Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #9

[Deleted member 248860]

There have been a couple of comments criticising the fact that the RCMP did not publicly name the victims right away. This turns out to be an issue on which police forces vary in their practice.

Since 2015, the RCMP have not routinely released the names of people who have died in car crashes, murders, drownings, etc., and of course they can’t in any event until they have figured out who the victim is, and they wait until they have notified relatives.

They are applying tests in the Canadian Federal Privacy Act, under which they will disclose the names of people who have died only if one of three criteria is satisfied:

• The information is already publicly available.
• Disclosure is necessary to further an investigation.
• In the opinion of the institution [RCMP] public interest in disclosure clearly outweighs any invasion of privacy that could result from the disclosure, or disclosure would clearly benefit the individual to whom the information relates.

In this case, it’s unclear when identification/notification happened. We do know that Australian authorities released the name of Lucas Fowler, obviously based on information provided by the RCMP, before the RCMP did.

 

[Gina20]

I would think the RCMP would like to put the minds of the public at peace. If charges were laid in the deaths of Lucas & Chynna that would set my mind at ease. As it stands right now we, the public are not certain if BS & KM are responsible or if there is a person (s) out shooting people on the side of the highway. Canada is in major tourist season, so many travelling this beautuful country, everyone is fearful until we have some concrete info, like charges, how can anyone feel safe?

Coincidentally, this article claims that nothing will stop people from travelling to Alaska. The draw and the lore of the place is just too strong.

Many of those people will travel the Alaska Highway, just like Chynna and Lucas.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappen...nto-the-wild-won-t-stop-adventurers-1.5228705

 

[Estrojane]

rbbm.
Schmegelsky and McLeod likely desperate, 'at each other's throats': former U.S. Marshal
“I’ve hunted down the most violent felony fugitives across the globe, terrorists, murderers, rapists, arsonists, gun-runners, drug-runners – the worst of the worst,” DePaul says.

The now-retired commander believes at this point, Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky know it’s just a matter of time before they’re caught.

Yes, but has he ever hunted two older misfit teens that share an unusually solid and unholy alliance since childhood, who trained for more than two years to live out some sort of 3-D gaming fantasy in the woods involving "the art of war" and "masters of camouflage"?

Very different from two adult violent felony fugitives getting together and fleeing.

Usually it is alway just a matter of time before anybody is caught, no big revelation there.

Big talk.

 

[Moriarty]

The teens are suspects in three murders. There are no other suspects. Charges have been laid in relation to one of the murders, which means there is evidence for that murder and suspicion for the other two. I suspect that the evidence is that the teens' truck was burned near the 3rd victim and the teens were driving that victim's vehicle.

I'm pretty sure that most people would not feel any different about the suspects of the three murders, nor would their minds be at ease, if more charges were laid. Do we really need to see charges for multiple murders to accept warnings from police that the teens are dangerous?

I agree. And further to this and a previous discussion about why only 2nd degree charge for the arrest warrant, if I may...I wanted to chime in earlier, but it takes me an hour to drive to work and you all keep typing so whole new threads rise and fall before I get a chance. So my 2 cents (CDN) (3.7 cents US):

The guy in the office next to me at work is a former criminal defense attorney, so I asked him about the warrant and charges, etc. Like I and several others have said here before, an arrest warrant opens up investigative powers for immediate use that aren't necessarily available when only engaging suspects.

When the lawyers went before the judge or jp to get that warrant, the evidence at the time clearly supported the 2nd degree charges. It doesn't mean LE can't change the charges down the road when an arrest is made or further evidence is brought forward.

What my guy said as a defense attorney is that there is a very real danger when LE seeks more severe charges in the arrest warrant stage or exaggerates or perhaps emphasizes certain facts more strongly than could be warranted. Should an arrest happen, any competent defense attorney will look at the arrest warrant and if they see anything out of the norm or questionable, they will challenge the arrest and all evidence that arises from the arrest. He said this doesn't happen very often, but he himself has successfully argued such a motion.

Just food for thought. Please ignore if redundant at this point.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

I am not in law enforcement, so there might be reasoning I’m not aware of, but I’m really curious why would they pull *all* RCMP out of York Landing after a very credible sighting...

The RCMP lost confidence in the alleged “sighting”. Watch the video of the person who made the sighting, instead of Mr. Flavel’s account to the media, and you may start to see why. Mr. Flavel not only didn’t make the sighting, he wasn’t even at York Landing. He is, however, good at calling the press.

 

[otto]

So who WERE the 2 thin tall young white men seen by Bear Clan at the dump, one wearing a camo jacket, rummaging through the dump (something locals apparently don’t do)? And then running into the woods when spotted, which also seems suspect?

Just because the RCMP couldn’t find the people sighted doesn’t mean the sighting wasn’t credible, IMO.

No one was seen at the dump.

People at York Landing thought that the suspects could follow the hydro lines from Fox Lake Cree Nation (where the vehicle was burned) to York Landing, and that no one was protecting them. They were so afraid that the Bear Clan was asked to go from Winnipeg to the community to help them feel safe. As soon as the Bear Clan arrived, residents reported that the suspects were in the area.

Just because fearful people imagine that a bear is a person, it doesn't mean the claim is credible.

 

[Estrojane]

Also, a small thing but most media reports stated or implied that McLeod and Schmegelsky got Summer jobs at Walmart straight after graduation.

McLeod graduated in 2018, not 2019.
If you ‘inadvertently’ helped two suspected killers escape, please come forward, RCMP urge

Schmegelsky didn’t graduate at all.

No idea what they’ve been doing for the past year (previous job? bumming around? planning something?) but they didn’t go from school to Walmart. It’d be interesting to know whether the store had a spike in missing or stolen items (like hunting equipment or weapons) during the few weeks they worked there.

Right! Thinking about this also. Was working at Walmart just a cover for lifting items?

 

[Hatfield]

interesting
a man had helped them pull the rav4 out of mud july 21
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudb...n-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940

That is interesting.

What could they have been doing that made them get stuck in a field. Maybe just trying to pull off the main road to get some sleep or something. Or maybe that was the initial planned spot to burn the Rav4.

Would be nice to get that location on our pinned map that someone kindly shared yesterday. Not sure if we know the exact location of where they got stuck though.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudb...n-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940

 

[jmcgladr]

The RCMP lost confidence in the alleged “sighting”. Watch the video of the person who made the sighting, instead of Mr. Flavel’s account to the media, and you may start to see why. Mr. Flavel not only didn’t make the sighting, he wasn’t even at York Landing. He is, however, good at calling the press.

I’ll try to locate this video when I have time - but what, pray tell, would the motivation be for making up a detailed sighting like this?

 

[jmcgladr]

No one was seen at the dump.

People at York Landing thought that the suspects could follow the hydro lines from Fox Lake Cree Nation (where the vehicle was burned) to York Landing, and that no one was protecting them. They were so afraid that the Bear Clan was asked to go from Winnipeg to the community to help them feel safe. As soon as the Bear Clan arrived, residents reported that the suspects were in the area.

Just because fearful people imagine that a bear is a person, it doesn't mean the claim is credible.

How could people mistake a bear for 2 teen boys?

 

[otto]

There have been a couple of comments criticising the fact that the RCMP did not publicly name the victims right away. This turns out to be an issue on which police forces vary in their practice.

Since 2015, the RCMP have not routinely released the names of people who have died in car crashes, murders, drownings, etc., and of course they can’t in any event until they have figured out who the victim is, and they wait until they have notified relatives.

They are applying tests in the Canadian Federal Privacy Act, under which they will disclose the names of people who have died only if one of three criteria is satisfied:

• The information is already publicly available.
• Disclosure is necessary to further an investigation.
• In the opinion of the institution [RCMP] public interest in disclosure clearly outweighs any invasion of privacy that could result from the disclosure, or disclosure would clearly benefit the individual to whom the information relates.

In this case, it’s unclear when identification/notification happened. We do know that Australian authorities released the name of Lucas Fowler, obviously based on information provided by the RCMP, before the RCMP did.

It took 3 days to identify the first two victims, and 4 days to identify the third victim. As soon as the victims were identified and next of kin was notified, they were named by RCMP.

The first 2 victims were named on July 18 and the 3rd victim was named on July 24. The first victims were identified after Deese's passport was found hidden in the van, and I believe that the 3rd victim was identified using the licence plates on the Rav4.

 

[Gardenista]

The RCMP lost confidence in the alleged “sighting”. Watch the video of the person who made the sighting, instead of Mr. Flavel’s account to the media, and you may start to see why. Mr. Flavel not only didn’t make the sighting, he wasn’t even at York Landing. He is, however, good at calling the press.

I've only seen a snippet from the interview with the person who saw them. Can you please post a link to the whole interview?

 

[Gina20]

There have been a couple of comments criticising the fact that the RCMP did not publicly name the victims right away. This turns out to be an issue on which police forces vary in their practice.

Since 2015, the RCMP have not routinely released the names of people who have died in car crashes, murders, drownings, etc., and of course they can’t in any event until they have figured out who the victim is, and they wait until they have notified relatives.

They are applying tests in the Canadian Federal Privacy Act, under which they will disclose the names of people who have died only if one of three criteria is satisfied:

• The information is already publicly available.
• Disclosure is necessary to further an investigation.
• In the opinion of the institution [RCMP] public interest in disclosure clearly outweighs any invasion of privacy that could result from the disclosure, or disclosure would clearly benefit the individual to whom the information relates.

In this case, it’s unclear when identification/notification happened. We do know that Australian authorities released the name of Lucas Fowler, obviously based on information provided by the RCMP, before the RCMP did.

I have put some thought into why the Australian police would release the shooting information.

Would any family want to have their deceased loved one called a "suspicious death", knowing the real cause of death, and knowing that people make assumptions about such terms (i.e. opioid death, murder-suicide, etc.) No, I don't think so.

They were going to hold a funeral. Families want the truth, and the truth is that Lucas and Chynna were murdered. That is painful, but not as painful as not being able to tell the truth. What purpose would concealing the truth serve? It would cause them more suffering, and they are already suffering enough. These families are victims, too, and victims have rights.

 

[Moriarty]

I find it strange that there have not been more confirmed sightings of the two at this point, given their notoriety. I know they have only been suspects for a week, but they have been front page news for a while and while maybe not a top concern for people in the south or rest of Canada, anyone working along their route would likely be very aware of who they are and would come forward for their 15 minutes of fame with the media.

For the past 18 days (approximately since we are only assuming the July 12 departure date for now based on texts to granny and dad), we have four confirmed sightings: the Jade City store near Dease Lake, Cold Lake, Meadow Lake, Split Lake...and the burned Rav4 near Fox Lake First Nations (that's a whole lotta lakes).

I just thought by now more info would have leaked out about other sightings.
JMO

 

[Deleted member 248860]

I’ll try to locate this video when I have time - but what, pray tell, would the motivation be for making up a detailed sighting like this?

It doesn’t need to be made up out of whole cloth. It just needs to be an amateur seeing less than he thought later. This Bear Clan outfit has no training. They are just ordinary people who, in this case, were acting like Neighbourhood Watch.

There is a big gap between what Mr. Gilhetty says happened in his brief interview and what Mr. Flavel told the media. Neither even says that the people seen were white. It’s very unclear whether Gilhetty was even close enough to know.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

rbbm.
Schmegelsky and McLeod likely desperate, 'at each other's throats': former U.S. Marshal
“I’ve hunted down the most violent felony fugitives across the globe, terrorists, murderers, rapists, arsonists, gun-runners, drug-runners – the worst of the worst,” DePaul says.

The now-retired commander believes at this point, Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky know it’s just a matter of time before they’re caught.

“They’ve got to shift gears at a moment’s notice if they’re out there in the wilderness somewhere, desperate, probably no provisions. They’re probably at each other’s throats,” he says, adding they likely have no idea who they can trust.


“These kids are out there, they’re desperate. I believe there’s a weapon involved. I don’t think the gun has been recovered. Human instincts turn into animal instincts. You don’t know what they’re going to do.”
DePaul says that’s why people who might be at risk in rural Manitoba communities need to cooperate with police and stay safe."

“Leave your lights on at night. You’ve got a dog, keep him out back. These folks are sleeping with one eye open, I’m sure. I’ve been there. I’ve chased people that have been on the run like this — serial killers and escape cases — I mean, I’ve chased ghosts in the past. You don’t know who they are for weeks.”

Thank you. I agree with everything he has said.

I do not believe they have died from the elements, and I certainly dont believe they have committed suicide either.

These two spree killers have to be psychopaths, and rarely if ever do they kill themselves... even though they have no qualms about murdering any innocent victim in cold blood.

I watch many true crime shows about couples who team up together to do horrific murders, and it's always astounded me how easily one psychopath can quickly recognize another psychopath.. knowing they will gleefully participate in committing gruesome homicides.

I believe it wont be long before LE closed in on them. They are now the hunted, and no longer the hunters of other human beings unless they have already murdered again, and its unknown at this time to LE.

Jmhoo

 

[otto]

I agree. And further to this and a previous discussion about why only 2nd degree charge for the arrest warrant, if I may...I wanted to chime in earlier, but it takes me an hour to drive to work and you all keep typing so whole new threads rise and fall before I get a chance. So my 2 cents (CDN) (3.7 cents US):

The guy in the office next to me at work is a former criminal defense attorney, so I asked him about the warrant and charges, etc. Like I and several others have said here before, an arrest warrant opens up investigative powers for immediate use that aren't necessarily available when only engaging suspects.

When the lawyers went before the judge or jp to get that warrant, the evidence at the time clearly supported the 2nd degree charges. It doesn't mean LE can't change the charges down the road when an arrest is made or further evidence is brought forward.

What my guy said as a defense attorney is that there is a very real danger when LE seeks more severe charges in the arrest warrant stage or exaggerates or perhaps emphasizes certain facts more strongly than could be warranted. Should an arrest happen, any competent defense attorney will look at the arrest warrant and if they see anything out of the norm or questionable, they will challenge the arrest and all evidence that arises from the arrest. He said this doesn't happen very often, but he himself has successfully argued such a motion.

Just food for thought. Please ignore if redundant at this point.

I agree. Laying charges for one murder gives police access to all resources to pursue a full nationwide manhunt. Second degree murder charges means they believe they can prove that the teens murdered Dr Leonard Dyck, but they aren't ready to say it was premeditated. I suspect that the charges will be changed to first degree after an arrest since the teens murdered him because they wanted his vehicle.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1578494531849/

Wow, just saw this and it brought me to this thread.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

As more times goes by I think the suspects are deceased, either by their own hands or by misfortune while on the run in the wilderness outside Gillam.

- If they committed suicide, I think it is possible that they might have liked the idea of never being found/caught since, in this case, their story might continue as an unsolved mystery.
- And if the suspects intentionally set out to kill and then commit suicide in the woods, they might prefer being remembered as “escaped outlaws” who could continue to create fear on the part of the public and appear to have outwitted/frustrated law enforcement. Dying on their own terms could be seen as more under their control/better than a shootout/capture scenario that might end with pain/injury and long incarceration.

Furthermore, if they are dead in the wilderness, i think It might be many years and only by luck that they are ever found. To support this idea, I recommend looking at the case of Savannah Spurlock

- Savannah disappeared six months ago and her body was recently found in a shallow grave on a Kentucky farm. This farm was searched with dogs six months ago but the body was not found. Search dogs did not find her on this property and only the fact the suspect’s father smelled an odor and informed the police recently led to another search of the property and the recovery of the body. My main point: if it was this hard to find a body on a Kentucky farm (which was the subject of a previous intense police search), how much harder might it prove to ever find these Canadian men’s bodies in this wilderness? There may not be any answers.

(See Websleuths thread for Savannah Spurlock and this news article for details - Six months after Savannah Spurlock disappeared, her body was found. Here's what to know )

A year later we might still be wondering whatever happened to those teens.

 

[LovesPeace2]

Do the Keeyask to Thompson shuttle buses require ID, or do they just assume that if you're there, you're legit?

Coming to Keeyask – Keeyask

Nope you don’t need ids to get on their just pay for a ticket