Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[Zella]

Yes in the province of BC the age of majority is under the age of 19. Each province has jurisdiction over such things as Family Law, age of majority involving drinking laws and driver’s licenses etc,

“If you're under 19, your parents or guardians will handle the family law issues that involve you. If they can't agree on issues about your support or care, a judge might have to make decisions for them. This will always be done with your best interests in mind.”
Information for children & teens | LSS Family Law

But the Canadian Criminal Code with respect to criminal charges is applicable to anyone 18 and over throughout Canada.

That makes sense--thank you! That's why Bryer could be charged as an adult but wasn't technically an adult in other matters.

 

[katydid23]

I totally agree. People assume that the man they see is the man that he was before. My sister passed away when I was 11 (natural causes) and my mother became the shell of who she was. Emotionally unstable, accusing people of being responsible and making no sense. For months.

And she didn't have to deal with 1/100th of what Bryer's Dad is going through. And Bryer is the one dragged in the mud compared to Kam .

A.S. reactions needs to be seen as the reaction of a grieving father. JmO

Was the man before this tragedy, really that much different? I think he may have had grief from the divorce, and exhibited some very troubling behaviour in response.

It wasn't like he was a stable, solid father until this tragedy happened. He had issues then as well, IMO.

 

[zinny77]

Was the man before this tragedy, really that much different? I think he may have had grief from the divorce, and exhibited some very troubling behaviour in response.

It wasn't like he was a stable, solid father until this tragedy happened. He had issues then as well, IMO.

We can't know how he was. We can't even know if he talked about that book to Bryer.

But I don't think he was constantly rambling, dissing his ex and explaning himself as he does in the interviews. The drama and grief makes him act like that.

I think he had normal discussions with Bryer, too happy to finally have contact with his son. I don't think that Bryer would have so much of a relation with him if he did. JMO obviously. I have no proof.

 

[katydid23]

We can't know how he was. We can't even know if he talked about that book to Bryer.

But I don't think he was constantly rambling, dissing his ex and explaning himself as he does in the interviews. The drama and grief make him act like that.

I think he had normal discussions with Bryer, too happy to finally have his son with him. I don't think that Bryer would have so much of a relation with him if he did. JMO obviously. I have no proof.

We do have some clues. Wasn't he repeatedly charged with harassment and making criminal threats?

It takes a lot to be charged with criminal harassment in a divorce proceeding. That tells me he was very volatile and toxic, way before he experienced this most recent tragedy. JMO

 

[NJSleuth91]

Parental alienation often occurs in acrimonious divorces and BS's parents clearly had one hell of an acrimonious divorce. Of course, neither parent ever should disparage or bad mouth the other to the children involved; nor should they use said children or child as a messenger to the other. Unfortunately, this happens all too frequently. The "child" is the monkey in the middle and often is destroyed in the blame game process between the warring parents

As AS has been more than willing to blame his ex, BS's mother ("the Hex" as he fondly describes her in his get-rich-quick intended self-published 132 page book) for almost all of BS's problems, his actions, omissions, his tragic life and death, we know full-well that he was into the very destructive parental alienation game. While BS's mother has remained very quiet in her brief media communications, in my very humble opinion, she had to be playing her own part in the same destructive process. Am I allowed to say this? I can only point to the ongoing restraining orders, criminal charges etc. in support of this premise.

Lousy and horrible spouses can still be loving and supportive parents and no "child" should ever be urged or compelled to take sides against either parent. No, I am not a divorce or family law lawyer but I do speak the truth. One should never use a child of the unhappy marriage as a weapon or a foot soldier against the other parent.

AS is very vocal and loves pat phases such as one of his latest "failure to thrive" so blame Mommy, children's services, the social services, the RCMP, who ever provided the "boys" with "real firearms" and wheels etc. but do not blame me.

Sorry, all guys and girls on this website I have read with great interest and respect for all of your opinions and insights), I feel that some self retrospection and admission of responsibility or partial responsibility is required from the suspects' families. Thank you.

I do think that he had some good points in his interview which I talked about, such as:

*tons of signs were overlooked for years by many people

*Bryer was in the near-exclusive custody of his mom and grandma since age 5, and according to their own accounts, they never noticed any signs of him being troubled, which means he likely never got mental health treatment either (in fact I doubt he did since he was planning to join the army and he couldn't if he had a diagnosis of depression or something like that)

*he likely thinks the school could have done more to stop the bullying and make sure Bryer had the necessary resources to graduate

*Bryer's interest in militias and totalitarian regimes probably came more from his feelings of weakness and insecurity due to being bullied and having an unstable upbringing, than anything else (which I've been saying the entire time)

*it really was not great for the store selling Nazi memorabilia to be a block and a half away from the alternative school where troubled teenagers attended

*I think his gun comments are basically saying -- Bryer was clearly troubled and suicidal, even to the point of posting implicit suicide threats involving guns on social media, and is pretty much the poster child for someone who shouldn't have had access to firearms

But, I also do think -- and I've said this many, many times before -- that Alan himself also contributed to the situation that led to Bryer's mental state getting that bad. There are obvious, direct parallels between him getting arrested for -- according to his own account -- making Bryer's mom fear for her life, and Bryer just a few years later talking about killing his classmates (whether that was a joke, threat, or something in between). And the timing of the book vs. when the trip happened, seems like it would be a huge coincidence.

Now Alan supposedly has been diagnosed with a delusional disorder -- according to his own account -- so that raises the question of how much awareness or capacity he has about all this. I don't think he intended to hurt Bryer. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

We can't know how he was. We can't even know if he talked about that book to Bryer.

But I don't think he was constantly rambling, dissing his ex and explaning himself as he does in the interviews. The drama and grief make him act like that.

I think he had normal discussions with Bryer, too happy to finally have his son with him. I don't think that Bryer would have so much of a relation with him if he did. JMO obviously. I have no proof.

My impression is that Bryer had a pattern of bailing on any situation that made him uncomfortable. And his dad lived 2.5 hours away. If he didn't want to talk to him, he wouldn't have, or would have limited contact. According to his dad they talked almost every day, which seems pretty frequent to me for a teenager and a parent they don't live with -- I certainly didn't talk to my parents anywhere near that much when I was away at college. Either Bryer wasn't bothered by those discussions or -- more likely IMO -- it wasn't a frequent topic of discussion at the time.

 

[SovereignSnake]

He didn't have a Canadian gun licence. He didn't have a NSW gun licence, or a VIC gun licence or a QLD gun licence. He had no record of owning guns in NSW, VIC or QLD. This is on the record. He has no record of even applying for a gun licence in Canada, and that is a matter for Ottowa, since he was a tourist on a working visa, for 12 months.

A working visa requires a background check from Ottawa, to NSW ( his place of residence ) and they are so rarely issued to tourists as to be almost negligible. Had he applied for one, there would be a record on the NSW gun licence register, as a query from Ottawa and there is not .

I am 10 years older than Lucas and bought up not 10 klms away from where he was, I still live right here, on the North Shore of Sydney, NSW, where it is nearly 10aM Sunday morning, and I can assure you that travelling Australians simply do not carry guns, as our passports which are our ticket off and away depend almost entirely on keeping on the right side of Border officers in any country. You say 'we' don't know, but I actually do know what AU travelers do, being one myself. And having lived for some years in Canada doing post graduate work at York Uni I understand a bit about the workings of Ottawa, also.

It just isn't a thing. One doesn't travel, and particularly as Lucas was, in the long term carrying weaponry. His background would preclude it in Australia, and even more so in Canada.

I don't mean to be disrespectful either, but some people know some things and some people know other things, and it isn't a competition here.

@Trooper I respect your position as an Australian Citizen and your insights into the logistics Lucas likely went through to work abroad but let us not forget he was working on a cattle ranch in Northern British Columbia. That's a far cry from any corporate, clean cut, white collar existence or even academic pursuits abroad in a gorgeous city in French Canada. Cattle ranching is a roughneck world. From what I've read, he had been working on this ranch since just after Christmas 2018. Perhaps January or February of 2019. That put him up there for at least 6-7 months. We don't know what kind of people he met while working on this ranch. Then Chynna came up and they were to spend a week on the ranch before hitting the road together. There can still remain a possibility (again, speculating) that just before they departed a friend of his at the ranch said; "Here, before you go, take this (a gun) you may not need it, but just in case." It's simply another possibility in the hundreds of different things that could have transpired during this whole ordeal. You have every right to project what you would do or what other Australians would or would not do abroad just like I can make claims what other Americans would or would not do in a similar situation. Everyone has free will and we can never tuly predict anyone's behavior. We may never know what actually happened or what he did during his time up there on the ranch or in the hours before he and Chynna set out. I do maintain hope however, when the final report comes out we will have a conclusive answer to where these guns came from. It's yet another element of this story all of us are dying to know.

 

[Trooper]

We do have some clues. Wasn't he repeatedly charged with harassment and making criminal threats?

It takes a lot to be charged with criminal harassment in a divorce proceeding. That tells me he was very volatile and toxic, way before he experienced this most recent tragedy. JMO

Canada is currently a leading research benchmark for custody matters, family court stuff, since they put out a report early in 2019. One of the conclusions, backed up by stats is, that 97% of Canadian men get shared custody, …. 3% are barred from contact for a certain amount of time, and some of that time is on the condition that the non custodial father seeks and receives treatment of a ( I presume ) psychiatric nature, with various times designated to review the decision.

That is very few, regardless of how vocal and loud they are, creating organisations ( like A has done ) marching, protesting, etc..

Just the fact that this mother had to traipse off to the court to get A to give her a break and get on with it .. and it was granted, signifies real problems, not with the kid, not with the mother but with the non custodial parent. In this case, A.

So I agree with your claims there, in spades. My sympathies lie solely with this haunted mother, with A taking all the oxygen about grief and wrongs done …. Although, I get the distinct impression he now wants a bit of backup from Mr McLeod, in the matter of the guns. I don't think he is going to get that.

He reminds me of those poor Japanese soldiers, told never to surrender , who carried on the war from outlying atolls across the Pacific for 20 years after the capitulation of Hirohito. ( Finally , to be extracted by the Americans broadcasting the sounds of a baby crying for hours, which did the trick ) … A hasn't realized the war is over, the territory he was fighting over is no more. And Bryer did appear to be territory to A, that was blindingly obvious.

 

[Trooper]

@Trooper I respect your position as an Australian Citizen and your insights into the logistics Lucas likely went through to work abroad but let us not forget he was working on a cattle ranch in Northern British Columbia. That's a far cry from any corporate, clean cut, white collar existence or even academic pursuits abroad in a gorgeous city in French Canada. Cattle ranching is a roughneck world. From what I've read, he had been working on this ranch since just after Christmas 2018. Perhaps January or February of 2019. That put him up there for at least 6-7 months. We don't know what kind of people he met while working on this ranch. Then Chynna came up and they were to spend a week on the ranch before hitting the road together. There can still remain a possibility (again, speculating) that just before they departed a friend of his at the ranch said; "Here, before you go, take this (a gun) you may not need it, but just in case." It's simply another possibility in the hundreds of different things that could have transpired during this whole ordeal. You have every right to project what you would do or what other Australians would or would not do abroad just like I can make claims what other Americans would or would not do in a similar situation. Everyone has free will and we can never tuly predict anyone's behavior. We may never know what actually happened or what he did during his time up there on the ranch or in the hours before he and Chynna set out. I do maintain hope however, when the final report comes out we will have a conclusive answer to where these guns came from. It's yet another element of this story all of us are dying to know.

Sure, but he got his experience in cattle ranching on AU cattle stations, some of the biggest in the world, and some of the remotest . Most are the size of Wales , at the very least. Rough places, and some of the most unforgiving terrain in all the world.

There are some places in Brazil, equally grim. ..He worked 2 stations there, for nearly 14 months. Most Brazilians would find that hard.

He was not inexperienced in the slightest degree.. In fact, BC would have been a doddle in comparison... so green!, water !.. grass!.... grass by the roadside!...

Risking his entire life time choice to carry a gun in Canada, hardly likely. He didn't feel the need to be armed in Croatia, because he never mentioned carrying a gun there, according to his father, or anywhere else, and out side Dubrovnik it can get really hairy, as I know from experience.

 

[srper2]

I was surprised during AS’s last interview when he flat out stated “You wanna lay blame? Find out where those guns come from.”

Nobody forced B or K to shoot innocent strangers on the side of the road, regardless of the source of the guns.
I agree, AS should not be giving interviews but I’m beginning to wonder if the level of hostility and anger he exhibits is a constant, “normal” state.

I don’t think he’s ready to hear the final police report. He’s a wild card as police are not able to predict his reaction. JMO

There has been no evidence and only wild speculation to prove they killed anybody to date. The only evidence they were involved in the death of LD is that they were driving his car. No evidence provided regarding why they were suspects in the other murders. Maybe AS was referring to the fact that, according to the police, they used guns for suicide and if they didn't have those guns maybe they would still be alive.

 

[srper2]

Let’s remember there’s other family members connected to both suspects as well. AS does not hold the copyright on grief nor is it a public expectation for family members of accused murderers to appear before the media just to prove how their lives have suddenly been torn apart and turned upside down.

Unfortunately, the media is preying on a most vulnerable, shocked and grieving father. Making cruel assumptions and scathing judgements here about a grieving father and his son could be viewed as even worse that the media vultures actions. Remember this is a public forum. I can't imagine how upset I would be if I was in the position of any of the family members and read some of the uninformed critical and judgemental attitudes dumped on this thread. My own opinion of course.

 

[musicaljoke]

@Trooper ... There can still remain a possibility (again, speculating) that just before they departed a friend of his at the ranch said; "Here, before you go, take this (a gun) you may not need it, but just in case." It's simply another possibility in the hundreds of different things that could have transpired during this whole ordeal. You have every right to project what you would do or what oth.

This scenerio is extremely unlikely. If you are from a culture where carrying a gun for personal protection is normal, then I suppose it's difficult to understand all the reasons why borrowing a gun to take on a road trip into BC would not likely happen. Gosh, what can I say to convince you that there are strong reasons why this did not likely happen. I am pretty sure LF would know and abide by the federal gun regulations.

 

[Trooper]

This scenerio is extremely unlikely. If you are from a culture where carrying a gun for personal protection is normal, then I suppose it's difficult to understand all the reasons why borrowing a gun to take on a road trip into BC would not likely happen. Gosh, what can I say to convince you that there are strong reasons why this did not likely happen. I am pretty sure LF would know and abide by the federal gun regulations.

I know! … next thing it will be proposed that Lucas and Chynna held up Kam and Bry and ruffed them up a bit so Kam and Bry had to defend themselves and had to shoot 'em…. That is how remote the possibility of Lucas Fowler carrying an unlicensed, or for that matter, licensed weapon anywhere in the world.

 

[srper2]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Someone responding to the article on Twitter brought up a very good point in that "whackjobs" email government officials all the time, why are 12 people's emails in a country of 37 million, a story?

Those emails seem like they're from a few backseat driver types that have no idea how things work in policing. For example, comparing military to assistance in foreign disaster areas and how/when they were deployed during this manhunt, just proves the person is ignorant about policing, how searches are conducted in this country and has an axe to grind. Same as the person who wants Goodale fired and for this to become an election issue.

Who's willing to bet that the people emailing the PMO thought that the RCMP were wasting their time up in Gillam because the suspects had fled long ago?

Maybe some of them are from community leaders relaying the worries of their communities regarding concerns for safety etc., given that there has been no real confirmation that the murderer of CD and LF has truly been found.

 

[Trooper]

Unfortunately, the media is preying on a most vulnerable, shocked and grieving father. Making cruel assumptions and scathing judgements here about a grieving father and his son could be viewed as even worse that the media vultures actions. Remember this is a public forum. I can't imagine how upset I would be if I was in the position of any of the family members and read some of the uninformed critical and judgemental attitudes dumped on this thread. My own opinion of course.

This grieving father is making scathing and scurrilous comments persistently, even to the point of self publishing a 'book' about another grieving parent, the mother.,.. . remember,, this is a public forum, and a mother's grief should also be respected. In my own opinion, naturally.

 

[Trooper]

There has been no evidence and only wild speculation to prove they killed anybody to date. The only evidence they were involved in the death of LD is that they were driving his car. No evidence provided regarding why they were suspects in the other murders. Maybe AS was referring to the fact that, according to the police, they used guns for suicide.

Then when it's all over and done with, and the RCMP are rightly castigated for calling up an ALL CANADA BOLO ( Be On The Alert) for, on the basis of a 'wild speculation', requiring mega equipment, personnel , even the services of some military equipment , only to find the two being searched for dead and done with, then, we can all start sleuthing for the 'real killers'....

 

[srper2]

This scenerio is extremely unlikely. If you are from a culture where carrying a gun for personal protection is normal, then I suppose it's difficult to understand all the reasons why borrowing a gun to take on a road trip into BC would not likely happen. Gosh, what can I say to convince you that there are strong reasons why this did not likely happen. I am pretty sure LF would know and abide by the federal gun regulations.

Nobody knows if LF had a gun license and knew how to use a gun. It is simply speculating to automatically assume he did or did not, given he worked on a ranch and had also worked numerous other places. If he did or did not have a gun does not matter, as he was murdered in cold blood.

 

[srper2]

The forum has slid into an obsessive, judgment filled rant and slanging match about AS and his son BS. Imaginations going wild while tearing down every tiny aspect of their lives and characters just because people have nothing better to do. I certainly hope that the video is never publicised to be picked apart in the same manner. I hope the victims' families get to see any relevant parts of the video left by AS and KM, but only after police produce definitive evidence they were the murderers. If not, then a statement confirming there was not enough evidence to show they were the murderers of CD and LF and stating the investigation will continue. In regard to the murder of LD, at least an indication if it was a deliberate killing or possibly accidental death. My own opinions of course, and edited to remove some of my own rantings!

 

[Trooper]

Nobody knows if LF had a gun license and knew how to use a gun. It is simply speculating to automatically assume he did not, given he worked on a ranch and had also worked numerous other places. If he did or did not have a gun does not matter, as he was murdered in cold blood.

Sorry, a little error there,, the NSW Gun Registration list knows he didn't have a gun licence, and they also know that the Gun Register of Canada in Ottowa didn't send a query to the NSW office in respect of a gun licence for Lucas Fowler of Terrey Hills. Didn't happen. No request was received from the Consulate of AU in Vancouver, either, and none from the office of the Trade Delegation AU in Winnipeg for a gun licence to be issued.

So.. we actually DO know that Lucas Fowler didn't have a gun licence. Anywhere. AU, Canada, Patagonia, Brazil, Peru, and so on.

 

[Trooper]

The forum has slid into a creepy, obsessive, judgment filled rant and slanging match about AS and his son BS. Imaginations going wild while tearing down every tiny aspect of their lives and characters just because people have nothing better to do. I certainly hope that the video is never publicised to be picked apart in the same manner. I hope the victims' families get to see any relevant parts of the video left by AS and KM, but only after police produce definitive evidence they were the murderers. My own opinions of course, and edited to remove some of my own rantings!

This is the terrible by product of crime. Any crime. One's privacy is invaded.

Crime is a public act , in the negative. The investigation of it, the accusation of it, the trial of it, the conviction of it. All a matter of public interest and all paid for by the public.

Nothing is more invasive to family privacy than a murder, either of the perpetrator, or the victim, and it has to be said, the victim's invasion of privacy is the most horrendous.. It is truly bizarre to be arguing about if the victim , for petes sake , carried a gun, when days after the murder, the perpetrators are seen without the slightest scratch or mark on them. Not the tiniest scar.

Nobody questions if Miss Deese had firearms, and she could have bought one from her local WalMart. She comes from open carry country. But the idea of her carting one across the border is simply not the remotest possibility either.

And some people seek publicity. AS, as an example. It is therefore fair game to comment, and it isn't obligatory to be accepting of everything he says. Mr and Mrs McLeod, and the mother of Bryer have, wisely one could say, decided to remain privately enconsed.

Murder is an horrific act, and the repercussions never cease.

 

[Schmoosh]

Yes in the province of BC the age of majority is under the age of 19. Each province has jurisdiction over such things as Family Law, age of majority involving drinking laws and driver’s licenses etc,

“If you're under 19, your parents or guardians will handle the family law issues that involve you. If they can't agree on issues about your support or care, a judge might have to make decisions for them. This will always be done with your best interests in mind.”
Information for children & teens | LSS Family Law

But the Canadian Criminal Code with respect to criminal charges is applicable to anyone 18 and over throughout Canada.

The Canadian Criminal Code is applicable to anyone 12 or older.