Casey's Confinement, Mail; Visitors; Phone Calls; Commissary etc.

[DollyPardonMe]

Because other than stealing, lying, her sexual behavior, and one time her saying she hadn't slept in 4 days- there have been no other Bipolar-like "behaviors" tied to Casey. There is a hell of a lot more to Bipolar then that. Besides that, as I have said before I cannot see a person with Bipolar killing their child and being able to live with themselves afterwords.

Other than that, she has CLASSIC symptoms of the personality disordered... fitting almost every tiny criteria there is.

Whether she has bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder, I do believe she killed little Caylee. Remember, there are women out there that have killed their child, Susan Smith for instance, that did not have any disorder and have been able to live with themself.

 

[ValleyGirl]

Lying, stealing, partying, not sleeping for four days...to this untrained person it appears to be more of a short time meth user. I don't think she's been using it long enough for it to become detrimental to her looks (hair, skin, teeth), just long enough for it to make her crazy.

Can that be used as a defense?

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yes, I know. But, bipolar disorder tends to run in families and borderline personality disorder is is a product of child rearing and personal choice. Cindy could be the poster child for Bipolar disorder so I was saying that it is quite possible that Casey could also suffer from the disorder. It was just my opinion.

Huh.. have you ever looked up Borderline personality disorder? I'm just not seeing Cindy OR Casey as Bipolar. Cindy reminds me so much of my mother it makes me sick to my stomach.

I have Bipolar disorder and I don't degrade my child in front of his friends, I don't lie to peoples faces and then deny the lie 2 minutes later.. I don't allow my child to steal from my mother, or from me. I certainly wouldn't cover or lie to LE for my child if he was suspected of killing my grandchild. No way I would steal money that was donated in good faith to help in the search for my grandchild. A nurse of decomposition? ha!

Ain't no Bipolar I ever heard of, I don't care how manic one is! Personality disorder, yep. Casey learned everything she knows from her mother.

I mean, come on- I admit, I have done a lot of messed up but do you really want people to think that is how people with Bipolar behave because I sure don't! Like I'd look up cloroform on the internet, invent a babysitter, muder my child, party it up for a month like nothing ever happened. We do have souls.



IMO

 

[Tuba]

I think Casey has all of the symptoms of Bipolar I. This could be her first bout and maybe she has only experienced the manic side thus far.

Add to your lay diagnosis the fact that friends of Casey have said that she was bipolar. She has seen a psychologist counselor while confined and that individual may have an opinion of her mental state but we haven't seen any psychiatric evaluation (from a court psychiatrist). She had a seizure at the end of last year. There may be some hospital record from that time, with comments.

The two poles of bi-polarity are depression and mania. There is certainly a degree of depression that is psychotic. Catatonics are there. But when someone is depressed we don't automatically term them psychotic. In fact, many people shrug & say, "Get over it!" Nor more should we declare someone going through a manic or hypomanic phase, psychotic. Again, a matter of degree.

In no wise am I saying she is legally insane or a candidate for such a defense. I am saying, with Yellow Dog, that there are symptoms of mania or hypomania in this woman. I have seen people on cocaine who exhibit similar behavior while high and who are mean, angry and volatile when they need a fix. We have seen her like that in jail and her friends have seen that side of her often. Maybe she is an addict. Cocaine or a cheap substitute and there are many. When she was jerking around in that first jail video and checking the room compulsively, she looked like she was coming off some drug. Very, very shaky.

Do not expect Cindy to cop to any moral, emotional or mental flaw in her daughter, even if she has seen it in writing from someone who should know. She is suppressing any such statements or written records.

 

[OneLostGrl]

And why does that not surprise me? IMO, KC has never been called on the carpet for anything she's done wrong. Her parents allowed her to grow up lying and stealing, covering up her little indiscretions until she turned into the mom-ster she is today. And Caylee's death is the result.

Yep. Very sad. Some people should not be allowed to have children!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Whether she has bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder, I do believe she killed little Caylee. Remember, there are women out there that have killed their child, Susan Smith for instance, that did not have any disorder and have been able to live with themself.

I know there are women who kill and live with themselves afterwords. I was refering to a person with Bipolar disorder.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Lying, stealing, partying, not sleeping for four days...to this untrained person it appears to be more of a short time meth user. I don't think she's been using it long enough for it to become detrimental to her looks (hair, skin, teeth), just long enough for it to make her crazy.

Can that be used as a defense?

I don't know enough about the law to answer that question. I'd be talking out my a$$ if I did. I don't think she was on meth though but that's just MO.

 

[ValleyGirl]

I have seen people on cocaine who exhibit similar behavior while high and who are mean, angry and volatile when they need a fix. We have seen her like that in jail and her friends have seen that side of her often. Maybe she is an addict. Cocaine or a cheap substitute and there are many. When she was jerking around in that first jail video and checking the room compulsively, she looked like she was coming off some drug. Very, very shaky.

Do not expect Cindy to cop to any moral, emotional or mental flaw in her daughter, even if she has seen it in writing from someone who should know. She is suppressing any such statements or written records.

Tuba,

Do you have a link to that first jail video? I don't know how I missed that!

TIA!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Add to your lay diagnosis the fact that friends of Casey have said that she was bipolar. She has seen a psychologist counselor while confined and that individual may have an opinion of her mental state but we haven't seen any psychiatric evaluation (from a court psychiatrist). She had a seizure at the end of last year. There may be some hospital record from that time, with comments.

The two poles of bi-polarity are depression and mania. There is certainly a degree of depression that is psychotic. Catatonics are there. But when someone is depressed we don't automatically term them psychotic. In fact, many people shrug & say, "Get over it!" Nor more should we declare someone going through a manic or hypomanic phase, psychotic. Again, a matter of degree.

In no wise am I saying she is legally insane or a candidate for such a defense. I am saying, with Yellow Dog, that there are symptoms of mania or hypomania in this woman. I have seen people on cocaine who exhibit similar behavior while high and who are mean, angry and volatile when they need a fix. We have seen her like that in jail and her friends have seen that side of her often. Maybe she is an addict. Cocaine or a cheap substitute and there are many. When she was jerking around in that first jail video and checking the room compulsively, she looked like she was coming off some drug. Very, very shaky.

Do not expect Cindy to cop to any moral, emotional or mental flaw in her daughter, even if she has seen it in writing from someone who should know. She is suppressing any such statements or written records.

What first jail video are you refering to? I don't recall her ever jerking around or seeming shaky or compulsively checking the room in any jail videos. Do you have a link for this?

I know what depression, mania, and psychosis looks like and I'm just saying, there is no chance in hell they can get away with using an insanity defense for this woman.

ETA- Ya ever pay any attention to her mothers behaviors, how her mother acts? Cindy's pretty mean, angry and volatile herself.. you ever think Casey's behaviors can be explained by simply looking at her mom? Why is it that people need to have something outside of these types of people to blame for their behaviors? Children learn what they live after all.

 

[LinasK]

I agree. Usually when someone is angry they squint their eyes. I see no signs of anger in her face, she looks to me like she's questioning Baez about something or listening intently to something he's saying.

Look at the tightness of her lips in that photo. It screams pissed off. It's not just her eyes, but the total facial expression you have to take into account...

 

[LinasK]

I sure wouldn't trust a nurse to tell me what my health problems may or may not be.

Then you haven't been to a nurse practitioner. Many take the place of doctors.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

Huh.. have you ever looked up Borderline personality disorder? I'm just not seeing Cindy OR Casey as Bipolar. Cindy reminds me so much of my mother it makes me sick to my stomach.

I have Bipolar disorder and I don't degrade my child in front of his friends, I don't lie to peoples faces and then deny the lie 2 minutes later.. I don't allow my child to steal from my mother, or from me. I certainly wouldn't cover or lie to LE for my child if he was suspected of killing my grandchild. No way I would steal money that was donated in good faith to help in the search for my grandchild. A nurse of decomposition? ha!

Ain't no Bipolar I ever heard of, I don't care how manic one is! Personality disorder, yep. Casey learned everything she knows from her mother.

I mean, come on- I admit, I have done a lot of messed up but do you really want people to think that is how people with Bipolar behave because I sure don't! Like I'd look up cloroform on the internet, invent a babysitter, muder my child, party it up for a month like nothing ever happened. We do have souls.



IMO

Yes, in fact I just looked up Borderline Personality Disorder at the National Institute of Mental Health website. The disorders are very similar. I too am bipolar. I suffered with it for 30 years before a psychiatrist was able to give me a correct diagnosis. It's very easy to hide if you don't want a psychiatrist to find it. That's where the charm comes in. I also have OCD and when I'm not compulsively on here I'm in the kitchen on the floor with a toothbrush scrubbing my tile. I guess I should be grateful that after 30 years and the right medication, that is the extent of my symptoms. I guess I was alot like Casey in my 20's. Scary, huh? But, now, the only time I would use a stripper pole is to pull myself up to get my fat a$$ up off a chair so as not to hurt my aching hips! All in all, she could just be a Bad Seed!

 

[nancy botwin]

Lying, stealing, partying, not sleeping for four days...to this untrained person it appears to be more of a short time meth user. I don't think she's been using it long enough for it to become detrimental to her looks (hair, skin, teeth), just long enough for it to make her crazy.

Can that be used as a defense?

No. In some states, voluntary intoxication can be a defense to certain crimes, in that it can negate the ability to form "specific intent" to commit the offense. Voluntary intoxication generally includes intoxication due to alcohol and/or the misuse or abuse of prescription or illicit substances.
In Florida, voluntary intoxication is never a defense. This rule also includes mental disturbances due to voluntary intoxication (ie drug -induced mania or psychosis, etc).

Florida Statute 775.051
Voluntary intoxication resulting from the consumption, injection, or other use of alcohol or other controlled substance as described in chapter 893 is not a defense to any offense proscribed by law. Evidence of a defendant's voluntary intoxication is not admissible to show that the defendant lacked the specific intent to commit an offense and is not admissible to show that the defendant was insane at the time of the offense, except when the consumption, injection, or use of a controlled substance under chapter 893 was pursuant to a lawful prescription issued to the defendant by a practitioner as defined in s. 893.02.


Re: Casey is bipolar discussions

OneLostGirl, IMO, provides great insight on this issue whenever it comes up. But it keeps coming up, and I wanted to add something. I've recently started a grad program in psychology and every single professor I've had has, at some point, abruptly stopped mid-lecture to release an impassioned diatribe about how grossly misunderstood bipolar disorder and mania truly are. They have all espoused a belief that a number of factors, including commercials for bipolar meds, have led to the erroneous belief that bipolar disorder is relatively common. They also shared a belief that bipolar disorder is becoming the most over-diagnosed illness in the mental health field, analogizing it to the "new ADHD."

I don't believe Casey is bipolar. I do see, however, how a lot of her behavior could match up to a loose read of the diagnostic criteria for bipolar disorder. Look at the diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia and you'll probably get as many, if not MORE, matches to Casey. She's not schizophrenic. She's not bipolar.

 

[nancy botwin]

Whether she has bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder, I do believe she killed little Caylee. Remember, there are women out there that have killed their child, Susan Smith for instance, that did not have any disorder and have been able to live with themself.

Susan Smith was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and dependent personality disorder.

 

[ArtichokeHeart]

Ummmm........I can assure you the inmates are NOT supporting Casey or her lies. You think the protestors were bad???? These women in county are probably screaming at Casey to tell the truth and stop the BS every chance they get.

County jail is a cake walk compared to where she is going. The women in county are all awaiting sentencing, or just in there short term. The woman in prison are there for two years to life. The lifers are the ones with the most pent up hate for little girls who kill their babys. They have nothing to lose and will stick Casey the first chance they get. She better hope she gets death row, because if she is put in general population she's done.

Listen, no one can prove for sure she killed Caylee and Casey is a good lier and manipulator and gets along well with people. She will tell her lying tale in there and gain many supporters. Prison life isnt fun for anyone.

She is also smart not to spend money in the commissary. What is there to spend on...fattening junk food ? Don't be fooled by labels such as 'shrimp coctail' its all roadkill in taste and quality. A bra...big deal won't be anything like the one she came in with or bought at target, later on she might opt for a radio for local buzz.

You all want such vengence. It may be human but it is also human to check oneself ...something you want but don't really want because it is projecting your own anger regarding your own life and taking it out on her. And it will not make you happy it just occupies time and takes up space...were she to die it would leave an empty gap for ypu to go elsewhere to take out your vengence. Hunters become like the animal they hunt. Gota stand back.

I believe in the idea of the witch in this manner...say you have a terrible mother ...you take your angry passion out on an imaginary mythical monster , call it a witch separating it from the actual flesh/spirit based mother who lies dormant underneath. And in true spiritual quest you actually do kill the witch by throwing water on it ...water meaning true feeling. It isn't that easy...it means curing the person and one goes on a quest out of love to find the answer.

Some people cannot be alone with themselves and that is a serious problem. Casey has enough inner life to keep her occupied and as she admitted on tape she is suffering though I admit she doesn't seem to understand her guilt or responsibility. Beating her up isn't going to change that.
The woman is sick.

 

[Oakley]

Question for posters who have worked in jails/prisons (or anyone who might know): if KC has a hard time in jail physically, emotionally, etc, can clergy or a doctor arrange to get her some relief in there? Or does she have to simply "tough it out?"

 

[Brini]

CA called it correctly then way back before any of this happened when she told Ryan P that KC was a "Sociopath."

She did, indeed. Her own little Rhoda Penmark, IMHO.

 

[Brini]

Ah but bipolars do. Grandiosity is one of the symptoms.

So are uncontrollable hypomanic/manic and depressive cycles.

KC is not bipolar. She could not maintain a calm demeanor over a period of time, if she was. She'd either be bouncing off walls or curled up in the fetal position, in bed, for days on end.

There would also be an excellent chance that while on an up-cycle, she'd blurt out the truth.

With respect, I don't think we are gonna find an Axis I disorder that could be sold to a jury.

Besides, LE has had a psych eval done. My guess is that it came out at least ASPD and NPD. She fits both TOO well. IMHO

 

[Brini]

That's really a shame. When you are in the hospital we are the ones who spend most of the time with you. We are usually the ones who notice if you take a turn for the worst, having an allergic reaction to a medication, if your BP is way off. Your doctor & your nurse are a team. Together we strive to give you the best care possible.

Yep. Much of the time, the nurse tells the doctor what's wrong.

I'm afraid that if you get sick, you will HAVE to trust the nurse. The doctor is likely to see you, in the hospital, for about two minutes. S/he relies on what the nurse wrote down. The nurse is the doctors eyes and ears. That's why we do all the patient management. And, that's why we take a licensure test.

I just recently did that with a CHF patient. She was doing fine. Then, one day, my glib, witty, and well-informed patient was reaching for words. So, I checked her ankles. The nurses, here, KNOW what I found. The nurses also know what I did next.

 

[Brini]

I didn't realize she had been written or spoken about by a diagnostician claiming her to be "sociopathic". I didn't realize any doctors had covered this.

Check the Net and watch the psychiatric talking heads on TV.