alluded at that Kam was more outgoing than Bryer. So how does that turn into someone being a leader in a plan to kill three innocent people?

In the surveillance footage Kam looks determined and is wearing a normal outfit -- like the normal person nobody would have suspected! -- while Bryer is sort of drifting along behind him looking a bit spaced out and wearing a militia-looking outfit. I think their outfits had symbolic significance and it was meant to signify that Kam was the outwardly normal one and Bryer was his “soldier” or “mercenary.”

I don’t know, this is a huge stretch, I’m sorry. Why does their clothing symbol anything? Bryer is into military stuff, and Kam wore a t-shirt and jeans like 90% of other teens.

Kam was socially savvy -- he knew what it looked like, and he wouldn’t have let Bryer wear that outfit if he didn’t approve of the message it was sending. The revelation that multiple videos were recorded during their journey, indicates to me that they were much more self-aware about the whole thing, than I think a lot of us originally thought.

He wouldn’t let Bryer, who is an adult wear whatever he wanted? Kam wasn’t Bryer’s father and I highly doubt he gave two what his best friend wore out in public.

So basically I think due to feeling unappreciated, he went on a bit of a power trip, like “I can’t control anyone or anything else in my life, but I can control Bryer, and I can exert power over hapless strangers.”

I don’t know. Even you said he had a vehicle, money, and came from a family with resources. Why would he feel the need to control anyone? This makes little sense. If he was feeling unappreciated or used, then end the friendship. That is such a huge leap if there was ever one.

None of us will ever know the answer to that. But a teenager doesn’t post a picture with a gun in their mouth on social media if, on some level, they don’t want to be helped. A lot of these teen killers drop many hints beforehand, almost as if they want someone to stop them.

I agree with you on this. Bryer likely had some unresolved mental health issues, and by the sound of it didn’t get the mental health help he needed.


I don’t agree with your theory, but I say it is interesting. It sounds like you put some serious thought into it and it wasn’t just thrown together. So I’ll give you that.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I don’t agree with your theory, but I say it is interesting. It sounds like you put some serious thought into it and it wasn’t just thrown together. So I’ll give you that.

SBM

Well, you asked what his potential motive might be if they did do this. I gave you my theory on that. Obviously it's up to you to decide if you agree with it or not, and it sounds like you're pretty convinced they didn't do this and are approaching the theory from that perspective. Of course, it goes without saying that neither of us know what the real story is -- this is all conjecture at this point based on the evidence we have available.

But all I'm saying is that if they did do this -- which, at this point, I believe the most parsimonious explanation is that they did -- this is my best guess as to what Kam's motive might have been. I'm definitely not saying I'm right -- that would be arrogant and presumptuous of me! (Although, it turns out I was right on several other things that were confirmed in yesterday's interview, like Bryer having not actually graduated and had an educational setback shortly before the trip, so...I do feel a bit more confident in the rest of it now.)

 

[CanadianSleuther]

I don’t agree with your theory, but I say it is interesting. It sounds like you put some serious thought into it and it wasn’t just thrown together. So I’ll give you that.

Assuming they are responsible, I think her assessment is 100% bang on. <modsnip> For someone who is not suspected of three murders, a road trip between two friends, what each of them wore, and who did the talking wouldn't be abnormal. But the fact is these two teens are accused of murdering three people, and we are trying to find a reason or motive on why two teens would go to those lengths.

 

[Satchie]

I'm curious, what possible motive there is? Because so far none of this adds up.

I think the murder of Lucas and Chynna was likely what is called a 'thrill kill'.

There have been pointless murders by pairs of very close young men where, in retrospect, one appears to have been a psychopath and the other a devoted admirer, who egg each other on where they might not kill on their own.. They turn to crime because they like to imagine they can live outside social rules, and because it makes them feel powerful. The famous case was Leopold and Loeb: They also were 18 and 19 years old. They kidnapped and murdered a boy just to prove their perceived superiority by committing the perfect crime. Eric Harris and Dylan Krebold, the Columbine shooters. were 17 and 18, Harris has been labelled a psychopath who was contemptuous of everyone else and wanted to prove his superiority by blowing up the whole school (but failed). Dellen Millard and Mark Smich appear to have had a similar dynamic, I think, where Millard was supremely arrogant and Smich was his admiring sidekick.

 

[zinny77]

Dellen Millard and Mark Smich appear to have had a similar dynamic, I think, where Millard was supremely arrogant and Smich was his admiring sidekick.

But appart from a few anecdotes (that I personality think have been blown out of proportion or taken out of context), Bryer was described as nice, soft spoken, helpful. Kam was described as kind, funny and considerate. Which one is the arrogant psychopath and which one is the admiring sidekick?

Saying it was one of them and he just hid it seems like far stretched to me. Especially since the crimes don't really fit that theory. Why go that far to prove you can kill someone.

 

[Runningforthewind]

There have been pointless murders by pairs of very close young men where, in retrospect, one appears to have been a psychopath and the other a devoted admirer, who egg each other on where they might not kill on their own.

Neither Kam or Bryer has characteristics of being a psychopath.

 

[katydid23]

I've taken a day and read through the multiple forums again. Again I'm still convinced that these two boys, teens, men, or whatever you want to define them as, that they are innocent. I get that Bryer had a tough upbringing, and can believe he may have had enough, had a psychotic break, was suicidal, but what about Kam? There is zero motive, zero information given that would make sense for a boy who was described as kind, considerate, and cared about other's feelings would go on a road trip, and kill three innocent people. I don't get it.

The only other theory I can think of and even then it's out there at least to me is, that may be on the way from Whitehorse, to Alberta Kam accidently ran into Mr.Dyck on the side of the road. Maybe he was tired, dozed off and hit him, turned his head for a second and didn't see him, or whatever the reason and it was an accident. Their truck could have had problems, they panicked when they realized he was dead and made a rash decision to ditch in his car to go get help. Maybe in the meantime, their truck caught fire, and they found it out on the news, and panicked some more and decided to flee because they were scared. But I'm 100% convinced they didn't kill Chynna or Lucas. I can't think of any theory, or reason, where they would be responsible, because it doesn't make sense.

If they left video messages for their parents, about what to do with their bodies after their suicides, then I imagine they said a few other important things as well.

If they were innocent of these murders, I am pretty sure they would say so in their final videos to their families.

If they did claim they are innocent, in my opinion, that info would have leaked by now. I don't think any of the family members would keep that secret. JMO

That makes me doubt their innocence. No way they would keep quiet about being falsely accused of murder, in their final words to their families, in my opinion. JMO

 

[Runningforthewind]

If they were innocent of these murders, I am pretty sure they would say so in their final videos to their families.

If they did claim they are innocent, in my opinion, that info would have leaked by now. I don't think any of the family members would keep that secret. JMO

That makes me doubt their innocence. No way they would keep quiet about being falsely accused of murder, in their final words to their families, in my opinion. JMO

The RCMP only showed them a portion of the video. If the police believed they were guilty, and they claim they were innocent, do you think they would show the family that?

 

[katydid23]

Neither Kam or Bryer has characteristics of being a psychopath.

Wearing Nazi patch while pointing a gun into your mouth, isn't a clue to some kind of mental health issue?

 

[katydid23]

The RCMP only showed them a portion of the video. If the police believed they were guilty, and they claim they were innocent, do you think they would show the family that?

I don't know. I do think it would leak out however. JMO

 

[zinny77]

If they did claim they are innocent, in my opinion, that info would have leaked by now. I don't think any of the family members would keep that secret. JMO

That makes me doubt their innocence. No way they would keep quiet about being falsely accused of murder, in their final words to their families, in my opinion. JMO

The families saw 30 seconds of the message. Was it 30 second each or they filmed together? If they didn't speed talk through it, that doesn't leave a lot of time to say more than I love you, I am gonna miss you, please try to be happy, I want to be burried here/be cremated, I leave this to that person. Whatever else they said wasn't shown to the families

 

[zinny77]

I don't know. I do think it would leak out however. JMO

Barely anything leaked, why would that leak? They'd be even more careful to limit the number of people who would know that information since they are avoiding any information getting out there.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The RCMP only showed them a portion of the video. If the police believed they were guilty, and they claim they were innocent, do you think they would show the family that?

so what are you accusing the RCMP of exactly?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Neither Kam or Bryer has characteristics of being a psychopath.

in your opinion? But whoever committed those murders could be described as such, so once the RCMP produce their findings we'll see which way the wind blows.

 

[zinny77]

Wearing Nazi patch while pointing a gun into your mouth, isn't a clue to some kind of mental health issue?

It could be explained many ways. But it doesn't say anything about heing a psychopath

 

[zinny77]

so what are you accusing the RCMP of exactly?

Probably just accusing them of investigating what was in those videos without telling the families. Whatever it was, the families don't know so you can't say they claim their innocence/admit they are guilty just because the families haven't leaked anything.

 

[Runningforthewind]

so what are you accusing the RCMP of exactly?

Nothing. I'm just saying that I don't think the RCMP in a middle of an investigation would show the family members of the accused a video where they are claiming they are innocent, especially when one of the fathers of the accused is all over the news.

 

[katydid23]

It could be explained many ways. But it doesn't say anything about heing a psychopath

I think there are a lot of things that point to Bryer possibly having mental health issues, that may have helped create this crisis situation.

I don't know if he was a psychopath, but quite possibly a sociopath, and/or bi-polar, much like his father was diagnosed with. JMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

If they left video messages for their parents, about what to do with their bodies after their suicides, then I imagine they said a few other important things as well.

If they were innocent of these murders, I am pretty sure they would say so in their final videos to their families.

If they did claim they are innocent, in my opinion, that info would have leaked by now. I don't think any of the family members would keep that secret. JMO

That makes me doubt their innocence. No way they would keep quiet about being falsely accused of murder, in their final words to their families, in my opinion. JMO

I agree, Kam's family would certainly be more vocal. Bryer's dad seems to be making excuses for his son, not declaring that he's innocent.

 

[Runningforthewind]

Wearing Nazi patch while pointing a gun into your mouth, isn't a clue to some kind of mental health issue?

Of course, it likely signifies someone with a mental illness. It's evident since both boys are deceased by suicide.