Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #641
It's been about 7 weeks since their bodies were found...that's still a few weeks. Bureaucracy always takes longer than planned.

But they had enough evidence to charge them more than 2 months ago. And strong evidence to link them to both crime scenes more than 7 weeks ago. The evidence had to have been tested by then to be so sure. 7 weeks is more than a few weeks. IMO

But yes, they can release whatever they want whenever they want, they know better than us. It's just a bit frustrating that they don't release what they have already (my problem not theirs, I know!)
 
Last edited:
  • #642
It's been about 7 weeks since their bodies were found...that's still a few weeks. Bureaucracy always takes longer than planned.

And there is SO much bureaucracy involved in something like this...approvals of wording up and down the line and from every department involved.

I’m sure the RCMP aren’t feeling the same sense of urgency we are all feeling on here...watching the clocks tick minute by minute, day by day...constantly hitting refresh on the browser...or so I imagine ;)
 
  • #643
<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Someone responding to the article on Twitter brought up a very good point in that "whackjobs" email government officials all the time, why are 12 people's emails in a country of 37 million, a story?

Those emails seem like they're from a few backseat driver types that have no idea how things work in policing. For example, comparing military to assistance in foreign disaster areas and how/when they were deployed during this manhunt, just proves the person is ignorant about policing, how searches are conducted in this country and has an axe to grind. Same as the person who wants Goodale fired and for this to become an election issue.

Who's willing to bet that the people emailing the PMO thought that the RCMP were wasting their time up in Gillam because the suspects had fled long ago?
 
  • #644
I wonder if he meant to say suspects’ families, rather than victims’ families?

BBM

“Generally speaking the concerns over evidence, release of information [and] so forth disappear, or certainly dissipate, after death," he said, adding RCMP are likely treading carefully in an effort to minimize harm to the victims' families.

"It could be inflammatory. It could be embarrassing. It could be nasty. We just don't know," he said, speaking of the reported videos...”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/pmo-letters-schmegelsky-mcleod-search-1.5288903
The victims have been forgotten on this forum, all the attention is on the suspects. I have a very small amount of inside knowledge of Dr. Dyck. He was part of the academic, scientific community in BC, very dignified and kind people, everybody knows and cares about everybody else. This is not a violent place, like you see on TV or in the US, and people who loved or even just knew him are still in shock and horror around the extremely violent circumstances of his death, and of the media circus surrounding it. For example, consider that his family only discovered he was dead when they recognized a drawing of his face made after his brutal murder and circulated in the news.

This is a very different reaction to the news than Lucas Fowler's family, who are involved in policework and are familiar with violent death. But it must be respected.

This family has already been massively victimized by the loss of their beloved husband, father, brother. But then they have to endure being revictimized by the publicity surrounding the circumstances, that are to them, deeply emotional, personal and private.

Privacy laws are strong in BC, and the RCMP will not just follow the letter of the law, they wil place the victim's families desire for privacy to grieve, above the public's curiosity, as long as they can.
 
  • #645
I totally agree. People assume that the man they see is the man that he was before. My sister passed away when I was 11 (natural causes) and my mother became the shell of who she was. Emotionally unstable, accusing people of being responsible and making no sense. For months.

And she didn't have to deal with 1/100th of what Bryer's Dad is going through. And Bryer is the one dragged in the mud compared to Kam .

A.S. reactions needs to be seen as the reaction of a grieving father. JmO

Agreed! He seems to have an innate need and propensity to talk through situations, and that is likely just part of his personality - good OR bad.

Have you ever known a wonderful person who has ONE really annoying habit that drives you to distraction? His need to talk through the things he is thinking and feeling may be his personal downfall; one that didn't serve him well WAY before he was even an adult. I find him articulate and clear about what he is trying to communicate, but I doubt I could live with someone who provides a running, documentary-like commentary on why the birds are singing or why dinner tastes good (or not, lol). It would drive me nuts and I would likely separate my life from that person's life. All the while, of course, they would be talking and talking and talking, etc. etc.
 
  • #646
Agreed! He seems to have an innate need and propensity to talk through situations, and that is likely just part of his personality - good OR bad.

Have you ever known a wonderful person who has ONE really annoying habit that drives you to distraction? His need to talk through the things he is thinking and feeling may be his personal downfall; one that didn't serve him well WAY before he was even an adult. I find him articulate and clear about what he is trying to communicate, but I doubt I could live with someone who provides a running, documentary-like commentary on why the birds are singing or why dinner tastes good (or not, lol). It would drive me nuts and I would likely separate my life from that person's life. All the while, of course, they would be talking and talking and talking, etc. etc.
Yes, I have suspected from the beginning that Alan is by nature a talker, and he needed to talk to process what had happened. I think Bryer was probably the extent of his support system and was probably who he talked to about everything before he was gone. In the wake of his son's disappearance and death, I do think the media filled that role for him.
 
  • #647
The victims have been forgotten on this forum, all the attention is on the suspects. I have a very small amount of inside knowledge of Dr. Dyck. He was part of the academic, scientific community in BC, very dignified and kind people, everybody knows and cares about everybody else. This is not a violent place, like you see on TV or in the US, and people who loved or even just knew him are still in shock and horror around the extremely violent circumstances of his death, and of the media circus surrounding it. For example, consider that his family only discovered he was dead when they recognized a drawing of his face made after his brutal murder and circulated in the news.

This is a very different reaction to the news than Lucas Fowler's family, who are involved in policework and are familiar with violent death. But it must be respected.

This family has already been massively victimized by the loss of their beloved husband, father, brother. But then they have to endure being revictimized by the publicity surrounding the circumstances, that are to them, deeply emotional, personal and private.

Privacy laws are strong in BC, and the RCMP will not just follow the letter of the law, they wil place the victim's families desire for privacy to grieve, above the public's curiosity, as long as they can.

Oh yes, I definitely agree with you. Maybe it was his choice of words “minimize harm to victims’ families” that’s somewhat ambiguous because the three families would’ve already been well beyond “harmed” through the sudden loss of their loved ones upon learning they were senselessly murdered. But indeed, perhaps the concern over releasing additional facts and details involving the victims’ murders so soon is the potential for unduly causing the victims’ families increased devastation and heartbreak at this time.
 
  • #648
The victims have been forgotten on this forum, all the attention is on the suspects.

SBM

The discussion will naturally be about the progression of events and the motive, but that doesn't mean the victims have been forgotten. There just isn't much to discuss about the victims beyond that they all seemed to be kind, lovely people who were passionate about life, which we have all discussed many times.
 
  • #649
My own parents went through a tough period (they didn't divorce) and I was my mother's sounding board. One day I told her to stop dissing my dad to me because I was not her emotional dumpster.

I think you're right; BS was AS's emotional dumpster. It's clear that AS never really moved on in life after his divorce. He had no home, no other kids and no life partner so he was stuck in a loop about all of the things that were wrong with his prior life with BS' mom. So TAG - you're it, BS!
I've long thought any communication that happened between Bryer's dad and Bryer's mom's side of the family occurred with Bryer as the medium of communication. Having personally been the child in an acrimonious divorce, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Bryer found that an uncomfortable responsibility, despite loving both sides. As an only child, he didn't have siblings who could help share the burden either.

MOO
 
  • #650
SBM

The discussion will naturally be about the progression of events and the motive, but that doesn't mean the victims have been forgotten. There just isn't much to discuss about the victims beyond that they all seemed to be kind, lovely people who were passionate about life, which we have all discussed many times.
Agreed 100%!

The Toronto Star did a lovely series on all 3 victims that has been shared on here several times.

I think it's just inevitable that the discussion is going to be more focused on trying to parse what happened, which inevitably leads back to Kam and Bryer and their possible motives, in the wake of no new news from authorities.

MOO
 
  • #651
SBM

The discussion will naturally be about the progression of events and the motive, but that doesn't mean the victims have been forgotten. There just isn't much to discuss about the victims beyond that they all seemed to be kind, lovely people who were passionate about life, which we have all discussed many times.
Yes, too strong a blanket statement. But, in the context of why RCMP is or isn't releasing details about the case, the victim's families are, in fact, a very important consideration for police, their feelings and desire for privacy must be recognized as a very high priority in these decisions.
 
  • #652
I've long thought any communication that happened between Bryer's dad and Bryer's mom's side of the family occurred with Bryer as the medium of communication. Having personally been the child in an acrimonious divorce, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Bryer found that an uncomfortable responsibility, despite loving both sides. As an only child, he didn't have siblings who could help share the burden either.

MOO

I can imagine it would be a very heavy responsibility for sure, to be caught in the middle.

I’m a bit confused, if a No Contact order is granted against a noncustodial parent preventing communication with a child’s mother or grandmother with whom he lives.....yet the other parent has visitation rights....

That arrangement seems very unusual to me because it would place the burden solely on the teen in communicating and agreeing (or not) when, where and how he has contact with his father.

Does anyone know, is this typical?
 
  • #653
I've long thought any communication that happened between Bryer's dad and Bryer's mom's side of the family occurred with Bryer as the medium of communication. Having personally been the child in an acrimonious divorce, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Bryer found that an uncomfortable responsibility, despite loving both sides. As an only child, he didn't have siblings who could help share the burden either.

MOO

Agreed. I've been in that situation too between all three other members of my family, and it sucks. Of course it goes without saying, it's not any justification to go out and gun down innocent people. But if someone -- an impulsive and mercurial teenager, that is -- has those violent tendencies and is already depressed and losing hope, and nobody notices how dire their inner emotional situation has gotten and bad things keep piling on, it could be one more factor that pushes them over the edge. Like that case MistyWaters shared.
 
  • #654
I can imagine it would be a very heavy responsibility for sure, to be caught in the middle.

I’m a bit confused, if a No Contact order is granted against a noncustodial parent preventing communication with a child’s mother or grandmother with whom he lives.....yet the other parent has visitation rights....

That arrangement seems very unusual to me because it would place the burden solely on the teen in communicating and agreeing (or not) when, where and how he has contact with his father.

Does anyone know, is this typical?
I'm an American so not sure how Canadian social services would handle it. I would think though it would be preferable to have someone court-appointed, either a social worker or an attorney, or someone who was technically a neutral party to handle these arrangements. My brother and I ended up with our own court-appointed lawyer at the ages of 9 and 10 because of how nuclear my parents' divorce got.

I would think maybe whoever was supposed to supervise visitation would have been the best option for coordinating these issues and passing on any needed communication?

MOO

Maybe @Esprite would know with her background what the normal procedure would be?

Edited to add: maybe Bryer being a teen was the reason. Still it seems like having a buffer person would be better.
 
  • #655
But they had enough evidence to charge them more than 2 months ago. And strong evidence to link them to both crime scenes more than 7 weeks ago. The evidence had to have been tested by then to be so sure. 7 weeks is more than a few weeks. IMO

But yes, they can release whatever they want whenever they want, they know better than us. It's just a bit frustrating that they don't release what they have already (my problem not theirs, I know!)
My take on the RCMP delay in releasing info isn't about the quantity or validity of evidence gathered from crime scenes.

I think that the investigation has possibly unearthed evidence of connections to other criminal activity. I think RCMP might have to follow up on a king rat of digital evidence from K&B's clouds/drives/accounts/
histories/etc, as well as the question of the guns.

It's also possible that if there is evidence of further criminal activity/associations that RCMP already has an investigation underway into that, and this investigation has to be put on hold. (Or at least that happens on TV.)
 
  • #656
My take on the RCMP delay in releasing info isn't about the quantity or validity of evidence gathered from crime scenes.

I think that the investigation has possibly unearthed evidence of connections to other criminal activity. I think RCMP might have to follow up on a king rat of digital evidence from K&B's clouds/drives/accounts/
histories/etc, as well as the question of the guns.

It's also possible that if there is evidence of further criminal activity/associations that RCMP already has an investigation underway into that, and this investigation has to be put on hold. (Or at least that happens on TV.)

I'm not sure how things work in Canada, but I have read articles quoting the RCMP stating that the fact that there were four provinces involved makes it take longer to put together an all-inclusive report. Even though they were only briefly in the two of the provinces. Am I right or wrong about multi-province investigations taking longer?
 
  • #657
Is the age of emancipation in Canada 18 years of age? It is in the US, and after the 18th birthday a teen, even if they are still in high school, can make certain determinations on their own volition.
 
  • #658
Is the age of emancipation in Canada 18 years of age? It is in the US, and after the 18th birthday a teen, even if they are still in high school, can make certain determinations on their own volition.
My understanding is that in B.C., the full age of majority is 19. I can't figure out if that applies to everything or just some things. Maybe someone Canadian can chime in? But I was under the impression Alan would still be paying child support for him until he was 19. MOO
 
  • #659
Parental alienation often occurs in acrimonious divorces and BS's parents clearly had one hell of an acrimonious divorce. Of course, neither parent ever should disparage or bad mouth the other to the children involved; nor should they use said children or child as a messenger to the other. Unfortunately, this happens all too frequently. The "child" is the monkey in the middle and often is destroyed in the blame game process between the warring parents

As AS has been more than willing to blame his ex, BS's mother ("the Hex" as he fondly describes her in his get-rich-quick intended self-published 132 page book) for almost all of BS's problems, his actions, omissions, his tragic life and death, we know full-well that he was into the very destructive parental alienation game. While BS's mother has remained very quiet in her brief media communications, in my very humble opinion, she had to be playing her own part in the same destructive process. Am I allowed to say this? I can only point to the ongoing restraining orders, criminal charges etc. in support of this premise.

Lousy and horrible spouses can still be loving and supportive parents and no "child" should ever be urged or compelled to take sides against either parent. No, I am not a divorce or family law lawyer but I do speak the truth. One should never use a child of the unhappy marriage as a weapon or a foot soldier against the other parent.

AS is very vocal and loves pat phases such as one of his latest "failure to thrive" so blame Mommy, children's services, the social services, the RCMP, who ever provided the "boys" with "real firearms" and wheels etc. but do not blame me.

Sorry, all guys and girls on this website I have read with great interest and respect for all of your opinions and insights), I feel that some self retrospection and admission of responsibility or partial responsibility is required from the suspects' families. Thank you.
 
  • #660
My understanding is that in B.C., the full age of majority is 19. I can't figure out if that applies to everything or just some things. Maybe someone Canadian can chime in? But I was under the impression Alan would still be paying child support for him until he was 19. MOO

Yes in the province of BC the age of majority is under the age of 19. Each province has jurisdiction over such things as Family Law, age of majority involving drinking laws and driver’s licenses etc,

If you're under 19, your parents or guardians will handle the family law issues that involve you. If they can't agree on issues about your support or care, a judge might have to make decisions for them. This will always be done with your best interests in mind.”
Information for children & teens | LSS Family Law

But the Canadian Criminal Code with respect to criminal charges is applicable to anyone 18 and over throughout Canada.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
57
Guests online
722
Total visitors
779

Forum statistics

Threads
632,420
Messages
18,626,331
Members
243,147
Latest member
tibboi
Back
Top