Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[Jan424]

Very good point @LoisLane I did factor the Full Moon into this whole thing as well, not to mention the New Moon that fell on the night of July 31st. Admittedly I used the New Moon as a frame of reference when I was trying to figure out when Kam and Bryer actually died. Anyway, the Full Moon was the night of July 16th but the sky would have been especially bright the nights of the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th.

Apologies if I missed this ... did you actually pin down a possible date they died?

 

[Runningforthewind]

“(BC. RCMP Assistant Commissioner Kevin Hackett) did confirm, however, that there is “significant evidence” linking the suspects to both crime scenes.”
B.C. murder suspects Bryer Schmegelsky, Kam McLeod believed to be dead

All that means is that they were there. They could have stopped and asked if they needed help.

 

[LoisLane]

Very good point @LoisLane I did factor the Full Moon into this whole thing as well, not to mention the New Moon that fell on the night of July 31st. Admittedly I used the New Moon as a frame of reference when I was trying to figure out when Kam and Bryer actually died. Anyway, the Full Moon was the night of July 16th but the sky would have been especially bright the nights of the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th.

Oh the darkness in Gillam! I was thinking the night that Chynna and Lucas were killed.

All interesting.

 

[Grouper]

I was definitely asking about the darkness in BC. Because I was wondering how visible Lucas and Chynna would be to their killer(s). How noticeable they could possibly have been in their van, assuming they were asleep inside when their van was first approached.

 

[Grouper]

@SovereignSnake I'm curious what you mean by using the moon to estimate their time of death? Could you explain?

 

[Satchie]

As Canada does not prosecute people postmortem, constitutional rights become a mute point after death. K&B are no longer alive so they cannot face criminal allegations or plead guilty or not guilty nor in their absence, does the general public have the ability to step up for them.

When the RCMPs final report is released it will support why police have no reason to seek to arrest, nor the Crown to prosecute any other suspects who were responsible for the murder of L&C and LD and why . The point of this is to prove why the murder investigation will then be closed because there’s nobody alive who can be prosecuted and police owe this to the families of the three victims.

The media often reports about cases of domestic murder/suicides. This murder case is not that much different in that murder investigation are closed once police are satisfied the killer took his or her own life. That’s the responsibility society expects from police - solving crimes. When there’s nobody to arrest or prosecute, then their task is concluded.

I agree, however I think because of the wide public and international interest, the police will have to present more of their case against the accused than they would in a more 'private' murder- suicide. As well, this case involved an incredibly expensive manhunt, so I think they'll want to demonstrate exactly why they went to those extreme lengths: telling people in the communities to stay indoors, moving huge amounts of equipment and manpower to Northern Manitoba, and refusing to give up until the two were located, was unprecedented. I think police know they have to provide solid evidence, to prevent anyone giving credence to conspiracy theories or allegations that it was all based on a wrong hunch.

 

[katydid23]

JMO: I don’t put much stock into the account from the girl who made the beheading comment.

I’ve seen young kids pushed to do and say all sorts of things because they were being bullied. I’ve watched young children scream at others because they were being attacked.

Not because they loved aggression and striking fear into others, but because they were scared.

It made a lot of sense to me what Al said about Bryer building up a persona to shield himself from hurt.

JMO!!!!

Right, but the description above is perfect to describe many of our spree killers. Troubled teens who have been bullied as a child, and built up an angry, aggressive persona in defense.

 

[Grouper]

Right, but the description above is perfect to describe many of our spree killers. Troubled teens who have been bullied as a child, and built up an angry, aggressive persona in defense.

Yeah, but that’s still conjecture, just as much as any of our theories are. JMO.

Also I thought I read somewhere that we’re no longer allowed to speculate on whether or not they were spree killers.

 

[Runningforthewind]

Troubled teens who have been bullied as a child, and built up an angry, aggressive persona in defense.

I think that can be said in general. It could be a common thread in teens/young adults murdering others because of pent up anger, but from what I've seen it usually close to home, they commit suicide close to the murder. They don't kill a couple, wait four days, kill another and then travel halfway across the countryto kill themselves. It's the actions of the sequence of events that makes this case stand out to other teen/young adult killings.

 

[Grouper]

I think that can be said in general. It could be a common thread in teens/young adults murdering others because of pent up anger, but from what I've seen it usually close to home, they commit suicide close to the murder. They don't kill a couple, wait four days, kill another and then travel halfway across the city to kill themselves. It's the actions of the sequence of events that makes this case stand out to other teen/young adult killings.

Also, to add to your post, correlation does not imply causation.

Why correlation does not imply causation?

I think this could be applied to a lot on this thread. JMO.

@katydid23 I don't believe it is enough to say there is a necessary correlation between being bullied as a teen, and being a spree killer. JMO.

EDIT: article above is very simple, here's a more in-depth one: If Correlation Doesn’t Imply Causation, Then What Does?

 

[bcgirl]

Am I the only one that feels slightly uncomfortable that the father of one victim got so much say in another country's investigation? I know he works in the police and I don't want to be disrespectful. But there were 5 families involved and none of them should be that involved in the case. JMO

RCMP stated LF's father was here but he was not "involved" in the investigation.

 

[Grouper]

I agree, however I think because of the wide public and international interest, the police will have to present more of their case against the accused than they would in a more 'private' murder- suicide. As well, this case involved an incredibly expensive manhunt, so I think they'll want to demonstrate exactly why they went to those extreme lengths: telling people in the communities to stay indoors, moving huge amounts of equipment and manpower to Northern Manitoba, and refusing to give up until the two were located, was unprecedented. I think police know they have to provide solid evidence, to prevent anyone giving credence to conspiracy theories or allegations that it was all based on a wrong hunch.

I think this is bang on. This case was, indeed, unprecedented. And the job of LE is not just to “solve crimes”, but also to prevent them. I hope at least something comes out in the report related to motive, as understanding the “Why” is equally as important as understanding the “How”.

Of course, as usual, JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree, however I think because of the wide public and international interest, the police will have to present more of their case against the accused than they would in a more 'private' murder- suicide. As well, this case involved an incredibly expensive manhunt, so I think they'll want to demonstrate exactly why they went to those extreme lengths: telling people in the communities to stay indoors, moving huge amounts of equipment and manpower to Northern Manitoba, and refusing to give up until the two were located, was unprecedented. I think police know they have to provide solid evidence, to prevent anyone giving credence to conspiracy theories or allegations that it was all based on a wrong hunch.

My comparison to domestic murder/suicide was that police consider the case closed based their investigative findings. The deceased murderer is not considered innocent until proven guilty.

Yes I agree, in this case I’m sure we’ll learn of background information and evidence implicating the two, similar to the police report released in the Greektown shootings where the shooter also died by suicide prior to an arrest taking place.

 

[Kubirai]

I was definitely asking about the darkness in BC. Because I was wondering how visible Lucas and Chynna would be to their killer(s). How noticeable they could possibly have been in their van, assuming they were asleep inside when their van was first approached.

The killers could just have used a flashlight, with guns pointed at whoever was inside.

Otherwise , if they closed their eyes a bit to adjust, they would have seen inside that type of van, with clear windows, on that night. Best guess from a few tests in July/Aug.

 

[Pyecraft]

RCMP stated LF's father was here but he was not "involved" in the investigation.

Not quite so ....
NSW police to assist family after death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada

Clipped from the article....

' ......rcmp capacity and capability to run this investigation but our commissioner has made a great decision to send over two officers purely to assist the families.'
...... nice cover story

Then there's that South African manhunter interiew in Gillam. Australia was a top destination for SA emigrants leaving after the ANC take-over. Afrikani bushtrackers were top of their trade following years of chasing rebels through Botswana and Namibia.

I doubt very much that New South Wales Police Chief Inspector Stephen Fowler, would simply walk away from his son's murder investigation, but I can see it being very low profile for the bad pr it might cause.

RCMP have never, to my knowledge, called in such a massive integrated search force for local victims.

 

[MistyWaters]

If they were psychopaths why stop at three murders? There have been no reported murders following the 19th. They interacted with many people and had multiple opportunities but they didn't.

Are you equating psychopathy to mass murderers? Because it’s definitely not one and the same and not all psychopaths are murderers.

One possible reason why the murders ceased after the first 3 victims was because B&K were naive enough to think it would be assumed they died in the burning truck and camper, so they’d never be connected to the murders of the three homicide victims after they fled thousands of kms away. Plan A didn’t work, Plan B became to flee to somewhere where they weren’t known, to escape, as far away as the northern roads east took them. JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

Not quite so ....
NSW police to assist family after death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada

Clipped from the article....

' ......rcmp capacity and capability to run this investigation but our commissioner has made a great decision to send over two officers purely to assist the families.'
...... nice cover story

Then there's that South African manhunter interiew in Gillam. Australia was a top destination for SA emigrants leaving after the ANC take-over. Afrikani bushtrackers were top of their trade following years of chasing rebels through Botswana and Namibia.

I doubt very much that New South Wales Police Chief Inspector Stephen Fowler, would simply walk away from his son's murder investigation, but I can see it being very low profile for the bad pr it might cause.

RCMP have never, to my knowledge, called in such a massive integrated search force for local victims.

“send over two officers purely to assist the families.'..”

How does this prove an integrated search force was taking place?

I see nothing wrong with two detectives acting as liaisons to the victims family who live half way around the world. It would enable them to receive accurate information and police updates as opposed to relying on the SM or MSM.

“The New South Wales police force is sending two of its detectives to Vancouver to act as liaisons for the victim's families, said Assistant Commissioner Mark Jones.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...ous-death-lucas-fowler-chynna-deese-1.5217782

 

[Runningforthewind]

One possible reason why the murders ceased after the first 3 victims was because B&K were naive enough to think it would be assumed they died in the burning truck and camper, so they’d never be connected to the murders of the three homicide victims after they fled thousands of kms away.

Then surely they wouldn't walk into a hardware store where there is cameras or introduce themselves to strangers by their first name either.

 

[MistyWaters]

Then surely they wouldn't walk into a hardware store where there is cameras or introduce themselves to strangers by their first name either.

As security cameras are invisible how would they know which stores or restaurants had them, or which didn’t?

As the man from Meadow Lake didn’t speak to the media until after the two were publicly identified as suspects, how can it be proven his memory is accurate about the names they gave to him? That short interaction seemed to grow longer and more remarkable as time went on. -

“Two younger males were observed outside of a Toyota RAV-4,” the release said. “The resident assisted the pair in getting unstuck, and they continued on their way after a short, unremarkable interaction.”..”
Cold Lake residents shaken after B.C. murder suspects spotted in Alberta town

 

[Runningforthewind]

As security cameras are invisible how would they know which stores or restaurants had them, or which didn’t?

It's a hardware store, of course it had cameras. It's common sense.