Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[srper2]

DBM

 

[srper2]

Not at all.
It is professional courtesy. Investigators work with each other from other countries quite often.

Even if he wasn't the father, they might speak to him about the case as a professional exchange between other precincts.

It is a brotherhood. JMO

I feel that providing information about evidence to one victims family member while not telling other victims family members if the same evidence also directly involved their deceased loved one/s would be unethical, most probably against protocols and possibly illegal. MOO!

 

[srper2]

I'm not sure where you got the impression that RCMP "spit in the face" of CD and LD families (assuming by nondisclosure).

If not for statements by both LF and CD's family, we would not be aware of their cause of death (media followed after their statements).

Although leaked by another source that LD was shot, his family obviously learned this from RCMP --but did not wish to speak.

MOO

Do you have the link to the report that LD was shot? I haven't seen this before?

 

[ktm44]

Where did you read that only crazies email government officials? I don't think I read that anywhere, only that they often do, and that they're often ill informed or have an agenda. The original article was poorly written, and definitely indicated that a few ill informed people emailed the PMO.

In the emails included in the original article, it's clear that some of the people have no idea how things actually work. The person accusing Goodale of not getting the military involved soon enough for example, suggesting that the military helps in foreign aid, but not Canadians. That's a ridiculous and ignorant accusation to make, especially since they've been sent out helping across the country, countless times in floods and other natural disasters. Any Canadian who watches the news would know that. Like I said before, it came from someone with an axe to grind.

On another note, I'm surprised at how little that Peter German knew. He questioned the RCMP's tactics without realizing that they were using their own helicopters, drones etc

He is no longer with the RCMP and hasn't for quite some time and would have no working knowledge of this or any other investigation. It just looks nice when the media can quote a 'expert'. He was Deputy Commissionerwith the RCMP just over a year before he moved on to a regional position with Corrections Canada.

I was curious about his current position and how it may provide inside knowledge and he seems to have his own company in BC, working on criminal and civil matters, which oddly enough has no website, no published phone number or contact information.

 

[ktm44]

I feel that providing information about evidence to one victims family member while not telling other victims family members if the same evidence also directly involved their deceased loved one/s would be unethical, most probably against protocols and possibly illegal. MOO!

I would be surprised if Mr Fowler has received direct inside informtation but he may have benefitted from his inside knowledge and perhaps more direct comments. Where other families may have been told that RCMP are waiting on further lab reports, Mr Fowler may have been told which lab reports RCMP are waiting on.

The Fowler family will not benefit from premature speculation if facts are not established but because if his investigative experience, he would be in a position to ask specific questions about forensic testing and evidence and draw conclusions that someone outside policing could not.

 

[katydid23]

I would be surprised if Mr Fowler has received direct inside informtation but he may have benefitted from his inside knowledge and perhaps more direct comments. Where other families may have been told that RCMP are waiting on further lab reports, Mr Fowler may have been told which lab reports RCMP are waiting on.

The Fowler family will not benefit from premature speculation if facts are not established but because if his investigative experience, he would be in a position to ask specific questions about forensic testing and evidence and draw conclusions that someone outside policing could not.

Exactly.

As an example of what I was trying to explain:

When my granddaughter was an infant, she required a sudden surgery. When my husband and I arrived at the hospital, the surgeon came and spoke to us and assured us and allowed us to ask questions.
Then the other grandparents arrived and they had their brother, a retired surgeon with them. The attending surgeon came back in the room to speak to them, and it was a much longer conversation, with more information given to them.

Was that unfair to us? NO. It was just that the surgeon was more able to communicate that extra info to another surgeon, and there were more questions between them as they had a deeper shared knowledge.

I have no doubt that Inspector Fowler would be able to communicate with the RCMP inspectors in a way that would encourage more depth to their conversation. They would be speaking the same language and it is natural that Fowler would want to know as much as possible about this tragic case. JMO

 

[SovereignSnake]

Did Bryer actually show these neighbor kids a photo of him wearing a Swastika arm band or had their friendship fizzled by that point? I feel like that was completely taken out of context by the media based on the photos of the arm band and Hitler Youth knife which surfaced. (Also, for what it's worth, I know several people who own one of those knives or various memorabilia because they're historical collectors, not because they have Third Reich fantasies.) Theses people have never made me feel uncomfortable but I respect their position from a historical standpoint and that kind of stuff isn't going to make me feel threatened. If anything it inspired intrigue and; "Ah, tell me more." The point is, is there are various avenues that could have lead Bryer to purchase these items. Sure, he was young and could have had some really weird fantasies, but as he grew older he could have appreciated their historical significance and kept them in say a display case. If the stuff he had was authentic I was actually quite surprised to read he was taking his knife on camping trips. Or so was reported by one of their "friends" when he went camping with Kam and Bryer. I would also really like to know when that photo of the arm band and knife was taken? For some reason my intuition kept saying age 16-17. I just can't for the life of me picture an 11-13 year old boy obtaining German WWII memorabilia much less understanding what it is and what it meant. Sure, they could have encountered Swastikas in numerous games, but I still doubt those young of kids would understand the scope or the cultural bearing. The neighbor to Bryer's Grandma gives me the impression that her kids and Bryer had already parted ways years prior. It's possible, but something about this sounds a bit misremembered and sensationalized. Also, at that age wouldn't it have made more sense that someone else purchased that stuff for Bryer? That kind of war memorabilia is highly coveted and is not cheap (if it's authentic.) I remember several years ago I was on trip in Kyiv, Ukraine and one afternoon I was strolling down "Andriyivskyy Descent" and there were (among many, many other items) Iron Crosses galore for sale but they were outrageously expensive. Even in "Hryvnia" (Ukraine's Currency.)

 

[NJSleuth91]

@SovereignSnake

I believe I read that they were not authentic, but replicas. Also I read in some article that what happened is he posted a swastika on social media a few years ago? But then also apparently he showed the armband to people and was even reported as wearing it on a camping trip.

Also, apparently he would openly praise Hitler and the Nazi regime as well, from the age of 11 onwards. As well as the Azov Battalion. So I don't think it was just a historical interest. I do think his interest in those ideologies was more of a metaphorical thing than an ideological thing as I've said many times (as it usually is with these emotionally disturbed teenagers). And I doubt those ideologies had anything to do with the murders.

 

[copkid]

Do you have the link to the report that LD was shot? I haven't seen this before?

Link is in Thread #14 post #28....reported by Australian MSM.

 

[Runningforthewind]

There is a lot of things people aren't taking into consideration. It isn't known when these two even left Port Alberni. It could have been anywhere from early morning to mid-afternoon. It's 1 1/2 hour drive, not including possible delays going through a provincial park. It's summertime, so a lot of traffic going through. Then once they get to the ferry terminal in Nanaimo, there are more delays. A truck and camper would classify them as oversized so there would only be limited spots on the ferry that they would fit. Then keep in mind it's summertime, a Friday when people are leaving the island to go home or on vacation. So they likely had to wait for 1 to 2 sailing times which are 1 1/2 hours each. So it's likely they might have to wait 3 hours before even getting on the ferry. Add in the ferry time. They would have just been getting into Vancouver by supper time.

They'd likely stop for something to eat, gas up, and plan where they were going to stay the night. That'd probably take another hour or two. Factor in Vancouver traffic. It's hectic during supper rush, and to drive across the city to Hope, BC which is really the point, to the many possible routes they could have taken up north. That'd be another couple hours there. By this time it's the end of the day.

They were driving a truck, which I looked up and has the terrible fuel economy. Probably need to fill up every 300 kilometres are so. They'd likely stop for gas, bathroom break, and a snack every 3 hours. That adds on 1/2 hour minimum each time. They are tall guys. Kam is 6'4 and I'd estimate Bryer even an inch or two taller then Kam at 6'6. They'd likely make several stops to just stretch. Add in that they were travelling with a camper trailer, which in its self is heavy, so I doubt they were speeding or going excessively fast. I'd say they likely only driven no more than 800km to 900km on the 13th. On the fourteenth, it's possible they could have driven upward to 1000 kilometres all snack breaks, stopping for the gas, bathroom breaks, and stretching they might have reached Junction 37 Services, which is really the point that makes the most sense. It is a direct route to Whitehorse one direction, or Alberta the other. It would have likely been late at night if they had driven all that way. But I have a feeling that they stopped a couple of hours earlier and drove the rest of the way on the fifteenth. I think considering they were seen on July 18th in Jade City which is a direct route from Whitehorse. They are more likely to have driven to Whitehorse. I had looked up the job market in Whitehorse and there isn't a lot there for unskilled workers so they left.

 

[zinny77]

@SovereignSnake

I believe I read that they were not authentic, but replicas. Also I read in some article that what happened is he posted a swastika on social media a few years ago? But then also apparently he showed the armband to people and was even reported as wearing it on a camping trip.

Also, apparently he would openly praise Hitler and the Nazi regime as well, from the age of 11 onwards. As well as the Azov Battalion. So I don't think it was just a historical interest. I do think his interest in those ideologies was more of a metaphorical thing than an ideological thing as I've said many times (as it usually is with these emotionally disturbed teenagers). And I doubt those ideologies had anything to do with the murders.

I know I am gonna sound like I refuse to see the obvious, but I think the incidents refering Hitler are too sparse to show a fascination for Hitler. JMO.

Has anybody seen with their own eyes anything on his Facebook, Instagram or Steam anything related to Hitler or antisemitic/racist? Some people looked at it when he was just missing.

The people who knew him in real life never mentioned anything about him talking about Hitler.

I tend to take the anonymous stories in the media with a pinch of salt. They could be false, exagerated or taken out of context. The media wanted dirt, they got it, even if they had to find that one girl who had that one story that might be a joke from 5 years ago.

I am on the fence for the snorting ritalin in the wood with a nazi armband. Like really, everybody was just like "K, Brybry, you do you, I don't think it's suspicious". And it's the only story that intense that came out. JMO again

I think Bryer was an idiot who didn't realise that Hitler is not cool because he spent so much time gaming and talking to people who said that Hitler was cool. That would be why he would send a picture to someone. To impress them. I don't think he was ranting about Hitler, hurting the ears of a bunch of innocent people who were just trying to help him find Jesus. There has to have been a lot of sketchy talk going on. IMO.

Had he been that obsessed about Hitler, there would have been way more evidence. JMO

Obviously, we might learn later that he was indeed obsessed with Hitler and I am the idiot in denial

 

[Runningforthewind]

Had he been that obsessed about Hitler, there would have been way more evidence. JMO

Obviously, we might learn later that he was indeed obsessed with Hitler and I am the idiot in denial

If no one in his real life claimed he had an obsession with Hitler or Nazi, then it's likely he was just trying to fit in with his online friends.

 

[Moriarty]

Has anybody seen with their own eyes anything on his Facebook, Instagram or Steam anything related to Hitler or antisemitic/racist

For what it's worth, Bryer used the 'wolfsangel' symbol of the Azov Battalion as his icon on Steam. This symbol was first used by the Nazi Party as a symbol and was then used by SS units in WWII.

 

[CinNC]

Did Bryer actually show these neighbor kids a photo of him wearing a Swastika arm band or had their friendship fizzled by that point? I feel like that was completely taken out of context by the media based on the photos of the arm band and Hitler Youth knife which surfaced.

SBM

Not a reaction to your post specifically, but I fear almost everything has been taken out of context. There are so few, disconnected facts and entire stories and narratives are being built upon them. JMO

 

[zinny77]

For what it's worth, Bryer used the 'wolfsangel' symbol of the Azov Battalion as his icon on Steam. This symbol was first used by the Nazi Party as a symbol and was then used by SS units in WWII.

That's me corrected then. Thanks for the info.

But could it be related to the games he was playing? Did his friends have the same kind of questionable icons? Is there another meaning to the image? (Sorry, I know nothing about gaming, I am lame).

I guess it could still be part of "trying to fit/be edgy" in the gaming community

 

[NJSleuth91]

I know I am gonna sound like I refuse to see the obvious, but I think the incidents refering Hitler are too sparse to show a fascination for Hitler. JMO.

I don't know about that. A lot of people talked about it, both people who knew him online and IRL, and specifically said he praised Hitler.

Has anybody seen with their own eyes anything on his Facebook, Instagram or Steam anything related to Hitler or antisemitic/racist? Some people looked at it when he was just missing.

On Steam he had the Azov Battalion picture and also one of his usernames referenced a white supremacist group. Of course, we don't know what percent of that was serious or joking (my guess is, it was a combination of the two -- it generally tends to be that way with these kinds of people). We also know he sent the Nazi knife and armband photos to his friends on Steam. But we don't know if those were friends he knew IRL or not. There wasn't much content of any kind publicly visible on his Facebook (you can view it on the Wayback Machine -- it was archived July 24th and 25th). I also would like to know what was on his Instagram but I think if there was obviously Nazi stuff the media would have reposted it. But his Instagram did have a photo of him with a gun in his mouth so clearly all was not right there.

The people who knew him in real life never mentioned anything about him talking about Hitler.

Um...yes they did. Many of them. Go back and read the articles. His own dad said that he got "really excited" after seeing Nazi memorabilia in a store, to the point that his dad had to drag him out of the store and give him a stern talking-to.

I am on the fence for the snorting ritalin in the wood with a nazi armband. Like really, everybody was just like "K, Brybry, you do you, I don't think it's suspicious". And it's the only story that intense that came out. JMO again

Yes and it happened a couple of months before this trip. Which could show a downward spiral in his mental state (and Kam's, since Kam was apparently fine with this happening). Or, who knows, it could have been some really elaborate attempt at trolling...I wouldn't put it past them. Or a combination of the two. We really don't know.

But the guy who said that, who was clearly someone who knew them IRL, and knew them well enough to be invited on a camping trip with them, so I imagine they were decently good friends, said that he wasn't that surprised Bryer would go on a killing spree, because he was "f***ed up in the mind." So I think he was disturbed by it at the time. But what are you going to do when you're stuck in the middle of the woods with a 6'4"+ emotionally disturbed teenager dressed in Nazi regalia, snorting Ritalin, and armed with a knife...you're going to go along with it, pretend it's not a big deal, and try to find a way to politely extricate yourself from the situation and probably avoid hanging out with them in the future. You're not going to turn it into a conflict because obviously you're dealing with an unstable person.

I think Bryer was an idiot who didn't realise that Hitler is not cool because he spent so much time gaming and talking to people who said that Hitler was cool. That would be why he would send a picture to someone. To impress them. I don't think he was ranting about Hitler, hurting the ears of a bunch of innocent people who were just trying to help him find Jesus. There has to have been a lot of sketchy talk going on. IMO.

If you get to the age of 19 and through compulsory education without realizing Hitler isn't cool...I have no words. And I'm sure there was a lot of jokes about Hitler going on, and possibly even sketchy talk. But I don't see how that indicates that his interest in Hitler wasn't "real." In fact that makes it more likely that it was, IMO.

Had he been that obsessed about Hitler, there would have been way more evidence. JMO

There's quite a bit of evidence.

My take on it: part of it was a joke and trying to be edgy. Part of it was a dumb, lost, depressed teenager aligning themselves with the concept of strong totalitarian regimes to build up a "tough" and traditionally masculine image of themselves (in contrast to their weak, bullied, abused reality) and to indicate that they wanted some kind of structure or direction in their life.

 

[Satchie]

There is a lot of things people aren't taking into consideration. It isn't known when these two even left Port Alberni. It could have been anywhere from early morning to mid-afternoon. It's 1 1/2 hour drive, not including possible delays going through a provincial park. It's summertime, so a lot of traffic going through. Then once they get to the ferry terminal in Nanaimo, there are more delays. A truck and camper would classify them as oversized so there would only be limited spots on the ferry that they would fit. Then keep in mind it's summertime, a Friday when people are leaving the island to go home or on vacation. So they likely had to wait for 1 to 2 sailing times which are 1 1/2 hours each. So it's likely they might have to wait 3 hours before even getting on the ferry. Add in the ferry time. They would have just been getting into Vancouver by supper time.

They'd likely stop for something to eat, gas up, and plan where they were going to stay the night. That'd probably take another hour or two. Factor in Vancouver traffic. It's hectic during supper rush, and to drive across the city to Hope, BC which is really the point, to the many possible routes they could have taken up north. That'd be another couple hours there. By this time it's the end of the day.

They were driving a truck, which I looked up and has the terrible fuel economy. Probably need to fill up every 300 kilometres are so. They'd likely stop for gas, bathroom break, and a snack every 3 hours. That adds on 1/2 hour minimum each time. They are tall guys. Kam is 6'4 and I'd estimate Bryer even an inch or two taller then Kam at 6'6. They'd likely make several stops to just stretch. Add in that they were travelling with a camper trailer, which in its self is heavy, so I doubt they were speeding or going excessively fast. I'd say they likely only driven no more than 800km to 900km on the 13th. On the fourteenth, it's possible they could have driven upward to 1000 kilometres all snack breaks, stopping for the gas, bathroom breaks, and stretching they might have reached Junction 37 Services, which is really the point that makes the most sense. It is a direct route to Whitehorse one direction, or Alberta the other. It would have likely been late at night if they had driven all that way. But I have a feeling that they stopped a couple of hours earlier and drove the rest of the way on the fifteenth. I think considering they were seen on July 18th in Jade City which is a direct route from Whitehorse. They are more likely to have driven to Whitehorse. I had looked up the job market in Whitehorse and there isn't a lot there for unskilled workers so they left.

I bet police are trying to trace their exacts movements along those lines, possibly with the assistance of the phones, but also whatever footage they can locate: for eg, they'd definitely know which ferry they took, and there must be key highway cams so they can pinpoint which route and then try to track where they stayed overnight. That would be a very time-consuming task. They may also have witnesses who've come forward but haven't spoken to the media.

I was wondering whether the truck was diesel, it would save gas money. How much money they had and spent would be another question police would be looking at, IMO.

 

[katydid23]

That's me corrected then. Thanks for the info.

But could it be related to the games he was playing? Did his friends have the same kind of questionable icons? Is there another meaning to the image? (Sorry, I know nothing about gaming, I am lame).

I guess it could still be part of "trying to fit/be edgy" in the gaming community

One does not need to be a Nazi to try and fit into the gaming community.

He wasn't trying to fit in, in my opinion. He was trying to be shocking and rebellious. JMO

 

[zinny77]

I don't know about that. A lot of people talked about it, both people who knew him online and IRL, and specifically said he praised Hitler.



On Steam he had the Azov Battalion picture and also one of his usernames referenced a white supremacist group. Of course, we don't know what percent of that was serious or joking (my guess is, it was a combination of the two -- it generally tends to be that way with these kinds of people). We also know he sent the Nazi knife and armband photos to his friends on Steam. But we don't know if those were friends he knew IRL or not. There wasn't much content of any kind publicly visible on his Facebook (you can view it on the Wayback Machine -- it was archived July 24th and 25th). I also would like to know what was on his Instagram but I think if there was obviously Nazi stuff the media would have reposted it. But his Instagram did have a photo of him with a gun in his mouth so clearly all was not right there.



Um...yes they did. Many of them. Go back and read the articles. His own dad said that he got "really excited" after seeing Nazi memorabilia in a store, to the point that his dad had to drag him out of the store and give him a stern talking-to.



Yes and it happened a couple of months before this trip. Which could show a downward spiral in his mental state (and Kam's, since Kam was apparently fine with this happening). Or, who knows, it could have been some really elaborate attempt at trolling...I wouldn't put it past them. Or a combination of the two. We really don't know.

But the guy who said that, who was clearly someone who knew them IRL, and knew them well enough to be invited on a camping trip with them, so I imagine they were decently good friends, said that he wasn't that surprised Bryer would go on a killing spree, because he was "f***ed up in the mind." So I think he was disturbed by it at the time. But what are you going to do when you're stuck in the middle of the woods with a 6'4"+ emotionally disturbed teenager dressed in Nazi regalia, snorting Ritalin, and armed with a knife...you're going to go along with it, pretend it's not a big deal, and try to find a way to politely extricate yourself from the situation and probably avoid hanging out with them in the future. You're not going to turn it into a conflict because obviously you're dealing with an unstable person.



If you get to the age of 19 and through compulsory education without realizing Hitler isn't cool...I have no words. And I'm sure there was a lot of jokes about Hitler going on, and possibly even sketchy talk. But I don't see how that indicates that his interest in Hitler wasn't "real." In fact that makes it more likely that it was, IMO.



There's quite a bit of evidence.

My take on it: part of it was a joke and trying to be edgy. Part of it was a dumb, lost, depressed teenager aligning themselves with the concept of strong totalitarian regimes to build up a "tough" and traditionally masculine image of themselves (in contrast to their weak, bullied, abused reality) and to indicate that they wanted some kind of structure or direction in their life.

I'll have to reread the articles indeed because except his dad, I don't remember plenty of people who knew him in real life who mentioned anything (not one actually). Only people on steam who said he seemed to be joking.

I am not saying he never took or sent any pictures of nazi stuff. I just think that it was part of being edgy on steam, taken out of context, not a dark obsession with Hitler. But again. JMO.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I'll have to reread the articles indeed because except his dad, I don't remember plenty of people who know him in real life who mentioned anything (not one actually). Only people on steam who said he seemed to be joking.

I am not saying he never took or sent any pictures of nazi stuff. I just think that it was part of being edgy on steam, taken out of context, not a dark obsession with Hitler. But again. JMO.

And I think it was a combination of the two, as I said. There definitely seems to be some degree of genuine interest there.