CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #37

[SCHMAE]

www.drphil.com Does not list the Redwines on this week's show list.
That was a typo or some more super sloppy reporting like we've seen
so much of during this case !

OT but geez, his site is C R A P ... the video segment for what's coming in february is so lame
it cuts out every 2 seconds. Man up Phil , buy more space !

 

[Ghostwheel]

LE often says not "considered" a suspect or not "named" a suspect. More often than not, they never actually name a suspect. Means nothing. Irrelevant. Nada, zip, zilch, zippo. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt to prove it.

Can I get one of those "I'm not considered a suspect" T-shirts?

As an aside, LE does not like to name anyone as a considered suspect, because then that person won't talk to LE anymore. That's why the term POI came up. So that people wouldn't think they were a suspect, just a person of interest, who might have some information. It's not that LE might think they are a suspect, but face it, a lot of people are afraid of being accused of something they did not do, and if they have the slightest inclination to believe they are a suspect, goodbye.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

In the uncut interview, he said he wanted to get to the office as soon as they opened before payroll went out.

Yes I know. Do you know what time the lawyers appointment was for?

 

[azgrandma]

Thank you. I'm starting to get a picture of a very independent 13 year old with parents that were not all that concerned about him - parents that trusted him to make good decisions. That is, they normally trusted that all was well, so if he did not come home at night and did not phone to update them on his plans, no one was concerned.
That fits well with dad not being concerned when he came home from errands and Dylan wasn't home. That also fits well with Dylan taking things into his own hands when he wanted to visit at friend at maybe 8 AM.

#878 the post that you were responding to was when ER would say that DR would call and let her know where he landed for the night. I don't know how to bring that one over so we all can see.
BBM
IMO - the context of the question & answer was in regards to when DR was in Bayfield, not day to day activities. IMO that when DR went to Bayfield, since ER was in Colo Spgs, he would contact her and let her know where he was, if he was staying the night with someone.

IMO it doesn't mean that no one was concerned if he didn't come home at night. IMO it means that if DR was out of town, in MR's custody, ER would be made aware by DR if he was going to be at a friends house for the night. IMO, ER would get very concerned if her 13 yo son did not return home when expected while he was in her custody.

 

[dlc]

azgrandma I am so sorry for your pain and frustration above. To be honest I've just had to pick my jaw up from the floor while reading your detailed post above. I wouldn't blame you if you regretted becoming a verified insider here, as it has no doubt caused you a good deal of discomfort. I can also say that IMO it's also been a little awkward posting about some things regarding Dylan's case, when someone so closely connected to MR has been present. You have been very patient with us.
I've appreciated your posts and understand that there have been some topics you would have been dreading being asked about, and I've been aware also of those subjects you have clearly made taboo.
I know that a couple of times I have asked you whether there had been any history of domestic violence/abuse, and I really thought you had said that there hadn't been. That said, I realise this is not the sort of thing most people would be comfortable broadcasting in a forum like this. I am really surprised that the only report (which has been uncovered) of this behaviour was the one involving the cringeworthy sex on the lawn/drunken swing at CR. I really thought that could have been a one off incident that had its roots in extreme drunkenness - hence my shock at your references to beatings.
If I have used the word victim in relation to MR, it has been in reference to his position as the parent of a missing child - just like ER. I don't believe for a minute that any poster here has implied that Dylan himself is to blame. I do believe words are being twisted in this respect, when some people are just pointing out that Dylan was most likely acting like a normal young, slightly unpredictable teen.

BBM

Reading back over some of the postings from last night, a few came really close to doing just that, IMO. Now, I know they've been reviewed and all, and are within TOS, but I think they can be read in two different ways. Again, just my opinion.

Thank you.

 

[deoneta]

Maybe it got left behind the last time it was used and he didn't notice or maybe he left it in back of his truck and someone took it. MOO.

Maybe he was as careless of his fishing rod as you describe, but vigilant of it's whereabouts when he was not yet concerned about Dylan's whereabouts. This was before "it hit him". All MOO

 

[TxJan1971]

From the MB interview:
MR:
And, you know, I get up to go run my errands ‘cos I had a payroll issue that needed to be dealt with first thing Monday morning because that’s when payroll goes in, and so it was important for me to get down there as early as possible. Well, I wanted to leave at 6:30 so I would be there at 7:30 when they open the doors.


Since MR only left home at 7:30 - depending on how long it took to get to Durango and then go take care of his payroll issue, it appears he went to his attorney after taking care of the payroll issue. I'm looking to confirm whether he ever said he actually had an "appointment" or if he just dropped by. If anyone else has this info., please provide a link. TIA

 

[NC Analyzer]

I agree that filicide is a horrible horrible problem in our country that seems to be growing but I am not highlighting stats here to discuss that.

Those stats are for cases that start with a missing persons report filed with LE. These stats do address parental abduction/custody murders if they started with a missing persons report.

These stats do not address all filicide cases. they focus on a very specific subset as reported by LE across the country. These all start the way LE sees Dylan's case - a missing child with a possibility of abduction. Read the criteria for the cases presented and you will see that Dylan's case fits into this study.

<modsnip> I do think it would be a very good idea if we could bring more awareness to this issue. Father's murder their children.
A new study of child murders: circa 2012...

Study by Dr Debbie Kirkwood, shows men and women are equally capable of killing children, but their motives for killing are very different. Men are more likely to kill their children in order to take revenge on ex-partners and to make them suffer. Women are more likely to kill because they intend to take their own lives and cannot imagine leaving their children without a mother.
But even more than violence, research shows that a history of obsessive controlling behaviour - a sense of entitlement - can be a pointer to a man's inability to accept the separation. Enduring anger towards his ex-wife....

more: http://denomshischaostheory.blogspot.com/2012/03/new-study-fathers-do-kill-their-kids.html

And for anyone who cares to do the research, just Google "Fathers who kill their children". A real eye opener.

And just a few <modsnip>stats<modsnip> for those who would like to read up on Family Violence in general. It's called MURDER IN FAMILIES:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/mf.pdf

JMO, but I believe it serves to represent a better perspective when it comes to Dylan. This isn't just about a "missing child", this is potentially a "murdered child" who was last seen by his father and was in his father's care at the time of his mysterious disappearance.

 

[Ronald99]

BBM
Do we know what time Mark's appointment with his lawyer was? Maybe that's why he finally left at 7:30 so he could make that meeting.

No I don't, I just remember in the uncut interview he claimed he wanted to be at the company office early to resolve a payroll issue. The earlier the better is the way he may have stated it, I'm correct on his intentions, the wording may be incorrect.

 

[ColdHands]

Not to change the subject, but I, like most of us here, have been going nuts trying to figure out what could've happened to this kid.

For those who think MR is involved, do you allow for a theory in which Dylan made it to the house that night? Is it possible that they really did go home and watch a movie, but Dylan actually DID get up on time that morning, ate a bowl of cereal, and left the house with his father?

I think the Father Did It theories could definitely use some discussion of when did the murder or abduction occur. Monday morning he could have left with Dylan, handed him off to someone or murdered him on the way to the payroll office. Or Dylan could have been at home all day and MR murdered him or handed him over in the afternoon. There really has not been much validation of MR's story, so yes, I think Monday is a possible timeframe.

 

[Ghostwheel]

#878 the post that you were responding to was when ER would say that DR would call and let her know where he landed for the night. I don't know how to bring that one over so we all can see.
BBM
IMO - the context of the question & answer was in regards to when DR was in Bayfield, not day to day activities. IMO that when DR went to Bayfield, since ER was in Colo Spgs, he would contact her and let her know where he was, if he was staying the night with someone.

IMO it doesn't mean that no one was concerned if he didn't come home at night. IMO it means that if DR was out of town, in MR's custody, ER would be made aware by DR if he was going to be at a friends house for the night. IMO, ER would get very concerned if her 13 yo son did not return home when expected while he was in her custody.

I thought that, too, but I could not be sure. I was thinking it was a reference to the first night (when he landed, as in from the plane) as if did he end up with his dad for the night or with his friends.

 

[SuperMom1995]

That's the thing about stranger abductions ... they are opportunistic ... a coincidence where a child is unattended and a predator is nearby.

and extremely rare. 6 children a year are murdered by strangers. 2 children a WEEK are murdered by people known to them. Mothers are responsible about 47% of the time and fathers about 53%.

Mumsnet.com

 

[SCHMAE]

<modsnip>

'''Those stats are for cases that start with a missing persons report filed with LE. These stats do address parental abduction/custody murders if they started with a missing persons report.

These stats do not address all filicide cases. they focus on a very specific subset as reported by LE across the country. These all start the way LE sees Dylan's case - a missing child with a possibility of abduction. Read the criteria for the cases presented and you will see that Dylan's case fits into this study.'''''

This was a list that is as close to the case of Dylan's as we've got. It' s not about discounting other parental killings. It's just ones that start the way Dylan's started, which May or May not end the way Dylan's case ends. Just a guideline ! Mooooooooooo

 

[The Cheese]

1 out of every 33 homicides is a parent killing their own child. It is more likely that your spouse is going to kill your child than for a stranger to kill your child. Studies show ranges between 40% and 50% where the fathers did it.

Could you refer me to those studies please? Those percentages are far different from the ones I found for paternal filicide in the U.S.

250 - 300 per year by mothers, fathers, and other family members combined

50% (125 to 150) by mothers

50% (125 to 150) by fathers and all other family members combined

That's the 2003 FBI Uniform Crime Reports study widely cited by Resnick and others who study filicide.

Thanks!

 

[deoneta]

Yes I know. Do you know what time the lawyers appointment was for?

If that info has been released, I haven't seen it. From the uncut interview:

Melissa Blasius:
So did you do payroll… a work payroll thing… so you went down to the office and then anything else you did in Durango that morning?

Mark Redwine:
I spoke with my divorce attorney ‘cos we were in the process of filing some papers with the courts …in regards to you know the divorce side of stuff.

MB questions imply a chronological order which MR doesn't dispute so I assume he went to his office first. In my experience, lawyers' offices open later than construction related businesses, but I suppose there are always exceptions to everything. All MOO

 

[ShyViolet]

It also sounds like a fairly independent child whose parents trusted that he would make good decisions ... so they didn't need him to check in regularly or when he didn't come home at night.

The quote you keep posting does not support that as fact, so do you have another link for that?

 

[asyousay]

If that info has been released, I haven't seen it. From the uncut interview:

Melissa Blasius:
So did you do payroll… a work payroll thing… so you went down to the office and then anything else you did in Durango that morning?

Mark Redwine:
I spoke with my divorce attorney ‘cos we were in the process of filing some papers with the courts …in regards to you know the divorce side of stuff.

MB questions imply a chronological order which MR doesn't dispute so I assume he went to his office first. In my experience, lawyers' offices open later than construction related businesses, but I suppose there are always exceptions to everything. All MOO

I am still baffled by this as have they not been divorced for years ?

 

[azgrandma]

Why was Dylan getting up at 6 AM anyway? I know it was to see his friend, but who gets up that early when they don't have to; like for school, work, or an early flight? Also, if one of my friends ever told me they would be at my house around 6 AM...I would say, "Is this some kind of sick joke?"

And he slept in later than he was planning on getting up...right....so it doesn't really seem that he *liked* getting up that early.

(BTW, I don't mean this in a ~suspicious way. Just saying that Dylan seems like quite the early bird).

IMO - DR made the arrangements for 630 am after MR said he could not go over there to see R on Sunday evening. The early time may have been determined by DR knowing that MR wanted to be at the payroll dept by the time they opened up (IIRC MR said in the uncut interview that it was 7 am)

 

[NC Analyzer]

Why Parents Kill

The first psychiatric classification system describing the parental murder of children was not published until 1927. In 1969, Dr. Resnick introduced his influential categorization system to explain causation:

"Altruism" -- In murder cases involving altruism, the parent assumes that death is in &#8220;the best interest of the child&#8221; because &#8220;the world is too cruel.&#8221; The parent may be planning to commit suicide and the child cannot be left behind alone. This descriptor also applies to relieving &#8220;the suffering of a child&#8230;either real or imagined, that the parent finds intolerable.&#8221;
"Acute Psychosis" -- This term describes a parent who, &#8220;&#8230;kills the child with no other rational motive&#8221; than the mental illness the murderer is suffering.
"Unwanted Child" -- This refers to perceiving a child &#8220;as a hindrance. This category also includes parents who benefit from the death of their child in some way.&#8221;
"Accidental" -- This covers situations in which &#8220;the parent unintentionally kills the child as a result of abuse.&#8221;
"Spouse Revenge" -- This occurs when the crime is a means of &#8220;exacting revenge upon the spouse, perhaps secondary to infidelity or abandonment.&#8221;


Read more at Suite101: Experts: Fathers More Likely to Kill Their Own Children | Suite101 http://suite101.com/article/mommy--daddy-killers-a407136#ixzz2LN5ObbJx
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[TxJan1971]

Here's an interesting bulletin discussing Children Abducted by Family Members: National Estimates and Characteristics

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196466.pdf