Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[LoisLane]

Yep, even the RCMP could have added minutes to his phone... a family member, any family member...

Maybe because the animosity between his parents was so out of hand he had a Dad phone and a Mom phone. Compartmentalizing his communications and relationships.

 

[Grouper]

Yeah that's what I thought. If they lived in PA their whole life I was expecting some concern and public posts being shared to find them when they were missing, as that's what usually happens on FB. Those posts usually spread like wildfire!

I see my friends all the time sharing missing people posts for all kids of people, all ages from different locations, just trying to help spread the word and get the faces out there for the public to see!

I think it was as simple as the short window between them missing and labeled suspects, coupled with the fact that no one really knew where they were or last seen, and the fact that most young people either don’t use FB or have their privacy settings locked down, would account for the social media “silence”.

I wouldn’t read too far into it.

 

[LoisLane]

Anyway, back on topic:

I wonder if the question of tracking their phones is irrelevant? They were named missing two days before they were in Gillam. Perhaps LE were still putting together evidence. Perhaps it takes longer than we think to put a trace on the phone?

If it were as simple as tracing a signal, and a signal was available, they wouldn’t have brought in the army to look for them. Not sure if this is a redundant fact but anyway. I’m sure RCMP would have thought of that (if we did, they did).

The pace at which they moved was excessively speedy, leaving not much time for action on the part of RCMP while they were on the move.

I don’t know how these things work (and am admittedly too tired to think at this time)

Maybe they did manage a trace by the time they got to the COOP in Meadow Lake and that helped solidify a timeline of sorts.

 

[LoisLane]

I really don't know. And I'm in southern Saskatchewan and when you get outside of the cities, depending on which provider you use, coverage can be terrible. They drove through Northern Saskatchewan, which is probably worse. Places like Meadow Lake where they were spotted at the Co-Op, I would guess it might ping if it was on and he used the phone, but still unsure.

Probably better luck at the COOP if they were trying to access anything online. Even in big cities service can be spotty. I have terrible cell/wifi service in all Walmart’s.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yep, even the RCMP could have added minutes to his phone... a family member, any family member...

However if the cellphone owner has no reason to believe their cellphone was active, I’d wonder why would the cellular tab on the cellphone be turned on? And AS didn’t actually say B ran out of minutes on a pay-as-you go plan. IIRC he said Bs cellphone plan was cutoff because he didn’t keep up the payment therefore he only was able to use his cellphone if it was connected to wifi.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I only mentioned this because losing hope and having a future plan seems contradictory.

SBM

It doesn't seem contradictory to me at all. For example, suicidal people often make plans for the future even leading right up to their suicide. Losing hope is not a linear thing. Sometimes people get more hopeful and other times they get less hopeful, and it can happen very fast, even in a matter of hours or minutes.

Plus, there is reason to believe his plan wasn't working out. His dad said he was struggling to get the GED for a while, and started working at Walmart instead, which indicates he gave up (and haven't I been predicting this entire time that something like that happened, that his education didn't work out as planned and he lost hope with that?) And let's be real...is there a single person here who thinks the military would have accepted Bryer? I sincerely hope not!!

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe they did manage a trace by the time they got to the COOP in Meadow Lake and that helped solidify a timeline of sorts.

I wonder if L&C or LDs cellphone was taken.

 

[MistyWaters]

SBM

It doesn't seem contradictory to me at all. For example, suicidal people often make plans for the future even leading right up to their suicide. Losing hope is not a linear thing. Sometimes people get more hopeful and other times they get less hopeful, and it can happen very fast, even in a matter of hours or minutes.

Plus, there is reason to believe his plan wasn't working out. His dad said he was struggling to get the GED for a while, and started working at Walmart instead, which indicates he gave up (and haven't I been predicting this entire time that something like that happened, that his education didn't work out as planned and he lost hope with that?) And let's be real...is there a single person here who thinks the military would have accepted Bryer? I sincerely hope not!!

Yes but this isn’t just a case of suicide. People with suicidal thoughts rarely feel compelled to murder strangers.

I also don’t think AS was referring to “no hope” in the context of suicide.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yes but this isn’t just a case of suicide. People with suicidal thoughts rarely feel compelled to murder strangers.

Same thing goes for homicide in many cases. Eric Harris applied to and was rejected by the military the week before Columbine. Clearly at least part of him was making other plans besides the school shooting. And we know Columbine was planned for a long time. We don't even know if Kam and Bryer's murders were planned or not. The point is that losing hope is not a linear thing, but there's evidence to indicate that Bryer likely lost more hope than previously in the weeks leading up to the spree.

 

[MistyWaters]

Same thing goes for homicide in many cases. Eric Harris applied to and was rejected by the military the week before Columbine. Clearly at least part of him was making other plans besides the school shooting. And we know Columbine was planned for a long time. We don't even know if Kam and Bryer's murders were planned or not. The point is that losing hope is not a linear thing, but there's evidence to indicate that Bryer likely lost more hope than previously in the weeks leading up to the spree.

AS didn’t expand on why B had “no hope”, which was my point. Beyond that it’s just not possible for us to fill in the blanks.

 

[LoisLane]

Watching the videos again (there are 2 with Global), and a couple things I didn’t catch earlier - the shorter version AS states that BS had 4 very close friends. In the extended version AS has an interesting response/theory to the reporters suggestion that 4 young people such as the suspects and CD, LF could have shared a beer together.. AS responds along the lines that BS and KM could have stopped to help them out and socialized, that the answers to what happened are connected to where the guns came from. The reporter did not ask how that lead to LD’s death tho. I wonder what his thoughts are on that.

ETA.. adding link to both videos
‘This is all preventable’: Father of B.C. murder suspect questions RCMP role in manhunt

 

[Zella]

Watching the videos again (there are 2 with Global), and a couple things I didn’t catch earlier - the shorter version AS states that BS had 4 very close friends. In the extended version AS has an interesting response/theory to the reporters suggestion that 4 young people such as the suspects and CD, LF could have shared a beer together.. AS responds along the lines that BS and KM could have stopped to help them out and socialized, that the answers to what happened are connected to where the guns came from. The reporter did not ask how that lead to LD’s death tho. I wonder what his thoughts are on that.

Can you please link me to the shorter one? I've not seen that, am having trouble finding it, and definitely don't remember that detail about 4 friends from the longer one.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Watching the videos again (there are 2 with Global), and a couple things I didn’t catch earlier - the shorter version AS states that BS had 4 very close friends. In the extended version AS has an interesting response/theory to the reporters suggestion that 4 young people such as the suspects and CD, LF could have shared a beer together.. AS responds along the lines that BS and KM could have stopped to help them out and socialized, that the answers to what happened are connected to where the guns came from. The reporter did not ask how that lead to LD’s death tho. I wonder what his thoughts are on that.

Oh I'll have to go watch this! That is my theory too... that there was an interaction between the 4 prior to the crime, possibly a hangout/beer and chatting and then maybe B&K weirded the couple out somehow and were told to maybe buzz off.

Hhhmmm wonder what that is eluding too about the guns though other than maybe from KM's family? Was a PAL forged if guns were purchased in the store in PA like reported? Is it easy to forge a PAL license?

 

[LoisLane]

Can you please link me to the shorter one? I've not seen that, am having trouble finding it, and definitely don't remember that detail about 4 friends from the longer one.

‘This is all preventable’: Father of B.C. murder suspect questions RCMP role in manhunt

The short video is at the top.

 

[MistyWaters]

Oh I'll have to go watch this! That is my theory too... that there was an interaction between the 4 prior to the crime, possibly a hangout/beer and chatting and then maybe B&K weirded the couple out somehow and were told to maybe buzz off.

Hhhmmm wonder what that is eluding too about the guns though other than maybe from KM's family? Was a PAL forged if guns were purchased in the store in PA like reported? Is it easy to forge a PAL license?

Isn’t AS holding responsible for the murders whoever it was that provided the guns to B&K?

But I think we know we can’t go there. It’s begins the never ending debate of whether guns kill, or people kill.

ETA AS, from the video - “You wanna lay blame? Find out where those guns come from.”

 

[Zella]

‘This is all preventable’: Father of B.C. murder suspect questions RCMP role in manhunt

The short video is at the top.

Thank you!

 

[LoisLane]

Oh I'll have to go watch this! That is my theory too... that there was an interaction between the 4 prior to the crime, possibly a hangout/beer and chatting and then maybe B&K weirded the couple out somehow and were told to maybe buzz off.

Hhhmmm wonder what that is eluding too about the guns though other than maybe from KM's family? Was a PAL forged if guns were purchased in the store in PA like reported? Is it easy to forge a PAL license?

At one point of the interview I am sure he is suggesting the guns were sourced through Kam and I’m assuming through KM’s family’s inventory (just a theory, we don’t know if they have guns). But the social setting idea suggested by the reporter made me think that AS thinks the guns appeared out of nowhere.. so either BS was caught off guard (like maybe KM ambushed BS too) but didn’t flinch or someone else showed up to the roadside. He didn’t elaborate.. in the edited video interview so who knows.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Watching the videos again (there are 2 with Global), and a couple things I didn’t catch earlier - the shorter version AS states that BS had 4 very close friends.

Why do these Canadian news sources keep having short and long versions of things with different information? Just put them all in one!

And again, what'd I tell you guys...Kam and Bryer had more friends than the media led the public to believe. It's actually kind of scary how many of my theories this interview confirmed (including stuff that I don't think I can discuss here).

 

[LoisLane]

Why do these Canadian news sources keep having short and long versions of things with different information? Just put them all in one!

And again, what'd I tell you guys...Kam and Bryer had more friends than the media led the public to believe. It's actually kind of scary how many of my theories this interview confirmed (including stuff that I don't think I can discuss here).

The short one is for the tv news segment. They wouldn’t be able to play the extended on the news due to time constraints.

For me it was somewhat of a relief to see this interview. He is trying his best to sort through this all and I dare say it but he seems pretty level headed.

I also really liked how he addressed the Nazi Regalia pointing out that PA has a lot of this stuff around town and that the shop to purchase these items was a block and a half from a special ed school, where the boys went, where other vulnerable children attend (The store is closed now). He is an advocate in a lot of ways. I respect that.

 

[NJSleuth91]

The short one is for the tv news segment. They wouldn’t be able to play the extended on the news due to time constraints.

Yes I understand the need for short and long versions, but the long version should contain all of the material.

I also really liked how he addressed the Nazi Regalia pointing out that PA has a lot of this stuff around town and that the shop to purchase these items was a block and a half from a special ed school, where the boys went, where other vulnerable children attend (The store is closed now). He is an advocate in a lot of ways. I respect that.

He's been an advocate the entire time, IMO. Most people just didn't see it. In fact if he can keep it together I can see him actually getting into that in the future. It seems like he really wants some good to come of this situation, in terms of taking steps to prevent the next one. And his interviews are attention getting for sure -- that's how I got into this case.