Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[LoisLane]

I think she is working pro bono. There is no way Al can pay her when he can't even find a job. I think she has compassion for him as well as having some motive of her own.

I totally agree.

 

[Esprite]

About the only thing I can add to your thoughtful and "spot on" post is that there is something as bad as being the parent of a mentally ill child. That is being the step-parent of a mentally ill child. You take it on by choice, and have to be prepared to do battle with the system, sometimes the child, and even within the family itself. All the while being marginalized yourself as a newly minted member of an extended family who may not even want you there. To fight daily to advocate for the child and get NOWHERE. To get nowhere with advocacy resources, local and state bureaucracy, and the sacrifices and unpleasantries that take place every single day within the home and the other children present. I speak from personal experience.

I can't imagine the horror of BS and KM's families lives, now. Every waking moment for the rest of their lives, filled with ache, loss, pain and "what ifs". To not only lose their child, but to live with the ghastly, enduring legacy they have left behind. To know they raised a child who ultimately hurt people in the worst possible way because of the evil within them; an evil that was inches away from you and you never even saw. Untenable, at best. If it happened to me, I don't even know how I would manage to put one foot in front of the other each day.

The adult family members must move forward for the sake of the siblings left behind, as they will carry the stigma for the rest of their lives.

 

[Jan424]

RCMP know their actions caused what?

This is what I want to know.

 

[NJSleuth91]

In the days since the report came out I've wondered, if initially Kam was going to play the acting chauffeur for Bryer and he would stay in the truck as backup and let Bryer do the killings.

I don't think they would have brought two guns if they didn't intend to use two guns. It also said in the report that both guns were used in Lucas and Chynna's murders.

I won't rule out that they could have hit him with the pickup, but then I got to thinking, the size of that Dodge alone would have left serious injuries to anyone they hit, perhaps even broken bones. Yet the description of Leonard's body was only "bruises and burns."

It said "including bruises and burns," which implies there could have also been other injuries. Also, this was a description of what the police could see when they first arrived on the scene -- it doesn't say what type of injuries there may have been internally. In any case though, it said there was "no obvious cause of death" until they discovered the bullet wound, so whatever injuries were externally visible, were not visibly life threatening.

I do suspect however, they discovered Leonard parked, drove by, turned round, then drove back up the road to that pullout where they would later burn the Dodge and Camper. I think they walked the ditch that whole length back to Leonard as to not attract any attention or make noise. That may also explain why the Coffee Crisp wrapper was in the ditch along the way in between. Eating while walking. Again, not certain. It could just as well been tossed out the window on the way back to park the pickup after they found Leonard parked at his pullout.

It doesn't seem like it would be a good idea to be separated from their car by 2km initially, in case the person was awake and spotted them like what happened on the 17th, or if the person was even armed. They would want to be able to make a quick getaway in that case.

I think it's reasonable to assume that they used the same M.O. as they did on the 17th. One of them (probably Kam) pulling forward slowly in the car, with one of them (probably Bryer) approaching with a gun.

I think another possible reason why they chose this M.O. is that it's possible the gun that was put together from different parts stopped working after Lucas and Chynna's murders. So one of them had to use an alternate "weapon" so to speak.

Also remember that mass killers copycat each other -- there have been a number of mass killing attacks using vehicles, including, notably, the ones perpetrated by Alek Minassian and Elliot Rodger.

 

[CinNC]

The adult family members must move forward for the sake of the siblings left behind, as they will carry the stigma for the rest of their lives.

I agree, but it is likely that they are still existing in a fog of disbelief and unrealness. I hope they seek professional help as individuals and as families. There are precious few precedents as to how they can best proceed, and counselling should be first on the agenda to at least keep their feet on the floor.

 

[sprucetip]

My theory on Bryer being the shooter of Leonard is based on several things. In the days since the report came out I've wondered, if initially Kam was going to play the acting chauffeur for Bryer and he would stay in the truck as backup and let Bryer do the killings. One possible scenario with Chynna and Lucas for example would be they rolled up that night, Kam stayed in the truck, Bryer got out alone, but when they realized it was two people and not just one, Kam jumped out to act as backup and they both opened fire. That first press conference held by the RCMP a reporter asked Hackett to verify their were 6 shell casings found at the scene but in the Final Report it states there were both spent and unspent shell casings found. I do know one of those SKS Rifles is capable of firing off six rounds in a matter of seconds from one clip so it is possible only one gun was used on both Chynna and Lucas but you'd better be a pretty sharp shooter. Obviously they tested if both guns were fired, which they were, but that doesn't necessarily mean both guns were used on Lucas and Chynna. Perhaps Kam never fired at the Chynna and Lucas scene and it was only Bryer unloading one gun. We don't know for certain. Again, this is just a theory and Kam and Bryer just as easily could have made their first murder a joint effort. Kam may have even been turned off by killing anyone himself and wanted to watch or if he did assist in shooting Lucas and Chynna it bothered him enough, he would quietly let Bryer take future responsibility. Not saying Kam flat out refused, but insisted Bryer handle the murders. Maybe Bryer even preferred. We don't know. Anyway, a few nights later when they made their second attempt West of Haines Junction, it was Bryer who go out of the truck with one of the guns and Kam stayed behind as driver. That was foiled thankfully. Still, I do wonder if Bryer wanted second chance after failing the previous night. Which brings us to the night of Leonard. I won't rule out that they could have hit him with the pickup, but then I got to thinking, the size of that Dodge alone would have left serious injuries to anyone they hit, perhaps even broken bones. Yet the description of Leonard's body was only "bruises and burns." If not for car trouble, there could have been some DNA evidence left on the truck and camper and would also explain why they burned it. They possibly also feared or got paranoid that the pickup was just too identifiable to continue driving, not to mention expensive on gas especially hauling that camper on the back and decided it needed to be abandoned. I do suspect however, they discovered Leonard parked, drove by, turned round, then drove back up the road to that pullout where they would later burn the Dodge and Camper. I think they walked the ditch that whole length back to Leonard as to not attract any attention or make noise. That may also explain why the Coffee Crisp wrapper was in the ditch along the way in between. Eating while walking. Again, not certain. It could just as well been tossed out the window on the way back to park the pickup after they found Leonard parked at his pullout. Something tells me Bryer initiated the attack on Leonard and Kam held back as support, which he did I do believe provide. I just get more of a showoff, reckless attitude from Bryer. Then I look at the surveillance footage that has been released. Notice Bryer is not wearing his camo in the Dease Lake Super A footage on the afternoon of the 18th. But then the following late afternoon of the 20th in Fairview he's wearing it, as well as the infamous Meadow Lake video footage the day after that. In all three public photos Kam is still dressed in street clothes donning his Cathulu shirt. That's not to say he couldn't have just thrown on a camo jacket during the night shootings and by day he dressed casually but it's been another thing that's stuck out in my mind. In other words, it seemed Bryer was in his military mode the night of the 18th onward. Yet I noticed he's wearing black sweatpants and that "Flash Dance" shirt.. (not quite sure what was up with that) in the Dease Lake photo and a t-shirt and blue jeans in the Whitehorse photo with the gas can on the 15th. Of course they could have always changed clothes at anytime on the fly. But I got the impression he was more in soldier mode after they fled and Kam didn't get dressed up in survival gear until they arrived in Sundance. In fact I bet he was still wearing Cathulhu when they got pulled over in Split Lake. I'm sure he changed clothes, but he was probably wearing the same outfits for 3-4 days at a time before changing. I hope he was changing...

The Super A footage, with both of them buying Doritos is from Whitehorse, I recognize the store and cashier. The one with the cowboy hat and jerry can is a store about 4kms closer to whitehorse. They’re very close together. The place where the supervisor found them with the hood up is in this area (Porter Creek) as well. Seems they were around here for a bit, But I bet they also made it to downtown Whitehorse and hit up the fast food joints. There’s only restaurants and the more expensive grocery store in this area.

 

[sprucetip]

They very likely could have spent all that time looking for another victim, but part of me wonders if they were actually going to attempt to look for jobs in Whitehorse like they had originally said and pretend like they didn't just kill two people. I know it sounds completely ridiculous but it's possible. They also probably realized that the finding a job with very little experience, having to apply in person, no resume, no major work history, perhaps no way to apply online or do searches from their phones (no signal) (we know Bryer certainly didn't have one) and being more or less homeless completely sucked and wasn't going to work out. But for what it's worth, they did have a camper to sleep in and that beats sleeping in a tent or on a park bench any night. That's an interesting point about the hunting thing too, I never took into account they won't let a non-resident hunt without a guide or an outfitter and that gets ridiculously expensive. I have to wonder too, if Kam's Dad did take him up there hunting, if they only went a couple times together. Perhaps his Dad was a big hunter, took Kam and tried to get him into it so they had something to bond over but ultimately it wasn't Kam's "jam" so to speak.

Wow that is something I NEVER considered, them actually looking for work. Could be, they seemed so delusional, it could be something they actually did.

I was thinking maybe their route followed where one of them went hunting. If it was for sheep, they could have headed out towards HJ, maybe whoever hunted here was a bit familiar with the area? And knew there would be few people around.

 

[NJSleuth91]

AS doesn’t know where the second gun may have come from, or if his son possibly built the gun himself.

“They’re already saying he had it,” he said. “Does that mean he built it, or did Kam have it? We don’t know.”

‘We don’t know’: Families left with questions after RCMP report on northern B.C. murders

I’d be interested in knowing the answer to that question too. BS was living with his grandmother and the house was small.

View attachment 207305 View attachment 207306

I can’t imagine him building a gun in the bedroom of his Granny’s house. Then there’s the problem of getting it in and out of the house without being seen by either his Granny or neighbours.

I believe it was KM’s gun and he was the person that should have been referred to as the person who went hunting with his father, and he had a PAL licence.

If KM wanted to build a gun without his parents' knowledge, it wouldn't have been hard as the home is set on 5 acres with lots of trees.

Yeah I can't see Bryer building such a large gun in his grandma's house, especially with how small the house is. I mean, in that picture with the Airsoft rifle he isn't wearing shoes, most likely because his grandma didn't allow shoes in the house...so if he wouldn't even wear shoes in her house for a picture, I doubt he would hide an entire gun in her house and sneak it in and out. It makes a lot more sense that it was hidden on Kam's property because there were more places to hide it, or since we now know Kam legally owned the truck, it may have even been hidden in the truck.

I also would like to know if the police actually do think Bryer built the gun himself or if it's just one possibility. Because I've heard older SKS rifles often have had parts replaced on them from other rifles, and can be purchased very cheaply.

I agree, but it is likely that they are still existing in a fog of disbelief and unrealness. I hope they seek professional help as individuals and as families. There are precious few precedents as to how they can best proceed, and counselling should be first on the agenda to at least keep their feet on the floor.

I wonder if there's some kind of secret support group for family members of mass killers. If I was them I would try to contact Sue Klebold because she is an advocate in this field now.

 

[CinNC]

I have a feeling that Bryer likely walked into the store, saw it and thought it was cool. I don't think it was to disguise his appearance at all.



This actually makes me a little worried about AS. He is mentally ill, jobless, homeless. He lost his father and now his son. I really do hope he is getting some help because I fear once all this really hits him, which I don't believe it has, I feel like he may be suicidal.



Were these tellers claiming these odd feelings before or after they were named as suspects? Because I'm sure the person who sold the gun to Kam feels awful, but there was no way he/she could have known what they had planned. If asked why they were buying them, Kam likely would have just said that he was going hunting.

I agree about the cowboy hat. I do not think there was a moment's worth of thought given to their clothing and appearance. They were still teenagers and obviously didn't dress for success. My own experience with teenage boys is that they reach for whatever is comfortable and presents the least amount of work and thought to put on. I doubt if they took a huge selection of clothing with them and would have had to turn to the same clothing items frequently. As to BS and his love for camo, I think that goes back years based on photos we have seen. His reasons for liking it may have been nefarious. Or maybe he just felt more secure in the bulk of them, given his height and weight, and just felt that he didn't look so gawky and skinny in them.

As to AS, I think you are right in feeling he should seek help. All of the perps' families should. They can't possibly know how navigate these waters.

I'm curious though; the media has said that in the past, AS has been deemed mentally ill. Is there any actual proof of this other than interviews with provincial child protection agencies and the authorities involved in his purported harassment of his ex? I'm talking about a real diagnosis; bipolar? Schizophrenia? Is there any documentation stating that he took prescribed meds to manage his "mental illness"? I'm not doubting your post personally, but I've seen this thrown around a lot with no specifics backing it up. Maybe I just missed it or wasn't paying attention?

 

[Sillybilly]

This has been said before and we don't want to have to say it again.

Absolutely STOP victim bashing Alan Schmegelsky. He did not commit these crimes and is not a POI or suspect and online bullying of him won't be tolerated.

You may discuss what AS and other family members say in MSM or what is said in MSM about them. Do not sleuth them or make comments about them that are not victim friendly.

ETA: Please use the Report feature to let us know of any posts that continue to slag AS and they will be dealt with.

 

[sprucetip]

Perhaps they should throw in some earth science studies as well in AU schools. Weather patterns east of the Rockies have nothing to do with sea ice formation in the Hudson Bay. Jus’ sayin, not trying to be ‘too picky’.

Especially when it’s a normal part of Calgary life, snow in non-winter months, lol. It’ll melt and be warm for a few weeks more.

 

[sandbar]

I’m catching up and just have to say that I felt pretty sad reading comments judging the killers’ parents and families. It’s beginning to feel like some are caught up in the thrill of the debate and forgetting that these are real human beings and victims of these terrible crimes. They have to face the unspeakable facts of what their CHILDREN were capable of and will never get a reprieve from all the weight behind that.

Parenting any child is tough. Parents of mentally ill children walk an especially painful and lonely road that I would not wish on anyone. I can’t even fathom the pain and doubt of parenting children like BS and KM.

If you haven’t walked a mile in the beat-up shoes of any of these devastated parents/guardians (and how could anyone have?) you have no right to judge their parenting, decisions, grief, outspokenness or silence. Full stop.

I’m new here and really expected more empathy and compassion from people who have been following this so closely. My opinion obviously.

Welcome...

There is also an ignore option on your account page that's very useful for keeping chronically negative posters from your feed.

 

[SovereignSnake]

The Super A footage, with both of them buying Doritos is from Whitehorse, I recognize the store and cashier. The one with the cowboy hat and jerry can is a store about 4kms closer to whitehorse. They’re very close together. The place where the supervisor found them with the hood up is in this area (Porter Creek) as well. Seems they were around here for a bit, But I bet they also made it to downtown Whitehorse and hit up the fast food joints. There’s only restaurants and the more expensive grocery store in this area.

Definitely appreciate all your insights on the Whitehorse area @sprucetip. I was trying to pin down where this "Kilometer Marker 1435" was. So it's on the North side of town (Whitehorse) in the Porter Creek area where they were found with the hood up on the the side of the road. Not East of Whitehorse like they had stated in the final report? Also, you are right about the gas station photo as well! All this time I had been going by what the reporter had said on Twitter and then I'm like wait a minute, the date stamp is right there on the photo! So Wednesday the 17th at 18:34 or 6:34pm in Whitehorse. I'm going to take a guess and say it was "Goody's Gas and Convenience Store" based on what I'm seeing on Google Maps. I apologize, that's twice now I've claimed it was Dease Lake in my posts confusing Wednesday and Thursday and the 17th/18th. Information overload I guess, but great to have some insider info from the area. Very much appreciated.

 

[SiciC]

Again, this is just a theory and Kam and Bryer just as easily could have made their first murder a joint effort. Kam may have even been turned off by killing anyone himself and wanted to watch or if he did assist in shooting Lucas and Chynna it bothered him enough, he would quietly let Bryer take future responsibility. Not saying Kam flat out refused, but insisted Bryer handle the murders.

I think Kam was just as comfortable and involved with the killings... If he was bothered by killing anyone, how could he have shot & killed his best friend? (If that's what happened, I know it was said in the PC that "it's believed Mcleod shot Schmegelsky before turning the gun on himself") Wouldn't Bryer have been the one to shoot Kam first if Bryer was the "main killer", trigger happy and more confident with the gun? I think they were very similar and both thought a lot alike... It was also said in the PC that they were cold and remorseless while confessing on the videos.. it just doesn't seem like Kam was in any way less murderous or violent than Bryer.
Imo of course.

Used be a time whereby if a bar waitress served you alcohol after seeing you'd were already
half-stewed, she was legally liable for any DUI you caused. Why aren't gun stores clerks held to a similar standard? Some tellers on their spree have reported an odd feeling about these two straight off. You'd expect the gun-store antennas would be even more highly tuned.

Kam looked like an ordinary teenager to me, I didn't see the "dead eyes" or get a bad vibe from pictures of him like some other people have said they did. And all accounts from people who knew him personally are positive, no one had anything bad to say about him prior to this event. I've only heard he was polite, he was cool..... The gun store clerk probably had no inkling, just assumed he was into hunting or camping. Regardless, if the person purchasing the gun has a license to do so, is coherent, lucid, reasonable.. the gun store clerk can't deny to sell to them off a "bad feeling", you can't really predict that a person buying a gun is going to do something awful with it, because it doesn't happen very often. People buy guns everyday for hunting, protection, collecting..

Even if Kam didn't have a PAL and didn't purchase that second gun, they still had the other one somehow.... Firearms always get in to the hands of the wrong people despite all the laws unfortunately.

 

[CinNC]

I’m catching up and just have to say that I felt pretty sad reading comments judging the killers’ parents and families. It’s beginning to feel like some are caught up in the thrill of the debate and forgetting that these are real human beings and victims of these terrible crimes. They have to face the unspeakable facts of what their CHILDREN were capable of and will never get a reprieve from all the weight behind that.

Parenting any child is tough. Parents of mentally ill children walk an especially painful and lonely road that I would not wish on anyone. I can’t even fathom the pain and doubt of parenting children like BS and KM.

If you haven’t walked a mile in the beat-up shoes of any of these devastated parents/guardians (and how could anyone have?) you have no right to judge their parenting, decisions, grief, outspokenness or silence. Full stop.

I’m new here and really expected more empathy and compassion from people who have been following this so closely. My opinion obviously.

THANK YOU for speaking up. Your views mirror my own exactly. While people are curious and want answers, I don't think the families of KM and BS have the answers to give. If anything, they likely have more questions than anyone!

They are staggering under the weight of what their sons have done and anyone with a kind bone in their body would realize they are in an immense amount of pain.

I'm not championing them "over" the parents and families of the deceased. I'm saying that if I really take a moment, take a deep breath, close my eyes and allow the enormity of what they must be feeling wash over me, then I could just cry for what they must be feeling and going through.

How do you ever take a normal step through life again? I feel for them all. I especially feel for C, L and L and their families; they had no choice. But the families of these two teens didn't, either.

I can't imagine that anyone here would think that if they did know how deeply disturbed their sons were that they would have been complacent about it. Different people handle such things differently and to a different degree, but nobody just sits back and says, "I think my child is capable of murder but I'll just forget about it and hope nothing comes of it".

Personally, I feel deeply for the victims' families. SO much so. I also respect KM's family's silence, the silence of BS's mother and grandmother, et al, and I have the greatest empathy for AS. He is a man in pain and he is trying to find his way through this, and the least any of us can do is wish him well.

For the reasons you stipulate, I fear I may need to step back from this thread, as my own empathy for those involved is pretty much all I can think about; the minutiae of what and when and where the perps changed their clothes, ate a candy bar, built a gun, stopped their camper, etc. fell off my radar screen after last week's press conference.

 

[sprucetip]

Definitely appreciate all your insights on the Whitehorse area @sprucetip. I was trying to pin down where this "Kilometer Marker 1435" was. So it's on the North side of town (Whitehorse) in the Porter Creek area where they were found with the hood up on the the side of the road. Not East of Whitehorse like they had stated in the final report? Also, you are right about the gas station photo as well! All this time I had been going by what the reporter had said on Twitter and then I'm like wait a minute, the date stamp is right there on the photo! So Wednesday the 17th at 18:34 or 6:34pm in Whitehorse. I'm going to take a guess and say it was "Goody's Gas and Convenience Store" based on what I'm seeing on Google Maps. I apologize, that's twice now I've claimed it was Dease Lake in my posts confusing Wednesday and Thursday and the 17th/18th. Information overload I guess, but great to have some insider info from the area. Very much appreciated.

No worries, happy to clarify! I think a few people were confused because of the way the reporter wrote it.

They did get the ‘east’ part wrong. Km 1435 is north of Whitehorse proper. It’s north of the Crestview neighbourhood. What’s interesting is that there is a big pullout at the intersection of the Klondike and Alaska Hwy. There are always people overnighting there. But lots of people, more than these two could deal with. Further down the Hwy to the spot where they ‘hunted’ that person, there are multiple pullouts along the way. I wonder if that one was the first where there was only one person and that’s why they chose it? It seems like such an odd place to go then double back. Maybe that’s only when they actually realized they were headed to the border and crossing it would be difficult.

And the store they were at is Super A, not Goody’s. If you look at the pic showing the truck, you see one road (Centennial) paralleling another, further out. That’s the Alaska Hwy.

The other one is a Fas Gas just north of 2-mile hill, where B was wearing the cowboy hat. These locations are really close to each other. And who buys a jerry can at a gas station! They’re always way more expensive but they probably weren’t thinking about that.

 

[sprucetip]

I have a feeling that Bryer likely walked into the store, saw it and thought it was cool. I don't think it was to disguise his appearance at all.



This actually makes me a little worried about AS. He is mentally ill, jobless, homeless. He lost his father and now his son. I really do hope he is getting some help because I fear once all this really hits him, which I don't believe it has, I feel like he may be suicidal.



Were these tellers claiming these odd feelings before or after they were named as suspects? Because I'm sure the person who sold the gun to Kam feels awful, but there was no way he/she could have known what they had planned. If asked why they were buying them, Kam likely would have just said that he was going hunting.

Could be true about the cowboy hat. Is it something a teenage boy would think is cool though? I have no clue but I would think the whole ‘cowboy culture’ would not be their thing. Maybe they thought they were badasses after the murders and needed something to show it.

It is freaky to see them walking around, doing normal things like buying gas but knowing they have this horrific secret between the two of them. Again, what are the conversations or thoughts going thru their heads?! And to each other?

Also, there are so many rural properties around here, that they passed on the way to HJ ( mine included). And rural subdivisions with acreages, they could have easily gone onto and stolen things or killed more people. But that might have been more risky than their stalk unsuspecting, sleeping people alone in cars MO.

 

[DVCal]

I would like to point out Kam clearly had issues before this. The fact that he had to attend a special school for people with behavioral or intellectual issues means this. The school he graduated from a school to provide special learning environment for students who are unable to attend a traditional school.

Edit: Just to make sure people don't misunderstand me, I am not saying children who require a special or non traditional learning environment are some how dangerous or likely to commit crimes.

 

[Optics]

I’m catching up and just have to say that I felt pretty sad reading comments judging the killers’ parents and families. It’s beginning to feel like some are caught up in the thrill of the debate and forgetting that these are real human beings and victims of these terrible crimes. They have to face the unspeakable facts of what their CHILDREN were capable of and will never get a reprieve from all the weight behind that.

Parenting any child is tough. Parents of mentally ill children walk an especially painful and lonely road that I would not wish on anyone. I can’t even fathom the pain and doubt of parenting children like BS and KM.

If you haven’t walked a mile in the beat-up shoes of any of these devastated parents/guardians (and how could anyone have?) you have no right to judge their parenting, decisions, grief, outspokenness or silence. Full stop.

I’m new here and really expected more empathy and compassion from people who have been following this so closely. My opinion obviously.

^^^^^^THIS!! Glad you posted your comments as I was about to say something similar. None of us know what AS or especially his lawyer are thinking. Thankfully she was able to get the RCMP to let AS see the "last testament" of his son's video. She's not stupid. We need to stop vilifying Alan Schmegelsky and now his lawyer.

 

[Optics]

Perhaps it is in error, but according to this article it was confirmed by police. No correction has been issued to that part and that article has been out for quite a few days now.

Black Press especially with their digital media doesn't often correct their erroneous reporting. Its common knowledge in Canada.