Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[Lalalacasbah]

The route just baffles me though. They hung around Whitehorse for 3 days! Why? What did they do here? Where did they sleep? Were they waiting for the news to hit?

Then, after leaving, they could have gone up the North Klondike Highway (to Dawson) or the Haines Highway once they hit HJ, but stuck to the Alaska highway. When they hit HJ, they would have seen the sign to go to Fairbanks or Haines and chose Fairbanks(much further). We’re they just driving until they spotted someone camped out alone on the side of the road?

And the cowboy hat is peculiar because it doesn’t nothing to alter their appearance, instead it makes them stand out.

SBM - I'm curious too about Whitehorse as I didn't think they made it there when theorizing. I didn't think they made it before the murders nor planned to even go there there for work so I was shocked they got there period.

Maybe they heard of 'Highway of Tears' and other 'titled' murders and wanted their notoriety to be the 'Alaska Highway Killers'.

Agree, the cowboy hat was hokey and looked costumey... definitely draws more attention. I seriously think they were in movie/game zone. Maybe they did watch Thelma & Louise and this was Bryer's Brad Pitt moment (Brad wore a cowboy hat in the movie). I'm joking... but I couldn't help make the connection!

 

[FactFinder3000]

I think everyone thought he had borrowed the truck from his parents up until the report came out and said it was registered to him.

I didn't. Many many reports said it was Kam's truck. I did wonder if they were accurate, but that was certainly the default.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

IMO BS has the profile of a sociopath.

Psychologists often say “sociopaths are made, psychopaths are born”.

Agree, BS a sociopath and KM having antisocial personality disorder and I think a psychopath (even though I know you disagree). Regardless of their labels, they found each other and nurtured their violent ideas enough to act on them.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Agree, BS a sociopath and KM having antisocial personality disorder and I think a psychopath (even though I know you disagree). Regardless of their labels, they found each other and nurtured their violent ideas enough to act on them.

BS a sociopath and we know absolutely nothing about Kam, except that everything anybody said about him was positive.

Huge number of negative anecdotes about Bryer. His own Mom was afraid of him.

Nothing about Kam except how surprised folks are to hear he was caught up in this.

It baffles me how anybody could consider Kam the leader.

 

[Runningforthewind]

BS a sociopath and we know absolutely nothing about Kam, except that everything anybody said about him was positive.

Huge number of negative anecdotes about Bryer. His own Mom was afraid of him.

Nothing about Kam except how surprised folks are to hear he was caught up in this.

It baffles me how anybody could consider Kam the leader.

I just don't' see Kam as being a psychopath. I dont' think either one of them was the leader either but it's easy to say Kam was because he had a license, the vehicle and PAL card. Like I said in an early post. Something happened and I both believe they had a mental break, were out of their minds, and I believe the final toxicology results, and a public inquiry is a key to getting a clearer picture.

 

[LadyL]

BS a sociopath and we know absolutely nothing about Kam, except that everything anybody said about him was positive.

Huge number of negative anecdotes about Bryer. His own Mom was afraid of him.

Nothing about Kam except how surprised folks are to hear he was caught up in this.

It baffles me how anybody could consider Kam the leader.

because psychopaths are good at charming, manipulating, and deceiving people
sociopaths aren't

 

[FactFinder3000]

I just don't' see Kam as being a psychopath. I dont' think either one of them was the leader either but it's easy to say Kam was because he had a license, the vehicle and PAL card. Like I said in an early post. Something happened and I both believe they had a mental break, were out of their minds, and I believe the final toxicology results, and a public inquiry is a key to getting a clearer picture.

Kam had wealthier parents. That's why he had all that stuff. Nothing to do with being a leader.

Sociopath Bryer. Malleable Kam. Simple.

 

[Runningforthewind]

Kam had wealthier parents. That's why he had all that stuff. Nothing to do with being a leader.

Sociopath Bryer. Malleable Kam. Simple.

I do find it really telling though, that Bryer did all the talking in the final videos, it was Bryer's Instagram photo that was changed after they were on the run, and based on the sightings, he is the only one to have changed his clothes, where Kam wore the same shirt. It kind of sounds like he was sort of depressed, gave up.

But I still don't think Bryer was a sociopath either. I do think they were both on some kind of substance. I think Kam likely just had enough near the end, and Bryer couldn't commit suicide so Kam did it for him.

 

[LoisLane]

Trying to make sense of the mapped times supplied in the report...

2019/07/15 1:50 Liard Hot Springs, BC
2019/07/15 3:25 Watson Lake, YT

The times in the middle of the night must be highway cams.

1hr 35 minutes it took for them to get from Liard to Watson Lake.. (google estimates 2hr 49 minutes)

2019/07/15 16:00 Whitehorse, YT
2019/07/16 14:30 M’Clintock River, YT
2019/07/17 18:27 Whitehorse YT
2019/07/17 23:40 Haines Junction, YT

2019/07/18 15:03 Dease Lake, BC

Is it doable that they could make it from HJ to Dease without any gas stops? If they speed like they seem to have done from Liars to Watson they must burn gas fast. It seems odd that they present/have surveillance showing multiple locations leading up to the 17th and then no other Hwy cams or stops between HJ and Dease. Estimating at about a 9 hour drive and 16ish hours unaccounted for.

Was it stated in the presser that the Dease Lake time recorded was them with the RAM or the RAV?
(ETA: On July 19, 2019 at approximately 7:19 a.m RAM is reported on fire)

2019/07/19 11:38 Kitwanga, BC
Kitwanga is almost 7 hours from Dease Lake (Maybe 5 if they speed?) so possible time if leaving Dease directly between 4:30/6:30am if speeding for an 11:30 arrival.

 

[Runningforthewind]

Trying to make sense of the mapped times supplied in the report...

2019/07/15 1:50 Liard Hot Springs, BC
2019/07/15 3:25 Watson Lake, YT

The times in the middle of the night must be highway cams.

1hr 35 minutes it took for them to get from Liard to Watson Lake.. (google estimates 2hr 49 minutes)

2019/07/15 16:00 Whitehorse, YT
2019/07/16 14:30 M’Clintock River, YT
2019/07/17 18:27 Whitehorse YT
2019/07/17 23:40 Haines Junction, YT

2019/07/18 15:03 Dease Lake, BC

Is it doable that they could make it from HJ to Dease without any gas stops? If they speed like they seem to have done from Liars to Watson they must burn gas fast. It seems odd that they present/have surveillance showing multiple locations leading up to the 17th and then no other Hwy cams or stops between HJ and Dease. And wasn't there a sighting early 18th of them in Jade City stopping for coffee. Estimating at about a 9 hour drive and 16ish hours unaccounted for.

Was it stated in the presser that the Dease Lake time recorded was them with the RAM or the RAV?

2019/07/19 11:38 Kitwanga, BC
Kitwanga is almost 7 hours from Dease Lake (Maybe 5 if they speed?) so possible time if leaving Dease directly between 4:30/6:30am if speeding for an 11:30 arrival.

I had noticed that about Liard Hot Springs, BC to Watson Lake. Even speeding I doubt they could have shaved off 1 hour and 14 minutes. I doubt they could have made it from Haines Junction, YT to Dease Lake without filling up. That truck wasn't good on gas. The whole time frame around Dease Lake to Kitwanga didn't make sense to me either.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I've thought about that too, but then I considered that lots of people go to alternative schools for lots of different reasons, doesn't necessarily mean they have issues .. Could be as simple as being a bit lazy in school and not wanting to attend regular classes all day.

SBM - This isn't all in reference to you post, I'm merely jumping off it to add!

I probably sound so ignorant, not trying to - I'm probably outdated is all... but when I was younger in middle school (circa 1988-ish) the alternative school was where the problematic kids went. Kids from problematic home environments, kids who were disruptive/lipping off teachers, tougher kids, etc. Of course we can't say this now as not politically correct (and I admit, I sound ignorant lol) and times have changed. VAST has Youth Care Workers and enhanced support so a little more going on possibly.

All I know is now that I'm a parent, kids that have learning disabilities get tutors or support groups. It's very rare (and hard) from my experience to get kids OUT of public schools unless there's reasons as parents usually freak out and want their kids in a 'normal' school environment fitting in with peers. All MOO

 

[LoisLane]

I do find it really telling though, that Bryer did all the talking in the final videos, it was Bryer's Instagram photo that was changed after they were on the run, and based on the sightings, he is the only one to have changed his clothes, where Kam wore the same shirt. It kind of sounds like he was sort of depressed, gave up.

But I still don't think Bryer was a sociopath either. I do think they were both on some kind of substance. I think Kam likely just had enough near the end, and Bryer couldn't commit suicide so Kam did it for him.

I feel like KM made all camera surveillance appearances in the same shirt for kicks. He probably changed into it every time he got out of the car. I can’t remember if the patrol stop in Split Lake mentioned his T-shirt or if he was wearing something else. JMO.

ETA.. found link
“Saunders said the men matched photos of the suspects the RCMP have released, but the two were wearing different clothes, adding no one was in camouflage.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/first-nation-constable-stopped-homicide-suspects-1.5230779

 

[NJSleuth91]

I don't think we can say definitively at this point what their labels were of whatever was wrong with them, or what percentage came from genetics and what percentage came from environment. Sociopathy and psychopathy are both spectrums, also.

(I know researchers sometimes sequence the genomes of infamous criminals -- I wonder if they plan to do that in this case? It would be a waste of useful data if they didn't!)

I think the more useful question is what factors led them to become violent after being non-violent all their lives, what warning signs existed (we already know about some of them), and what interventions can prevent people from becoming violent.

 

[LoisLane]

I had noticed that about Liard Hot Springs, BC to Watson Lake. Even speeding I doubt they could have shaved off 1 hour and 14 minutes. I doubt they could have made it from Haines Junction, YT to Dease Lake without filling up. That truck wasn't good on gas. The whole time frame around Dease Lake to Kitwanga didn't make sense to me either.

I could see the speeding because it was the middle of the night on open highway. They could clock 140-160kmh in that beast I’m guessing, but it would burn a lot of gas. If a bear or moose or deer came out of nowhere that would have been hard to avoid at those speeds. I wonder if anything like that happened.

 

[Runningforthewind]

I could see the speeding because it was the middle of the night on open highway. They could clock 140-160kmh in that beast I’m guessing, but it would burn a lot of gas. If a bear or moose or deer came out of nowhere that would have been hard to avoid at those speeds. I wonder if anything like that happened.

I wonder what the speed limit for that highway is. But at 202 kilometres distance, they would have to drive atleast 130km on average per hour to make it there in 1 hour 14 minutes.

 

[LoisLane]

I wonder what the speed limit for that highway is. But at 202 kilometres distance, they would have to drive atleast 130km on average per hour to make it there in 1 hour 14 minutes.

That seems a manageable speed.

 

[Runningforthewind]

That seems a manageable speed.

But the whole it taking almost 3 hours to do 200ish kilometers seems odd. Maybe there is some areas where the speed limit is lower.

 

[LoisLane]

But the whole it taking almost 3 hours to do 200ish kilometers seems odd. Maybe there is some areas where the speed limit is lower.

Maybe it’s a bumpy road. I see spare tires are a must if travelling up there. Single lane and lots of curves maybe.

 

[cdnjan]

I could see the speeding because it was the middle of the night on open highway. They could clock 140-160kmh in that beast I’m guessing, but it would burn a lot of gas. If a bear or moose or deer came out of nowhere that would have been hard to avoid at those speeds. I wonder if anything like that happened.

I am pretty sure something is wrong with one of the date stamps. It has to be an hour off. I highly doubt Kam will have had much experience with high speed highway driving. There is slim to none places to do that on Vancouver Island. By looking at the highway up there it is very winding so easy to flip a camper while taking a turn at high speed. Plus lots of wildlife for sure, however some were likely bedded down for the night. Nice photos at this website you can see the curves, straight stretches and many critters. My guess is speed limit is maxed at 90km but likely turns are 30 jmho. Spruce will be around to help us
***ETA I just looked at report again and even though they call it Watson Lake Gas station it is not in the town "On July 15, 2019, at 3:25 a.m., surveillance video from a Watson Lake gas station showed a truck consistent with McLeod’s vehicle travelling northbound on Alaska Highway. [This gas station is located 150 kilometers away from Liard River Hot Springs and would take roughly two hours by driving.]" They did it in 1hr 35 min so makes more sense .. fast though geesh

ALASKA HIGHWAY 2017 - Watson Lake to Liard Hotsprings

 

[sprucetip]

I am pretty sure something is wrong with one of the date stamps. It has to be an hour off. I highly doubt Kam will have had much experience with high speed highway driving. There is slim to none places to do that on Vancouver Island. By looking at the highway up there it is very winding so easy to flip a camper while taking a turn at high speed. Plus lots of wildlife for sure, however some were likely bedded down for the night. Nice photos at this website you can see the curves, straight stretches and many critters. My guess is speed limit is maxed at 90km but likely turns are 30 jmho. Spruce will be around to help us

ALASKA HIGHWAY 2017 - Watson Lake to Liard Hotsprings

Haha Sue is my neighbour.

It’s been a couple years since I’ve driven that section but the highway in general is 90km/hr. But very few people do that. Lots of windy sections for sure and wildlife, especially bison are around the hot springs.

But there are also some sections you can speed it up, and in summer when it’s almost always light out, it’s doable. 110-120km/hr is the norm on the Hwy for most people. Tourists however...