Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[CinNC]

@sandbar fair point but I was referring to the hard stuff. PCP, meth, heroine, oxycontin, etc. The stuff you have to go well out of your way to obtain. Not something I can just drive over to the gas station or a dispensary to buy legally.

Actually, we have a few local gas stations where I live where there is almost always someone hanging out in the parking area selling street drugs!

Crazy, right?

 

[CinNC]

I definitely agree with you here. This is a huge tragedy that has victimized many people and I am here because I can’t stop feeling for them all. This does include the KM and BS: the children they were in the past and the young men they *could* have grown up to be had they not gone down this path. I am not in any way condoning their horrible actions. There is no way to justify this violence.

I posted some time last week about how upset I was seeing how KM and BS’ parents were being picked apart on here. I stand by what I said then. The parents of the killers are victims here and nobody has the right to judge them.

One person replied to my post saying that when I was asking for empathy toward AS, I should have been focusing on the Deese, Fowler, and Dyck families. I chose not to engage with this person because I don’t feel that it was offered as a means of thoughtful discussion. If this poster felt that extending compassion and empathy to one person means that you are taking it away from another... well... he/she’s doing it wrong. Empathy grows empathy.

Mental illness is a horrible, invisible disability that can devastate entire families. It lies and distorts and is painful. I know that we all are tainted by our personal biases, and I tend to see most people as doing the best they can with the resources they have. Assuming mental illnesses were at play here, I only wish that these boys had found help long ago. So much pain and tragedy would have been avoided.

Agree, agree, agree.

 

[sandbar]

Actually, we have a few local gas stations where I live where there is almost always someone hanging out in the parking area selling street drugs!

Crazy, right?

I guess my point is that, at least in part, it's arbitrary what differentiates a street drug from a hard drug, a recreational/designer/ "in"/whatever drug. If it alters your way of thinking or behaviour, it's a drug.

To my way of thinking if they used caffeine to jack themselves up or glue, or Ritalin, it's all the same. I would not think any better or worse of them if I found out they were on coffee or PCP...

 

[Jan424]

The question should be "What can we do differently going forward?" Not "Why didn' they just take themselves out instead?" We don't want to wish death on anyone. These two boys weren't always monsters. They had a family who loved them. So what went wrong?

SBM
Let me also clarify further because I'm quoted here .... I also never "wished death" on these 2 young men .... what I do wish, though, is that they never did what they did ... that they never were suicidal and never killed 3 complete strangers. Sadly, they did so here we are. None of us really know much about them, who they truly were before all this. Therefore, we just cannot figure out, at this juncture, what went wrong. MOO

 

[CinNC]

I guess my point is that, at least in part, it's arbitrary what differentiates a street drug from a hard drug, a recreational/designer/ "in"/whatever drug. If it alters your way of thinking or behaviour, it's a drug.

To my way of thinking if they used caffeine to jack themselves up or glue, or Ritalin, it's all the same. I would not think any better or worse of them if I found out they were on coffee or PCP...

I agree with everything you have said.

I know they were young, but for one person to do that amount of driving (and not just once, but several times over the course of a short period of time) seems beyond what most people are capable of without more rest and sleep.

 

[Esprite]

Been wondering if the RCMP report indicated that the licence plates from Kam's truck were transferred to Prof Dyck's Rav4. If so, I somehow missed that detail.

 

[sandbar]

dbm

 

[sandbar]

Been wondering if the RCMP report indicated that the licence plates from Kam's truck were transferred to Prof Dyck's Rav4. If so, I somehow missed that detail.

Do you think K&B swapped out the plates?

 

[Esprite]

Do you think K&B swapped out the plates?

Hard to say, but they did attempt to avoid detection by applying racing stripes with electrical tape, and destroying Kam's truck.

 

[poupetty77]

I didn't mean to single you out. It was just your comment that spark my thoughts. This whole case had brought out a lot of different thoughts and emotions, and I don't even know these two.

I thought it was just me. What Kam and Bryer did was unforgivable and there is no excuse. They shouldn't have hurt three beautiful innocent people and their families. But I hurt for them too, and their families. I felt a bit of anger after the conference, but now it is only sadness. Deep sadness all around. Every aspect of this case is desperately sad. It has touched me more than I thought it could. I wish it didn't catch my attention in the first place.

Not that anybody care about my feelings. But I wish there was an inquest that could find what happened. Not to point a finger at anyone but to find solutions to apply to make sure it doesn't happen again. I know there is not always a cause to be found, but that would reduce the sadness I (and other people too hopefully) feel.

 

[sandbar]

Hard to say, but they did attempt to avoid detection by applying racing stripes with electrical tape, and destroying Kam's truck.

I can't explain the racing stripes, but I always saw the burning of the camper (and the Rav4) as more of a calling card or an eff you, than avoidance...

 

[poupetty77]

I can't explain the racing stripes, but I always saw the burning of the camper (and the Rav4) as more of a calling card or an eff you, than avoidance...

Somebody mentioned they apparently used elements of the game they were playing. Is there a car with those stripes on in it by any chance?

 

[CanadianSleuther]

Do you think K&B swapped out the plates?

I highly doubt it. If any officer were to run the plates they would have been pulled over instantly. They had a head start and since they took all Leonard's ID, by the time they even figured out the SUV was stolen they were long gone. Even if they were to get pulled over, they could say they were borrowing the vehicle.

 

[Esprite]

I highly doubt it. If any officer were to run the plates they would have been pulled over instantly. They had a head start and since they took all Leonard's ID, by the time they even figured out the SUV was stolen they were long gone. Even if they were to get pulled over, they could say they were borrowing the vehicle.

Yes, but how do you explain the racing stripes, and perhaps they changed the licence numbers slightly with small applications of paint.

 

[Moriarty]

Been wondering if the RCMP report indicated that the licence plates from Kam's truck were transferred to Prof Dyck's Rav4. If so, I somehow missed that detail.

No, they didn't switch plates. From the Report: "Police located a burnt license plate which was determined to be from a Dodge pick-up truck registered to Kam McLeod from Port Alberni, British Columbia"

 

[Esprite]

I can't explain the racing stripes, but I always saw the burning of the camper (and the Rav4) as more of a calling card or an eff you, than avoidance...

Yes, I also believed this at first, until the racing stripes became a focal point.

 

[ktm44]

Do you think K&B swapped out the plates?

I thought I read in either the published police report or a recent article that the truck was quickly as being Kam's by the burned license plate found with the truck.

 

[Moriarty]

Yes, but how do you explain the racing stripes

The racing stripes made from electrical tape do seem odd, but then so does a lot of things about these two. I know the RCMP thought the tape was purchased to help disguise the Rav, and then there is surveillance of the Rav with the stripes. Clearly, it doesn't disguise anything. A Rav is a Rav...you can't change how they look with a bit of tape, and to anyone standing close to them, it is really going to stand out that it is electrical tape not paint. The RCMP also suggested that the stripes don't appear on the Rav until surveillance in Thompson, MB, which also makes no sense.

There is a bit of a sick joke there though for K and B whether intended or not, publicly displaying their trophy from their murders as they zoom down the highways: three stripes for three victims.

 

[ktm44]

Yes, but how do you explain the racing stripes, and perhaps they changed the licence numbers slightly with small applications of paint.

The idea of racing stripes doesn't need to come from a game. I know of a few young guys that wanted their first vehicle to be a bit more flashy and fashioned racing stripes out of tape.

The easiest way to avoid having one's plate overly visible is to simply make a trip down a muddy road but I have a feeling that they did a lot of their driving at night.

 

[Moriarty]

I have a feeling that they did a lot of their driving at night.

SBM

I think that was initially true as well, but after July 19, a lot of the sightings were during daylight hours: Kitwanga at 11:30 am, Vanderhoof at 5:00 pm, Fairview at 5:30 pm, Meadow Lake at 2:30 pm, Thompson at 1:10 pm. And that car looks mighty clean in that surveillance image of Kam filling up:

I don't really believe deception and disguise were paramount for these two.