Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[NJSleuth91]

I believe AS was homeless then as well.

SBM

He wasn't homeless until 2017 (60 Minutes interview said he had been homeless for two years). Bryer lived with him in 2016.

 

[Optics]

It's totally 50/50 on who shot Leonard but I'm going to say it was Bryer.

What's your theory that Bryer shot Leonard?

 

[Trooper]

Bryers Mother did speak out. She put out a written plea, which may have been the very best and most she could do. And that is the only public appearance she has made, all other publicity about her is what Al moans about at the drop of a hat, the classic undermining alienating non custodial parent, who shows not a skerrick of parental ability or capacity and only cuts the ground out from the custodial parent dealing with a young psychopath, which is what we all know now he was!

We all know Bryer was a psychopath because we see the bodies on the side of the highway, and we are obligated to match them to Bryer's actions.

Bryer didn't turn into one at some magical age. He was one, all along.

Nothing harder to live with than that.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

What's your theory that Bryer shot Leonard?

I also believe Bryer was likely the one who shot Leonard. I remember back to the witness who said a man came out of the passenger seat of a truck. I think if that sighting was them, that it was likely Bryer then because I do believe Bryer was always the passanger in the truck, so if the situation was similar, I do believe he would be the one to sneak up on Mr.Dyck.

 

[KR72]

I suspect that AS is implying that he 'rescued' his son from his ex and BS's mother (the "Hex") when BS quit school in 2016 and ran away from PA to live with AS for a short period of time in Victoria. I gather this was very short-lived and may well have been curtailed by the intervention of social services and/or the police who likely returned him to his mother/grandmother (the "guardians"). BS was a minor at the time and his mother had custody. I believe AS was homeless then as well.

Sorry to say once again but IMO the blame game is AS's favourite theme song and I strongly doubt that he will stop singing it every chance he gets.

Yes, and though I do believe AS's suffering is genuine, I also think he's further victimizing his ex by his public comments against her. If we consider him to be a victim in this case, then we must consider BS's mother and grandmother to be victims as well. I know many people here are "taking his side" but it is possible to feel for him and also recognize that he has 10 years of harassment charges against him and that is very problematic.

We don't know her side of the story, we have no idea what she tried with her son or how/if she tried to help him. Maybe she really was afraid of her him? Perhaps in her mind, allowing her ex who had addictions along with mental health issues to have full access to Bryer wasn't in his best interest? Unless she speaks and tells her side of things we won't have any idea of what it was she went through with both her son and her ex.

 

[CinNC]

But typically at age sixteen, the courts will usually let the child choose where to live. The fact Bryer was given no say sounds like something else is going on. I don't doubt there is truth to his words. He likely was given a ****** hand. Bryer's mother likely had made it so difficult for Alan to see his son. I don't know what AS did to get criminal harassment charges brought up against him. He had to have done something in excess. If he truly just wanted to see his son, and his ex wasn't letting him, then yeah I can sympathize with that. Also, we only have what AS is saying to base an opinion. Somewhere there is her side of the story, his side of the story and the truth. Either way, they both let him down.



I think he had a place then, and after they took Bryer a second time, he went down hill. I swear he said he was only homeless the last two years.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. The story of a child being in the middle of a tug of war between two angry, vindictive parents is certainly not a new one.

And as far as only having what AS says on video to formulate an opinion, I think you are spot on.

In a way, it reminds me of tabloid headlines and how they "work". A photographer uses the motor drive on their camera to take dozens of photos of a subject in a moment's time. They find the most horrible and least complimentary photo they can of the person and then create a fitting headline. "John Doe is Suffering From Cancer" is backed up by a photo of John Doe in the worst possible lighting with a pained expression, when he may have just tripped over a crack in the sidwalk at that moment in time.

To bring this together into one cohesive thought, we are seeing video of AS at the worst time of his life and people are extrapolating worst-case scenarios. We know 0.001% of AS's story, and we are judging as though we know 75% of what he is all about. Unfair and unrealistic, IMO.

 

[CinNC]

Yes, and though I do believe AS's suffering is genuine, I also think he's further victimizing his ex by his public comments against her. If we consider him to be a victim in this case, then we must consider BS's mother and grandmother to be victims as well. I know many people here are "taking his side" but it is possible to feel for him and also recognize that he has 10 years of harassment charges against him and that is very problematic.

We don't know her side of the story, we have no idea what she tried with her son or how/if she tried to help him. Maybe she really was afraid of her him? Perhaps in her mind, allowing her ex who had addictions along with mental health issues to have full access to Bryer wasn't in his best interest? Unless she speaks and tells her side of things we won't have any idea of what it was she went through with both her son and her ex.

I agree with you. However, how do "we" really KNOW that he harassed her to the extent that the media says he did? Its possible that this information is based on her hating AS as much as he hates her.

I always try to see both potential sides. I have been personally subjected to an untenable situation where stepchildren and their mother's behaviors were concerned and believe me -- it was all I could talk about at the time when it was at its worst. Anyone who only knew me during that time would have had a skewed perspective of who I am as a person, too.

 

[Trooper]

There is every chance that Bryer played the disharmony between his parents like a Stradivarius violin. . Psychopathy revels in that scenario.

From what is seen of Al, Bryer has certainly played him to the absolute maximum. .. 'Dad... I am bullied!'... Dad...I neeed an Airsoft!... Dad... why can't I live with you.. ' .. 'Mum, help me, get me out of here I cant take no more of Dad'... Bryer would be as cunning as an outhouse rat in stoking those fires to achieve his own results..

The bit where Al says , the RCMP abducted B and took him back to PA against his wishes. Please. This is like a festival of good times to a psychopath. It has ALL the elements necessary for a good time, Dad in whirl, the RCMP all stern and cool, Bryer playing the pathetic little boy, torn in two....

He and Kam would have cried laughing about it all for weeks.

 

[KR72]

I agree with you. However, how do "we" really KNOW that he harassed her to the extent that the media says he did? Its possible that this information is based on her hating AS as much as he hates her.

I always try to see both potential sides. I have been personally subjected to an untenable situation where stepchildren and their mother's behaviors were concerned and believe me -- it was all I could talk about at the time when it was at its worst. Anyone who only knew me during that time would have had a skewed perspective of who I am as a person, too.

Way back on one of the earlier threads there was a link to his court records.

 

[Trooper]

Two parents , perhaps neither of them with any remarkable parenting skills, perhaps not many social skills, but you throw a psychopathic child into that mix, and the chaos that inevitably results is partly what you see in Al's eyes. Really, no one deserves that and there are many parents, not the majority, not even a great many but just many parents who live like this . Some families have more than one child affected.

Just plain horror, and Al can't seem to grasp where it emanated from.

 

[NJSleuth91]

None of us know if either of them were psychopaths. Psychopathy can only be diagnosed with a brain scan. Also, psychopathy is a spectrum, not a clearly defined thing. There's also sociopathy which is mainly a result of environment, but can result in similar consequences.

Additionally, thousands of years of human history shows that ordinary non-psychopaths have the capacity to commit all sorts of atrocities against random, innocent people. And not everyone who is a psychopath commits violent crimes.

Also:
Why Mass Killers Aren't Necessarily Psychopaths

And although psychopaths can be violent, that doesn't mean they commonly kill.

"Most psychopaths don't kill anybody," Schlesinger said, "and not everybody that kills is a psychopath."

According to Dr. Michael Welner, a forensic psychiatrist at the NYU School of Medicine, while psychopaths do commit homicides, their motives tend to be specific – they are usually driven by money, sex or a desire to escape from the scene of another crime.

But for mass killers, a motive can be that they see themselves as failures, Welner said.

Mass killers can be men who "are painfully aware of themselves as social and sexual rejects in a society that values social desirability," Welner said. "And in a society that values achievement, they are aware of how they have fallen short, and in ways that will not reverse."

Additionally, any researcher in the field of psychology or criminology can tell you that environmental factors influence development. Even if someone is born a psychopath, that doesn't make them "destined to kill." And there is a clear correlation between people who commit random acts of violence, and having a history of abuse.

Op-Ed: We have studied every mass shooting since 1966. Here's what we've learned about the shooters
"First, the vast majority of mass shooters in our study experienced early childhood trauma and exposure to violence at a young age. The nature of their exposure included parental suicide, physical or sexual abuse, neglect, domestic violence, and/or severe bullying. The trauma was often a precursor to mental health concerns, including depression, anxiety, thought disorders or suicidality."

The incidence of child abuse in serial killers
"Abuse was categorized into physical abuse, sexual abuse, psychological abuse, and neglect and was then compared to societal norms from 2001. Abuse of all types excluding neglect was significantly higher in the serial killer population."

(Yes, I know that Kam and Bryer were spree killers, but spree killings aren't as common so there isn't as much research done on them...either way it all falls under the category of random violence.)

 

[Trooper]

Way back on one of the earlier threads there was a link to his court records.

It was sobering reading. He was , well, he would call it persistent but a therapist would call it relentless. It was , to me, a truly dreadful campaign, that was the word that sprang to my mind, a campaign to undercut and for him to rise above.

Yet oddly, he had no trouble outlining his own illnesses, which ones were self diagnosed, I couldn't tell, but he said he had schizophrenia, . now … you don't get cured of that, you control it medically, and the side effects of that medication are sometimes so dire that people prefer to be schizophrenic... Al didn't see that as a handicap to parenting at all.

 

[Trooper]

None of us know if either of them were psychopaths. Psychopathy can only be diagnosed with a brain scan. Also, psychopathy is a spectrum, not a clearly defined thing. There's also sociopathy which is mainly a result of environment, but can result in similar consequences.

Additionally, thousands of years of human history shows that ordinary non-psychopaths have the capacity to commit all sorts of atrocities against random, innocent people. And not everyone who is a psychopath commits violent crimes.

Also:
Why Mass Killers Aren't Necessarily Psychopaths


Additionally, any researcher in the field of psychology or criminology can tell you that environmental factors influence development. Even if someone is born a psychopath, that doesn't make them "destined to kill." And there is a clear correlation between people who commit random acts of violence, and having a history of abuse.

Op-Ed: We have studied every mass shooting since 1966. Here's what we've learned about the shooters
"First, the vast majority of mass shooters in our study experienced early childhood trauma and exposure to violence at a young age. The nature of their exposure included parental suicide, physical or sexual abuse, neglect, domestic violence, and/or severe bullying. The trauma was often a precursor to mental health concerns, including depression, anxiety, thought disorders or suicidality."

The incidence of child abuse in serial killers
"Abuse was categorized into physical abuse, sexual abuse, psychological abuse, and neglect and was then compared to societal norms from 2001. Abuse of all types excluding neglect was significantly higher in the serial killer population."

(Yes, I know that Kam and Bryer were spree killers, but spree killings aren't as common so there isn't as much research done on them...either way it all falls under the category of random violence.)

Fallon floated this idea way back in 2013. It is a theory, not a fact.

 

[KR72]

Two parents , perhaps neither of them with any remarkable parenting skills, perhaps not many social skills, but you throw a psychopathic child into that mix, and the chaos that inevitably results is partly what you see in Al's eyes. Really, no one deserves that and there are many parents, not the majority, not even a great many but just many parents who live like this . Some families have more than one child affected.

Just plain horror, and Al can't seem to grasp where it emanated from.

I agree, perhaps Bryer's behaviour made an impossible situation even worse? I don't blame either AS or BS's mother for having difficulty handling the situation. I know a divorced couple, both of whom are good parents with resources, stable jobs, who've maintained a decent relationship who have had endless problems with one of their sons, to the point where the son, at 16, was "voluntarily" surrendered to CFS because his issues are so great.

 

[dust bunny]

But typically at age sixteen, the courts will usually let the child choose where to live. The fact Bryer was given no say sounds like something else is going on. I don't doubt there is truth to his words. He likely was given a ****** hand. Bryer's mother likely had made it so difficult for Alan to see his son. I don't know what AS did to get criminal harassment charges brought up against him. He had to have done something in excess. If he truly just wanted to see his son, and his ex wasn't letting him, then yeah I can sympathize with that. Also, we only have what AS is saying to base an opinion. Somewhere there is her side of the story, his side of the story and the truth. Either way, they both let him down.



I think he had a place then, and after they took Bryer a second time, he went down hill. I swear he said he was only homeless the last two years.

 

[sandbar]

dbm

 

[dust bunny]

I agree with many of your points and I am sure there are at least 2 or 3 sides to the story. Yes, a 16 year-old often has a say in which parent he/she wants to live with but ultimately the courts decide, basing themselves on what is in the best interests of the "child". With AS's previous history, restraining orders and track record, I can see why his "parenting" skills might have raised some red flags and that the mother might have been determined to be the preferred custodial parent.

 

[SiciC]

What, generally speaking , would Al be referring to when he says he 'rescued' his kid'?... is he hinting at some underground cult thingy in Port Alberni? that everyone in PA is in on? .. What trouble do you think he was in that he didn't want to 'return to Port Alberni'? .. .

A town-wide cult.. I think that's a bit of a stretch. I think Al meant Bryer wanted away from his living situation with his mom in Port Alberni (although didn't he live with his grandma? or did his mom also live with grandma?). Who knows though, Al obviously has a grudge against his ex, Bryer's mother. He has no shortage of negative things to say about her. Maybe Al just wants to shift the blame on her or just away from himself... maybe that's just how he's dealing with it, maybe there's truth to it. I don't see why a 16 year old teen would want to move away from the town where his best friend since childhood, the one he seemed to be attached to like glue to, lived...

 

[Bluepopsicle]

sure they do, but they don't teach Canadian geography in Au schools. Whereas, from K and B's grasp it 's hard to believe they even teach Canadian geography in Canadian Schools. Getting to Africa thru Hudsons Bay.. … with winter coming on....

Hnm, weird. Canadian curriculum teaches WORLD geography. It’s been awhile since I was in school but I still remember the territories of AU. I can’t speak to B & K’s lack of knowledge, but I know most of my fellow Canadians understand the folly of hijacking a boat to travel to EU/Africa. However, that being said, if one was so silly to try and attempt to go through the Hudson Bay, July/August would definitely be the time to travel. “Winter coming on” in the Hudson Bay wouldn’t really come about until October/November.

 

[CinNC]

Yes, and though I do believe AS's suffering is genuine, I also think he's further victimizing his ex by his public comments against her. If we consider him to be a victim in this case, then we must consider BS's mother and grandmother to be victims as well. I know many people here are "taking his side" but it is possible to feel for him and also recognize that he has 10 years of harassment charges against him and that is very problematic.

We don't know her side of the story, we have no idea what she tried with her son or how/if she tried to help him. Maybe she really was afraid of her him? Perhaps in her mind, allowing her ex who had addictions along with mental health issues to have full access to Bryer wasn't in his best interest? Unless she speaks and tells her side of things we won't have any idea of what it was she went through with both her son and her ex.

Agreed. I don't blame any of them for staying quiet. When a person is under emotional siege, they build a brick wall around themselves for protection.

Who knows (we don't) what the real story is between the two parents, though. After all, KM's parents are together as far as we know and look how HE turned out. The fact that the parents of BS hate each other is a side dish, in a way. JMO