Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[Grouper]

I hadn’t noticed anyone salivating over the concept these two (who are not exactly boys) are the embodiment of True Evil.

However people do commit evil acts and later turn their life around. In Canada our criminal justice system is based on rehabilitation as opposed to punishment, much different than in the US.

But I think we’re forgetting there were three innocent strangers who needlessly had their lives taken from them and this isn’t just a missing persons story which resulted in suicide. My empathetic thoughts are with the families of the three victims, not with the accused who made the choice not to defend themselves.

Sad if you think prison in Canada, or anywhere, has anything to do with rehabilitation. It’s about containment. The illusion of a hardened criminal coming out “reformed” is created by those institutions. If anything, people who come out of the prison system are much worse off than when they came in.

My thoughts are with everyone involved in this case. I’m not discriminating against who deserves my empathy. No one came out of this alright.

Of course Lucas, Chynna, and Leonard were beautiful humans whose lives were cut short and it’s painful. It’s sad.

I’m here saying these things because people forget that the world isn’t cut into neat little pieces. We don’t fix criminal behaviour with incarceration. People do horrible things and can still be viewed with humanity and empathy. And no matter what you might believe, you just don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to this case.

None of us do.

Anyway, @MistyWaters, this will be my last response to you. I’m getting too aggravated by this discussion and again, don’t want to see this thread shut down.

 

[sandbar]

The reason I don’t think anything regarding the video will be included in the final investigation, even if they did confess, is because it gives the impression it was by sheer luck the RCMP initially identified the two as armed and dangerous suspects and embarked on a huge manhunt and by gosh, see what they said in the video, police were right.

Can you please explain this paragraph and the underlined part particularly? I don't follow.

 

[missy1974]

Just popped up on my FB timeline... new interview with AS... he says this was preventable... again says his kid didn't drive, didn't have a gun, didn't whatever. He is totally frustrated with the RCMP. He is frustrated that they didn't get in touch with him until a week later, he is frustrated that they didn't track them with the cell phone that Bryer had... frustrated that there isn't more info yet. In the written article it mentions that 60 minutes Australia provided him with a counsellor, which I thought was interesting. I am still listening to the interview.. it's almost 8 minutes long.

‘This is all preventable’: Father of B.C. murder suspect questions RCMP role in manhunt

 

[Runningforthewind]

‘This is all preventable’: Father of B.C. murder suspect questions RCMP role in manhunt

He's really not doing his son any favours. I understand he is frustrated and I get that he misses his son, but he's just making the image people view his son as, as worse then it actually is. Still, the RCMP hasn't said either way that his son is 100% responsible.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

‘This is all preventable’: Father of B.C. murder suspect questions RCMP role in manhunt

This interview just makes me sad. It does give us a clearer picture of Bryer. It's sad that he wanted to join the army and that he struggled in school. I see a broken man who is thinking about what he could have done better. I do see a man who genuinely loves his son and his heartbroken.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Wow. He is DONE with everyone's crap. And I don't blame him. I still don't understand why people keep vilifying Bryer's dad. I just see someone being real af and that's what I've always seen.

Schmelgelsky describes his son as a troubled young man who endured a difficult childhood and was bullied in his special education school.

“He wanted a way out of Port Alberni so badly,” Schmegelsky said.

Not surprised at all. I always thought that was the case.

Schmegelsky says RCMP never asked him about Bryer’s cellphone — a pay-as-you go Samsung device that he bought for his son — which Bryer used only for text messaging while connected to WiFi.

“He didn’t pay into it, so the number was disconnected. But any phone is active to 911. And if it’s active to 911, it still can be tracked.

“How come they weren’t tracking the phone? How come they didn’t talk to me? Maybe I could’ve helped them, if they would have admitted that I exist.”

Wow. If that's actually the case...(still, I think Kam probably had a phone).

 

[Grouper]

Just popped up on my FB timeline... new interview with AS... he says this was preventable... again says his kid didn't drive, didn't have a gun, didn't whatever. He is totally frustrated with the RCMP. He is frustrated that they didn't get in touch with him until a week later, he is frustrated that they didn't track them with the cell phone that Bryer had... frustrated that there isn't more info yet. In the written article it mentions that 60 minutes Australia provided him with a counsellor, which I thought was interesting. I am still listening to the interview.. it's almost 8 minutes long.

‘This is all preventable’: Father of B.C. murder suspect questions RCMP role in manhunt

wow. That was very sad to watch. While I'm glad to be getting an 'update' of sorts here, in the form of someone connected to Bryer speaking out... I also don't think Al should be talking to the media. Obviously they will flock to him because he gives them "juicy content", but it's not helping his mental state, which is clearly in shambles.

Like someone else said, he's not helping himself and he's not helping the memory of his son. He's clearly suffering from mental illness, he's incoherent, his heartbroken. Even someone from the best walks of life is not going to be saying the right things in that situation. Sounds to me like he has no one to guide him through the process (in spite of an apparent grief counsellor). And he definitely is not able to guide himself. He's saying things that will inevitably just make people get more and more angry.

But, he also makes interesting points. In particular: were the RCMP tracking Bryer's phone? Or did he ditch it somewhere early on, while fleeing to Manitoba?

 

[NJSleuth91]

Also confirmed that Bryer didn't graduate..."he was working on his GED because he dropped out of school." @Zella You called it!

BTW I think this is a longer version of the interview (had to switch over to Youtube because the one on the news page stopped loading)

 

[cartman]

Like many aspects of this case I waffle back and forth on AS. I feel badly for him because the media has taken advantage of him but I also feel he is using the media to make sure he isn’t left out of the loop about his only child.

Is 60 Minutes still providing counselling for AS? What about his lawyer’s comment that he was “marginally housed”?

 

[Runningforthewind]

All AS latest interview tells me is that he is frustrated and just wants to put this thing behind him. Maybe he is interviewing in hopes the RCMP gives him the information he wants. Since the police hadn’t had an update why is he talking like his son is 100% guilty? All this interview is doing is painting these two teens as guilty with no evidence to the contrary. He said Bryer wanted to get out of Port Alberni. How does that translate to murder? He and Kam both left Port Alberni, with a supposed plan. Maybe he didn’t know his son and he thought he did. I think he needs to stand back from the media.

 

[Esprite]

Just popped up on my FB timeline... new interview with AS... he says this was preventable... again says his kid didn't drive, didn't have a gun, didn't whatever. He is totally frustrated with the RCMP. He is frustrated that they didn't get in touch with him until a week later, he is frustrated that they didn't track them with the cell phone that Bryer had... frustrated that there isn't more info yet. In the written article it mentions that 60 minutes Australia provided him with a counsellor, which I thought was interesting. I am still listening to the interview.. it's almost 8 minutes long.

‘This is all preventable’: Father of B.C. murder suspect questions RCMP role in manhunt

So now Al's living in his van down by the river? There is help, including psychological, available from victim services, but he must first accept the process. Wondering what his lawyer thinks of this latest interview; she must be wringing her hands by now.

 

[NJSleuth91]

wow. That was very sad to watch. While I'm glad to be getting an 'update' of sorts here, in the form of someone connected to Bryer speaking out... I also don't think Al should be talking to the media. Obviously they will flock to him because he gives them "juicy content", but it's not helping his mental state, which is clearly in shambles.

Like someone else said, he's not helping himself and he's not helping the memory of his son. He's clearly suffering from mental illness, he's incoherent, his heartbroken. Even someone from the best walks of life is not going to be saying the right things in that situation. Sounds to me like he has no one to guide him through the process (in spite of an apparent grief counsellor). And he definitely is not able to guide himself. He's saying things that will inevitably just make people get more and more angry.

I disagree. I think this is brutally honest. I don't think it sounds unhinged or incoherent at all. I think this is exactly the type of thing we need to be thinking about with this case. The stuff he's talking about, the red flags leading up to this that were ignored, is a lot of the same stuff that we have been talking about on here. Yes, Bryer's dad is yelling and getting angry, but anyone would in his situation. People need to hear this.

Bryer was hurt a lot in his life -- including the revelation that he was bullied in school and probably turned to this militia stuff to try to feel more powerful -- and he lashed out and hurt other people. That's exactly what a lot of us have been saying this whole time. My guess is, Kam was probably bullied too -- I've strongly suspected it the entire time and have even said so on here before. That's probably why they were so co-dependent on each other.

But, he also makes interesting points. In particular: were the RCMP tracking Bryer's phone? Or did he ditch it somewhere early on, while fleeing to Manitoba?

It sounds like the goodbye video was recorded on Bryer's phone, from what he said.

If they didn't track it while it could have been tracked though...I have no words. I hope that Bryer's dad turns out to be wrong about that.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Since the police hadn’t had an update why is he talking like his son is 100% guilty? All this interview is doing is painting these two teens as guilty with no evidence to the contrary. He said Bryer wanted to get out of Port Alberni. How does that translate to murder?

SBM

He's seen the goodbye video between this interview and the last one. Last interview he was saying "I won't say my son is guilty until I see proof." This interview he's saying "Bryer lost hope in life. I don't want anyone else's kid to feel that that's their only option." You do the math.

 

[Zella]

Also confirmed that Bryer didn't graduate..."he was working on his GED because he dropped out of school." @Zella You called it!

BTW I think this is a longer version of the interview (had to switch over to Youtube because the one on the news page stopped loading)

I knew it!

Have not watched the interview yet, but I think this info on the phone explains why Bryer's dad's message was never delivered--his time on the phone ran out. I wonder if Bryer contacted his grandma on Kam's phone. MOO

 

[Zella]

Also, it looks like RCMP never even interviewed Alan until a week after the bodies were found? That's mid-August. . . .

 

[Grouper]

I disagree. I think this is brutally honest. I don't think it sounds unhinged or incoherent at all. I think this is exactly the type of thing we need to be thinking about with this case. The stuff he's talking about, the red flags leading up to this that were ignored, is a lot of the same stuff that we have been talking about on here. Yes, Bryer's dad is yelling and getting angry, but anyone would in his situation. People need to hear this.

Bryer was hurt a lot in his life -- including the revelation that he was bullied in school and probably turned to this militia stuff to try to feel more powerful -- and he lashed out and hurt other people. That's exactly what a lot of us have been saying this whole time. My guess is, Kam was probably bullied too -- I've strongly suspected it the entire time and have even said so on here before. That's probably why they were so co-dependent on each other.




It sounds like the goodbye video was recorded on Bryer's phone, from what he said.

If they didn't track it while it could have been tracked though...I have no words. I hope that Bryer's dad turns out to be wrong about that.

I guess the incoherence to me comes from his contradictions. Namely, he was the one who first mentioned his son had an interest in Nazism, and now he is saying he never heard Bryer talking about that. I’m typing this on the run as well so not very well-thought-out.

His speech doesn’t seem very connected, his own thoughts are all over the place, he breaks down crying. It’s hard to watch.

I agree that he asks some pertinent questions. I also believe he’s a man with literally nothing left to lose now, so he doesn’t care about what he says (but he’s still honouring that NDA! Which is a smart move on his part in many ways)

 

[Grouper]

SBM

He's seen the goodbye video between this interview and the last one. Last interview he was saying "I won't say my son is guilty until I see proof." This interview he's saying "Bryer lost hope in life. I don't want anyone else's kid to feel that that's their only option." You do the math.

To play devils advocate, he could just be referring to Bryer’s suicide. But I can’t speak to that with much confidence.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I guess the incoherence to me comes from his contradictions. Namely, he was the one who first mentioned his son had an interest in Nazism, and now he is saying he never heard Bryer talking about that. I’m typing this on the run as well so not very well-thought-out.

His speech doesn’t seem very connected, his own thoughts are all over the place, he breaks down crying. It’s hard to watch.

I agree that he asks some pertinent questions.

I mean, he's a grieving parent. I'm going to give him license to contradict himself and go all over the place a bit.

I think what he meant is he never heard Bryer "speaking of politics" or talking about any ideology in a serious way. All he said to his dad about Nazism is that he thought it was interesting from a historical perspective.

I've been saying for a long time that Bryer's interest in militias and totalitarian regimes came from a place of wanting structure and belonging in his life. And that his interest in forming a militia was some sort of metaphor for wanting trusted friends to hide out from and fight against the world with, after he probably felt the entire world had failed him. With the revelation that he was bullied at VAST, that seems to point to that even more. It's all playing out exactly as I suspected.

I also believe he’s a man with literally nothing left to lose now, so he doesn’t care about what he says (but he’s still honouring that NDA! Which is a smart move on his part in many ways)

<modsnip>

 

[missy1974]

Also, it looks like RCMP never even interviewed Alan until a week after the bodies were found? That's mid-August. . . .

I thought he meant a week after they went missing or were suspects?

It seemed to me that AS was saying in a roundabout way that Kam was to blame for this... anyone else get that impression? I think AS is just not feeling heard at all and will speak to anyone that will listen, which happens to be the media. It was mentioned that victim services may be able to help, but do they help the families of the accused? I'm not sure if they do?

 

[sandbar]

“It wasn’t until a week later that RCMP actually came and talked to me. Why? When I was the only one that loved my son.”

I read this as a week after K&B were declared missing/suspects.