Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[1987]

moo. if a flash light is taped to a shotgun on the top shining down the barrel it can be used like a sight.
click the flash light on and where the light is the shotgun will hit.

 

[1987]

moo. about the broken glass in back right door. it is a known problem on that type van of that vintage for the inside door handle to not work or at best be hard to work. if someone was trapped in the van breaking out the window and trying to get to the outside handle to open the door would be the best option for escape. the right hand door MUST open before the left hand door can open. there is no option to open the left hand door until the right hand door is open. I own a van of this vintage. I don't drive it anymore. my rear door has been repaired multiple times over the years that I still drove it. left and right viewed as from outside back.

 

[sandbar]

Exactly, and this is what I keep coming back to. We know next to nothing about either about Bryer or Kam. Or the crimes for that matter. It's so weird seeing people try to diagnose them or psychoanalyse what they "must" have been thinking or feeling.

Exactly.

We haven't seen anything K&B have written, drawn or created; haven't heard their voices, haven't even seen K's hands, etc.

We've seen a handful of photos and one video. And there is one huge piece of circumstantial evidence against them --driving LD's RAV4 (that's what we know, LE knows more). God help us all if we are to be judged mentally ill and guilty on that as evidence.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

moo. about the broken glass in back right door. it is a known problem on that type van of that vintage for the inside door handle to not work or at best be hard to work. if someone was trapped in the van breaking out the window and trying to get to the outside handle to open the door would be the best option for escape. the right hand door MUST open before the left hand door can open. there is no option to open the left hand door until the right hand door is open. I own a van of this vintage. I don't drive it anymore. my rear door has been repaired multiple times over the years that I still drove it. left and right viewed as from outside back.

I think the broken glass out back window was from an attempted escape if someone scrambled to the back of the van for refuge or was cornered in. I thought maybe kicked out but doubtful since no shoes/one shoe. I'm not entirely convinced it was a gun shot that blew it out although of course, possible.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Dbm duplicate post

 

[1987]

I think the broken glass out back window was from an attempted escape if someone scrambled to the back of the van for refuge or was cornered in. I thought maybe kicked out but doubtful since no shoes/one shoe. I'm not entirely convinced it was a gun shot that blew it out although of course, possible.

I am 5ft 4. the window center is shoulder height on me when standing in back of similar van. a shoulder shove could break it out.

 

[Grouper]

Exactly.

We haven't seen anything K&B have written, drawn or created; haven't heard their voices, haven't even seen K's hands, etc.

We've seen a handful of photos and one video. And there is one huge piece of circumstantial evidence against them --driving LD's RAV4 (that's what we know, LE knows more). God help us all if we are to be judged mentally ill and guilty on that as evidence.

Yep. 100%.

Also, take note of how many different interpretations people have made on that 10-second meadow lake footage. Just goes to show there is really nothing conclusive to be found from scrutinizing an expression, or a photo. If there was, then we’d all be in agreement.

JMO. MOO. Whatever.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think if Kam kept up with friendly appearances and manners as described he might think he's outsmarting everyone and relish in doing so even.

No one knows if his niceness was genuine or an act. Also, by fooling people he might think it makes people less suspicious of him (and/or Bryer). I'm surprised some take social niceties as reasons they wouldn't kill anyone... Nice, friendly people kill too!

 

[sandbar]

I’d like to pose a completely random question — this is something I’ve been wondering for a while now:

How severe is the darkness at night, in northern B.C.? Is it pitch black, or is there a fair amount of stellar illumination?

Would a person be able to walk to up to a van in the middle of the night and see it clearly, or would it be silhouetted in the dark? And (harder question to answer of course) could someone look into a van window and see people inside?

Asking partially because of Alandra Hull’s account, partially because of other things I’m curious about.

This was discussed earlier in the forum. I remember someone saying that far north, at that time of year, it would saty twillight all night.

I imagine, from my experiences in remote northern Ontario, that the sound of tires, or footsteps might be enough to wake someone up, because it. is. so. quiet.

 

[Trooper]

Am I the only one that feels slightly uncomfortable that the father of one victim got so much say in another country's investigation? I know he works in the police and I don't want to be disrespectful. But there were 5 families involved and none of them should be that involved in the case. JMO

This would be a complete waste of feeling uncomfortable, in this context. Stephen Fowler would have got no 'say' ( if that is the correct term) in Canada's investigation. As a courtesy, among police forces right throughout the world , if requested, a representative of the victims is often attached as a liason officer, to expedite communication and matters of international repatriation of a dead body.

Which is what Stephen Fowler was faced with, along with Mr and Mrs Deese, the return of what was left of their beloved son and daughters remains.

It is not an unusual event. A young woman, Lisa Harnum was murdered in Sydney, by a horror called Simon Gittany, and , she being Canadian, a lot of liason between the NSW police and the RCMP went on to expedite matters for her family, including the appearance of 2 rather nifty RCMP officers at the trial of Gittany as an assistance to Lisa's mother.

None of this is out of the ordinary. It goes on all over the world, AU cops to Thailand, USA cops to NZ, Brit cops to South Africa, AU cops to Bulgaria, RCMP chaps to India, it is part of the well developed good will and professional ties that bind all police forces.

Nothing to be uncomfy about.

 

[Satchie]

Then surely they wouldn't walk into a hardware store where there is cameras or introduce themselves to strangers by their first name either.

They were a long way from BC and likely felt perfectly safe.

The exact timing of that hardware store visit hasn't been released, but it was on the same day as the press release which first released their names and faces as missing persons.
RCMP in British Columbia - Update - Police seek public assistance in Dease Lake investigation

That press release is timestamped 18:31 PDT, that would make it 7:30 pm in Saskatchewan, so it's highly likely they didn't yet know they were even on the police radar.

 

[sandbar]

I am not implying anything. I am just clearly saying I don't think that any victims family should be part of the investigation or send any officers from another country to help. In any case. RCPM should work autonomously and keep the families updated obviously

It wasn't stated exactly what the officers from AUS were going to do, something vague was in early reports. But they will most definitely NOT be working on the investigation. More than likely they were there to relay information between busy RCMP and grieving parents.

 

[Satchie]

Exactly.

We haven't seen anything K&B have written, drawn or created; haven't heard their voices, haven't even seen K's hands, etc.

We've seen a handful of photos and one video. And there is one huge piece of circumstantial evidence against them --driving LD's RAV4 (that's what we know, LE knows more). God help us all if we are to be judged mentally ill and guilty on that as evidence.

Every case I've followed on websleuths has involved massive speculation on guilt, motive and psychology of individuals named as suspects. By the time the case comes to trial, it may have already been so thoroughly hashed over that the trial merely confirms many posters beliefs. That's not a problem, this isn't a court of law.

 

[Trooper]

It wasn't stated exactly what the officers from AUS were going to do, something vague was in early reports. But they will most definitely NOT be working on the investigation. More than likely they were there to relay information between busy RCMP and grieving parents.

Precisely.

(a). The AU officers delegated would have no authority to operate within Canadian borders in an investigatory position. Nor would they wish to.

(b). This kind of courtesy/goodwill gesture is done among Police forces right across the globe, and particularly at the echelon that Lucas Fowler's father was at, probably as a result of a long working relationship with the RCMP, the various state Police forces in the USA, Britain, Europe, et al, etc, ad infinitum, it's a global world.

(c) Nothing uncomfortable about it. Nothing underhanded, conspiratorial, 'deep state-ish', left wing, right wing, et al, adinfinitum to feel about it.

(d)It goes on all the time. There is nothing unique about this series of murders. Teenage males have been getting up and going out and killing people at random since forever. A couple of female teenagers have tried it on, too. Not a new thing. Not new that there was two of them of the same perspective and determination. Not unknown that they travelled around a bit to do it. The surprising part is how long they lasted at it and stuck together, and their realization that it had an endgame. Not a lot of killers have a firm idea of their own death, as these two seemed to have.

 

[Satchie]

Precisely.

(a). The AU officers delegated would have no authority to operate within Canadian borders in an investigatory position. Nor would they wish to.

(b). This kind of courtesy/goodwill gesture is done among Police forces right across the globe, and particularly at the echelon that Lucas Fowler's father was at, probably as a result of a long working relationship with the RCMP, the various state Police forces in the USA, Britain, Europe, et al, etc, ad infinitum, it's a global world.

(d) Nothing uncomfortable about it. Nothing underhanded, conspiratorial, 'deep state-ish', left wing, right wing, et al, adinfinitum to feel about it.

I think the Australian media initially implied the Aussie police were going over to solve the crime, but that was just a nationalistic media narrative.

 

[Trooper]

I think the Australian media initially implied the Aussie police were going over to solve the crime, but that was just a nationalistic media narrative.

Really?.. I don't recall ever seeing that in any of the news reports here in Sydney... not a thing about Mr Fowler 'off to solve the crime'. Just a broken hearted father, ( of course, not to take anything away from Alan Schemelgsky, ) trying to come to grips with what had happened.... maybe I missed it.


Seems a strange perspective to put forward since it seemed a quite normal thing to do. That his father would fly over to Vancouver and being a police commissioner be supported by the RCMP, and that a couple of blokes from the NSW police division, at their own expense would accompany him and be able to work in a liason capacity. Which is what occurred. All perfectly reasonable to me. All reciprocated right across police forces , even when English isn't the common language spoken. Done every day.

 

[srper2]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I would think the officers were probably close colleagues providing support in the most awful circumstances. There is nothing nonsense about this, his son had just been murdered in cold blood. If he wants to bring support, he can bring whoever he wants.

 

[Trooper]

I think the Australian media initially implied the Aussie police were going over to solve the crime, but that was just a nationalistic media narrative.

No doubt there are some police forces that the NSW police would be a bit skeptical about, we all know who they would be, but the respect and trust of the RCMP is quite outstanding, world wide, not in any romantic or sentimental way, but in firm reality and real results.

The NSW and QLD police were tremendously assisted by the RCMP in bringing off a sting operation against a man called Brett COWAN, in persuading him to confess to Mr Big, as the RCMP had managed to pull off in the case of Sebastian Burns and Atif Raffay. A long working relationship that went on intensely for over 2 years, quite recently.
Without the rat cunning of the RCMP , that case would have never reached any resolvement, and the gratitude of the AU pop generally in having the Daniel Morecombe case finalized would not , I think be fertile ground to believe that the RCMP needed any 'help' at all.

 

[Satchie]

Really?.. I don't recall ever seeing that in any of the news reports here in Sydney... not a thing about Mr Fowler 'off to solve the crime'. Just a broken hearted father, ( of course, not to take anything away from Alan Schemelgsky, ) trying to come to grips with what had happened.... maybe I missed it.


Seems a strange perspective to put forward since it seemed a quite normal thing to do. That his father would fly over to Vancouver and being a police commissioner be supported by the RCMP, and that a couple of blokes from the NSW police division, at their own expense would accompany him and be able to work in a liason capacity. Which is what occurred. All perfectly reasonable to me. All reciprocated right across police forces , even when English isn't the common language spoken. Done every day.

I recall at least one headline because I replied to it: "NSW police to help investigate death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada."

The paper later modified the headline, probably at request of police. It was recorded in this post: CANADA - Lucas Fowler, Australian & g/f Chynna Deese, American, murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019

The point I was making is that the media will often try to add drama to an exciting story, whether they do it through naivety or cynicism, I can't say.

 

[Trooper]

From that headline.

(Italics mine , for emphasis )

NSW Police assistant commissioner Mark Jones told reporters in Sydney on Saturday that two homicide detectives would act in a liaison-type role.

“The RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) are an outstanding organisation, we have the utmost confidence in their capacity and capability to run this investigation but our commissioner has made a great decision to send over two officers ... purely to assist the families,” he said.

“Just breaking down some of the communication and just really keeping us appraised and them appraised of what’s going on.”

Fowler’s father, Stephen, chief inspector for Sydney’s north-west Hills district, and other family members have flown to Canada “to be with our boy and to bring him home”.


( where on earth this becomes a nationalistic narrative , Au wide, state to state, from Darwin to Hobart, from Sydney to Perth , which is what nationalistic implies, I simply don't know. )

ANYWAYS..... it hardly matters in the overall tragedy of this terrible encounter between 2 people, so very far from home, and 2 young men, so very far from normality, and not deterred by killing Lucas and Chynna, went on to murder Prof Dyck. They were not disgusted by themselves, nor each other, they did not recoil from each other, or themselves, they merrily travelled on to their next encounter.