Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[LoisLane]

As security cameras are invisible how would they know which stores or restaurants had them, or which didn’t?

As the man from Meadow Lake didn’t speak to the media until after the two were publicly identified as suspects, how can it be proven his memory is accurate about the names they gave to him? That short interaction seemed to grow longer and more remarkable as time went on. -

“Two younger males were observed outside of a Toyota RAV-4,” the release said. “The resident assisted the pair in getting unstuck, and they continued on their way after a short, unremarkable interaction.”..”
Cold Lake residents shaken after B.C. murder suspects spotted in Alberta town

Just a note about the cameras at COOP. They are the tinted domes and can be seen in the ceiling of the store. IIRC there was one at the back of the store where we saw the footage of the suspects coming around the corner. Pics on their website.

 

[zinny77]

these two young men were not the sharpest knives in the drawer. A five week placement at Walmart stonkered them, and nowhere does it say they got even that job on merit, it may have been a placement from the alternative school they went to , Walmart taking them on as a community service.

Can I have the MSM proving that it was a 5 weeks placement? I was under the impression that it was a job (one that doean't define the intelligence of an 18 and 19 uears old - or any age -IMO).

But yeah, running out of ammunition is a possibility. One that would ontradict a bit the plan of a lifetime coming to fruition but they might have been that stupid, I didn't know them.

 

[LoisLane]

It's a hardware store, of course it had cameras. It's common sense.

The COOP has visible cameras. The style of camera is commonly used. The hunting/rifle section is at the back of the store where they walked from on the footage (most likely multiple cameras there as well). I think they were noting the cameras (by their glances and the Kam nod) as they walked around.

 

[Trooper]

Can I have the MSM proving that it was a 5 weeks placement? I was under the impression that it was a job (one that doean't define the intelligence of an 18 and 19 uears old - or any age -IMO).

But yeah, running out of amminition is a possibility. One that would ontradict a bit the plan of a lifetime coming to fruition but they might have been that stupid, I didn't know them.

By placement I meant they only lasted 5 weeks there at Walmart, possibly because they were not promoted as quickly as they felt entitled to, perhaps the night shift became onerous and distasteful, maybe their colleagues at work were wary of them, whatever, from having a job they went to having no job and no income, and no prospects on the horizon.

That, at 18,. 19 is a bit reckless. In anyone's language. And it appears, they never actually got to Whitehorse to 'get a job' or Yukon, either. Or any job at all once they left Port Alberni. It is reasonable to assume that 'getting a job' was the message to be delivered to the parents, and nothing to do with the reality.

And maybe the ammo thing, it is possible they not only bought not enough, but they bought the wrong kind of ammo with them. People have done sillier things. One thing, they didn't want to kill face to face, shoulder to shoulder with their victims. That was not on the agenda, hence the rifle in the first place. This wasn't a mano a mano jaunt. It wasn't a 'test of their manhood' journey'. .

It is entirely possible that killing a woman, violently, brutally, was their first effort. Wont know that until the RCMP report which one was disabled first, maybe we'll never know that. But killing a woman was certainly on their agenda. They did not balk at that.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I don’t think social niceties negate a person from killing. I also don’t think being socially awkward, weird, a loner, etc, is a good basis for assuming someone is a killer. MOO

Exactly! I agree. All kinds of people kill from all social demographics and backgrounds some social outcasts, some highly successful in their careers.

I guess you could say I'm surprised that many people don't want to believe K&B are capable because they seemed nice and polite. And like you say, it works the other way that strange behaviour doesn't always equate to being a killer.

I do believe RCMP have solid evidence. The amount of money and resources spent to find them in the manhunt to prevent another murder says to me they have evidence. I think they went through such strides because they knew there would be a public outcry if more victims and was preventable. All JMO

 

[zinny77]

By placement I meant they only lasted 5 weeks there at Walmart, possibly because they were not promoted as quickly as they felt entitled to, perhaps the night shift became onerous and distasteful, maybe their colleagues at work were wary of them, whatever, from having a job they went to having no job and no income, and no prospects on the horizon.

I think that they had a set amount they wanted to save before leaving (whatever the reason for leaving was) and when they reached it, they left. I don't think that a promotion at walmart was ever in their plan. They wanted out of Port Alberni JMO but this is what me and most of my friends did. You are a bit reckless like that when you are 18/19. We don't know if they had any other kind of savings either.

 

[Runningforthewind]

I think that they had a set amount they wanted to save before leaving (whatever the reason for leaving was) and when they reached it, they left. Indon't think a promotion at walmart was ever in their plan. They wanted out of Port Alberni JMO but this is what me and most of my friends did. You are a bit reckless like that when you are 18/19. We don't know if they had any other kind of savings either.

I'm pretty sure Kam's family did help with some money. I doubt they'd let their nineteen-year-old son leave the city, on a road trip to find jobs without enough money and resources to get by for a couple of months max.

 

[Trooper]

Whoa. Maybe we don’t need that level of graphic description.

.

edited by me for clarity.


I don't know how you are going to cope with the RCMP report, then. Or the Coroners report. This will be graphic, it will be detailed, and it wont be taking into account how much graphic description people can deal with. It just doesn't work like that. It simply will tell it like it is, how the coroner found it to be, and that will be that.

We are talking about murder here. Murder of three people, people who contributed a lot to their friends, and family, and community at large. People who worked , and paid taxes, who had dreams and hopes and aspirations, who dealt with their bills on time and who's families adored them. Families that are well and truly broken. Never to be repaired. . We are not talking about pinochle here.

 

[zinny77]

That was not on the agenda, hence the rifle in the first place. .

I missed that information. Has it been confirmed that it was a rifle? Or is it just that unconfirmed story of someone seeing them buying guns?

Killing people with your hands doesn't prove manhood. No killing does. JMO

 

[Trooper]

I think that they had a set amount they wanted to save before leaving (whatever the reason for leaving was) and when they reached it, they left. Indon't think a promotion at walmart was ever in their plan. They wanted out of Port Alberni JMO but this is what me and most of my friends did. You are a bit reckless like that when you are 18/19. We don't know if they had any other kind of savings either.

How do you know they had a set amount they wanted to save? is that written somewhere? . did they leave a note with Walmart along those lines? / How do you know that they didn't expect some kind of promotion at Walmart? it is just as likely they did. Just as likely to have been in their plan.

 

[Grouper]

Exactly! I agree. All kinds of people kill from all social demographics and backgrounds some social outcasts, some highly successful in their careers.

I guess you could say I'm surprised that many people don't want to believe K&B are capable because they seemed nice and polite. And like you say, it works the other way that strange behaviour doesn't always equate to being a killer.

I do believe RCMP have solid evidence. The amount of money and resources spent to find them in the manhunt to prevent another murder says to me they have evidence. I think they went through such strides because they knew there would be a public outcry if more victims and was preventable. All JMO

Oh, absolutely.

They could have been wonderful people, lovely, sweet, gentle, and could still be somehow proven to have committed these crimes. I can’t deny anything at this point (although I do believe the story is more complex than what we know).

I guess when I post on here, it’s less of a “they were great guys so they didn’t do it!” And more of:

People want to paint them with one sweeping brush. That they were these depraved individuals lusting for a kill. IMO it almost looks like people take pleasure in hating them (JMO and not targeting anyone on this thread specifically, just generally).

People as a whole are way more intricately designed. Without making a whole big deal again I just want to say I’m offering an alternative perspective to the Bad Boy image the media has built up of them.

They didn’t seem all bad (or all good) to me. And I don’t think it’s fair to say that because they are suspects, they are also incapable of really being the people that their loved ones knew.

All JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

For those who think Kam was a psychopath/sociopath/angry inside person but hid it (you might be right, as said above, we all speculate, your specualtion is as good as mine) , why do you think once he snapped and killed, he stopped after three murders?

Same for Bryer, if he was supposedly disturbed and fantasizing about murder for years why stop at 3 muders.

Do you think they got their need to kill out then they were good? They just wanted to kill once to know the feeling? (But then why kill again?). Kiling wasn't what they thought ot would be? (Same).

I know nobody was in their head but I'd be curious to get people's theory about it. Because if it was a long time in the making, two disturbed individuals with a urge to kill, they got over it fast. And you would have to be pretty comitted to decide to go kill some people randomly.

I have seen nothing that woild make me think that they were reckless, completely stupid and distanced from reality to the point of going to kill for fun without realising what killing is (JMO of course, I wasn't in their head)

There a difference in somebody committing murder believing nobody will ever know - and later when escape from police becomes key, knowing they are sought after.

I’m not sure where the notion of blood thirsty murderers killing a multiple times on a fly though across the country originates from, aside from maybe horror movies or serial killers over a period of years and years (even then it’s not constant).

 

[Trooper]

I missed that information. Has it been confirmed that it was a rifle? Or is it just that unconfirmed story of someone seeing them buying guns?

Killing people with your hands doesn't prove manhood. No killing does. JMO

According to the RCMP it was 'gunshot violence' that killed Prof Dyck. I assume a rifle, as handguns are not as common for young men in Canada as they are south of the border, but I am just as happy to label it as handguns, no problem. No worries, either way. Rifle made more sense in that it would have been , perhaps , something Kam's father had around the house... I don't think they themselves ever bought any weaponry. No one has seen or said that..

 

[Trooper]

Oh, absolutely.

They could have been wonderful people, lovely, sweet, gentle, and could still be somehow proven to have committed these crimes. I can’t deny anything at this point (although I do believe the story is more complex than what we know).

I guess when I post on here, it’s less of a “they were great guys so they didn’t do it!” And more of:

People want to paint them with one sweeping brush. That they were these depraved individuals lusting for a kill. IMO it almost looks like people take pleasure in hating them (JMO and not targeting anyone on this thread specifically, just generally).

People as a whole are way more intricately designed. Without making a whole big deal again I just want to say I’m offering an alternative perspective to the Bad Boy image the media has built up of them.

They didn’t seem all bad (or all good) to me. And I don’t think it’s fair to say that because they are suspects, they are also incapable of really being the people that their loved ones knew.

All JMO.

This is a victim friendly site. It weighs more on the area of victim empathy and sympathy than trying to see the good points of killers. It just is that way.

Sure, Kam and Bry may have been the two young men who took the kindy kids out for nature walks, they may have walked dogs for the elderly in Port Alberni, they may have been volunteers at the local hospital , reading to the bed bound, they may have been assistants to the Scouts leader, Akela to the Brownies, sung in the choir, tidied up the hymn books after church.. …

Delivering lunches to the lonely at homers, helping distraught young mums cross the road with various children tagging along...

All these things.. Sure.

It doesn't mean they didn't murder Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese and Prof Dyck.

 

[Grouper]

edited by me for clarity.


I don't know how you are going to cope with the RCMP report, then. Or the Coroners report. This will be graphic, it will be detailed, and it wont be taking into account how much graphic description people can deal with. It just doesn't work like that. It simply will tell it like it is, how the coroner found it to be, and that will be that.

We are talking about murder here. Murder of three people, people who contributed a lot to their friends, and family, and community at large. People who worked , and paid taxes, who had dreams and hopes and aspirations, who dealt with their bills on time and who's families adored them. Families that are well and truly broken. Never to be repaired. . We are not talking about pinochle here.

RCMP reports would never go into graphic detail about death. IMO it’s unnecessary to go into it here, either.

 

[zinny77]

This is a victim friendly site. It weighs more on the area of victim empathy and sympathy than trying to see the good points of killers. It just is that way..

This is a website to discuss and try to understand crimes. Understanding the suspects is a big part of it. Pretending that they were just horrible people won't help. It's not about loving them. It's about understanding how who they were impacted on what they did. You are entitled to see them and everything they did as negatively as you want, we are entitled not to. JMO

 

[Grouper]

I missed that information. Has it been confirmed that it was a rifle? Or is it just that unconfirmed story of someone seeing them buying guns?

Killing people with your hands doesn't prove manhood. No killing does. JMO

It has not been confirmed what kind of weapons Bryer and Kam had, or where they were procured.

 

[Trooper]

RCMP reports would never go into graphic detail about death. IMO it’s unnecessary to go into it here, either.

I very much suspect that report will do exactly that, because it goes to the matter of the level of depravity and viciousness of these murders. I very much doubt the RCMP , or the British Columbian Coroners report will be short and simply state 'dead'.

It just doesn't happen that way.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just a note about the cameras at COOP. They are the tinted domes and can be seen in the ceiling of the store. IIRC there was one at the back of the store where we saw the footage of the suspects coming around the corner. Pics on their website.

By now I’d bet police have collected other CCTV footage from other locations from BC to Manitoba in completing the timeline including campgrounds, stores or restaurants and certainly gas stations where the two were not recognized at the time.

 

[Trooper]

It has not been confirmed what kind of weapons Bryer and Kam had, or where they were procured.

But you would agree that it was in the vicinity of 'gunshot violence' , as quoted by the RCMP? > meaning, that a gun of some caliber was involved... ?? or.. you have other information that negates the whole idea of 'gunshot". ? The RCMP didn't detail the method used to murder Lucas Fowler, or Chynna Deese. That may turn out to be quite complex, but the RCMP was definite that in the case of Prof Dyck, the term used was 'gunshot violence'. .