CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #40

[Allusonz]

What on earth....??? Why do you have the idea that "joggers" ran away from "searchers"? Where is that coming from? Who ran away? I didn't see anything, anywhere about anyone running away from any searchers. Just reported "sightings" that could "possibly" be Dylan...which is very common in missing person cases.

I jog. I bike ride.

I can tell you the number of kids I see "jogging". If Dylan was a bit older, or if he was training for some type of sport, then I could understand how a sighting was said to be a jogger.

One may not like my point of view, but it is an alternative view.

It was a disconnect to this. This entire case has been a mass of many disconnects for me.

 

[cluciano63]

The mail lady reported she saw 2 boys walking. The mail lady was not a "searcher".
There was also a report that someone spotted another boy that was later described as looking similar to Dylan. Not reported by a "searcher".
I never saw any reports that anyone "ran away". Got a link?

All sightings have been checked and ruled out per LE.

There was something about a jogger in the very early days and what I got from it, is that the person kept...jogging. Not really sure that is so mysterious, but whatever. No word about whether jogger had a full backpack on...or carried a fishing pole.

 

[ColdHands]

BBM this has been bothering me too.:furious: I read a quote earlier in this thread, from LE re: earlier dog searches and hits that the dogs were "wrong". That just seems like such an unprofessional thing to say in public. It's starting to make me look askance a bit at how LE appears to be conducting the investigation.

btw, My POV on this is having been involved for several years with extended family that trained and searched with their SAR dogs. ALL SAR folks I have ever met take their avocations very seriously and would be horrified to hear LE say something like that in public.

I think it is amazing and wonderful that there are people out there who care enough to train their dogs and perform this function, just to help the families of people that go missing. Kudos to them for coming out and for sticking it out through that bitter cold, with the snow and water and all. Great bunch of people!

I'd love to have Bender go sit quietly for a bit and have the sheriff share a few words with his community directly. After all, he either has a known killer living in his county, or an unknown predator on the loose somewhere, maybe in the county maybe moved on. This is a pretty big case for his team, I'd imagine. The reports I've read say he's actually a pretty good sheriff. But things get lost in interpretation - first going through Bender (who is probably a pretty good guy too) and then through the media. IMO.

 

[Seek&Find]

I would too. Ransom was there and specifically tested this idea because of our discussion here early on.

I wouldn't. For reasons [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8959686&postcount=918"]previously stated[/ame], and others. Anyone that viewed the official FB page during the rally held outside Mark's house saw cell photos sent real time from that location and posted, and iirc, there were conversations between the admins and those on sight, who intentionally checked their service there. Additionally, whether Ransom or Mark's exgirlfriend got service there is moot. Could be their carrier, phone, truthfulness, etc. Blasius did; we all saw that via video. What's important is whether Dylan did. Mark said Dylan did, in word and deed, and Elaine said Dylan did.

Moo

 

[Allusonz]

I wouldn't. For reasons previously stated, and others. Anyone that viewed the official FB page during the rally held outside Mark's house saw cell photos sent real time from that location and posted, and iirc, there were conversations between the admins and those on sight, who intentionally checked their service there. Additionally, whether Ransom or Mark's exgirlfriend got service there is moot. Could be their carrier, phone, truthfulness, etc. Blasius did; we all saw that via video. What's important is whether Dylan did. Mark said Dylan did, in word and deed, and Elaine said Dylan did.

Moo

Amazing is it not?

I mean there is a news crew there, that is broadcasting from the location, so I would gather they had a satellite on the van (pretty sure I saw one), <modsnip>.

Just things that make me go hhhhmmmm.

 

[Allusonz]

There was something about a jogger in the very early days and what I got from it, is that the person kept...jogging. Not really sure that is so mysterious, but whatever. No word about whether jogger had a full backpack on...or carried a fishing pole.

Yet was a kid that looked enough like Dylan for LE to put out a mistaken identity statement for one of the sightings.

Another disconnect for me.

 

[Ghostwheel]

All I was giving was alternatives.

I as well know what I was told and the mountains of red tape before I could spread ashes in a body of water.

I did not state this was the case in here. I simply put out some alternatives. It does not mean anyone has to agree, even like what I have to say. I was answering a question posed by another poster on why LE would dismiss hits.

The handlers and k9's must keep logs. Their reputation rests on the ability of the handlers and the dogs. I don't believe any of the SAR were not telling the truth.

So we go back to the original question of why LE dismissed those hits.

BBM: Just a thought, since it was a reporter who said this, not an actual quote from an LE officer (if there is an actual quote, please link me), maybe the reporter got it wrong, and LE figures they will just not say anything so that if there is a perp, that perp will not disappear if the perp thinks they are safe. Convoluted, but this has happened before, where LE does not correct something because it is in their best interest not to.

 

[NC Analyzer]

I agree. The poly isn't the "end game" as many would have us believe. It's simply a tool....and when I got to thinking, I started considering some LE tactics, and I'm just throwing this out there to see what others think:

There is a task force, and IMO, it would consist of someone from the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit...at the very least, if not directly assigned to the task force, there would be someone available to consult on this case.

MR behavior is not "unusual" in terms of what the profilers from the BAU see routinely. The question is, how do they "handle" this personality type? We may actually be seeing some of their strategy playing out:

The mysterious fishing pole....one is coincidentally found and discounted.

The dog hits....mysteriously discounted. (Brush?? comon)

The "Last Electronic Communication (texting)"....confusing in itself, in light of when that information was released and the "fuzzy" nature of the wording.

LE's own "nonchalance" regarding the case. (mimicking the possible POI's behavior?)

Their "tolerance" and "no comment" attitude about the rising pressure on MR from the community...as if to condone those acts, (which usually isn't done).

I think this list could be much longer...Anyone?


One of the best ways to deal with someone like MR is to do exactly what they do...Divert, Distract, Deflect. Keep them off balance. If they attempt to "lead" the investigation with "clues"...discount those clues. When they attempt to confuse issues, confuse them. So on and so on....

I see strategy at work here....
(I hope)

All I was giving was alternatives.

I as well know what I was told and the mountains of red tape before I could spread ashes in a body of water.

I did not state this was the case in here. I simply put out some alternatives. It does not mean anyone has to agree, even like what I have to say. I was answering a question posed by another poster on why LE would dismiss hits.

The handlers and k9's must keep logs. Their reputation rests on the ability of the handlers and the dogs. I don't believe any of the SAR were not telling the truth.

So we go back to the original question of why LE dismissed those hits.

Jumping off my own post here in an effort to answer your post and point out that sometimes WE don't know what LE/FBI/CBI or the task force in general is attempting to accomplish.

Sex Offenders CAN be cleared very quickly. Easily done and done routinely.

If LE appears to be dismissing anything, they may have a very good reason. At least, I'm counting on a very good reason because I've never seen LE behave in a manner that would indicate they are deliberately attempting to hinder their own investigation.

Whether or not their technique works remains to be seen...but I for one, will not discredit LE without knowing the facts as they see them.

I believe all of this strange behavior by LE is an effort by the BAU to deal with the unnamed POI's behavior pattern and throw him off balance.

 

[jjenny]

How many 13 year old joggers do you know?

Not only a jogger, but one that ran away from 2 different searchers in 2 separate incidents.

I will admit that CR looks like his brother, but DR is very young looking.

Why would a jogger run away from searchers?

It kinda reminds me of the fishing pole whose owner they found.

Joggers run. The person was running as opposed to running away. And I haven't seen anyone claim that this jogger was 13 years old or even resembled Dylan.

 

[Allusonz]

Jumping off my own post here in an effort to answer your post and point out that sometimes WE don't know what LE/FBI/CBI or the task force in general is attempting to accomplish.

Sex Offenders CAN be cleared very quickly. Easily done and done routinely.

If LE appears to be dismissing anything, they may have a very good reason. At least, I'm counting on a very good reason because I've never seen LE behave in a manner that would indicate they are deliberately attempting to hinder their own investigation.

Whether or not their technique works remains to be seen...but I for one, will not discredit LE without knowing the facts as they see them.

I believe all of this strange behavior by LE is an effort by the BAU to deal with the unnamed POI's behavior pattern and throw him off balance.

I am quite certain LE has reasons. I do understand that different people are verified in different areas.

That does not mean that others that post here could not be verified if they so chose. This is a task force. It is not just one agency.

It as well does not make any one theory right or wrong till LE tells us different.

 

[cluciano63]

LE has not exactly been filling our ears with details. My best guess is that they spoke with the various individuals who were mistaken for Dylan, thus ruling them out. LE has no reason to muddy the waters about when he was last seen more than they already are. It is a small town, would not be that difficult.

As far as overall LE in this case, I am hoping FBI involvement means more than one local guy down from Denver or up from ABQ. I hope they are taking advantage of all FBI resources. If not, I take back a lot of assumptions I have made as to what has been done.

 

[Allusonz]

Ok back to work for this lady. Hope there is news when I next get to check.

This case may mean I must visit my asylum in the caribbean SOON :giggle:

 

[Deleted member 39678]

BBM: Just a thought, since it was a reporter who said this, not an actual quote from an LE officer (if there is an actual quote, please link me), maybe the reporter got it wrong, and LE figures they will just not say anything so that if there is a perp, that perp will not disappear if the perp thinks they are safe. Convoluted, but this has happened before, where LE does not correct something because it is in their best interest not to.

This is a direct quote of Dan Bender.

It wasn't clear whether the smell they detected Saturday and again Sunday morning at the south end of the lake had anything to do with the youngster, said La Plata Sheriff's Office spokesman Dan Bender.

"We had two of the dogs alerted on the surface of the lake. It could be a submerged deer or elk or something else," Bender said.

Why did he say that the HRD dogs could have alerted to a dead deer or elk? He is definitely trying to dismiss the dog alerts for some unknown reason. MOO.

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_22063185

 

[Ghostwheel]

Yet was a kid that looked enough like Dylan for LE to put out a mistaken identity statement for one of the sightings.

Another disconnect for me.

I would really like to know because perhaps I use the word "disconnect" differently than you do. How is a mistaken identity statement a disconnect? Or someone with a hoodie that looked like it might be a kid that looked like Dylan being a mistaken identity a disconnect? (Disconnect as in not connected or separate)

TIA

 

[Ghostwheel]

This is a direct quote of Dan Bender.


Why did he say that the HRD dogs could have alerted to a dead deer or elk? He is definitely trying to dismiss the dog alerts for some unknown reason. MOO.

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_22063185

A) That isn't brush, which different from decaying flesh (apologies) B)See my quote in your post. IMO, it's a deflection, not a dismissal. Your mileage may vary.

 

[NC Analyzer]

I am quite certain LE has reasons. I do understand that different people are verified in different areas.

That does not mean that others that post here could not be verified if they so chose. This is a task force. It is not just one agency.

It as well does not make any one theory right or wrong till LE tells us different.

Which is pretty much what I said in the first place, but offered specific reasons for my thinking when I stated this all has something to do with strategy and behavioral analysis.

MR has issues. We've all seen it. LE knows. And they have subtlety indicated as much when they reported they were meeting to strategize. MR is difficult to deal with. He does not provide answers in what most of us would consider a "typical manner". This fact would require a somewhat different or alternative approach to the situation.

That is my belief at this moment in time. Of course you are entitled to theorize as much as you want. The only reason I was inquiring about your theories is to get an understanding for the reasoning behind such thinking. There is always a reason. It helps to know where others are actually coming from so it can add information to whether or not to give that particular theory any credence. (not you specifically, just in general).

 

[The Cheese]

The mail lady reported she saw 2 boys walking. The mail lady was not a "searcher".
There was also a report that someone spotted another boy that was later described as looking similar to Dylan. Not reported by a "searcher".
I never saw any reports that anyone "ran away". Got a link?

Here are 2 of the news articles about the searcher sightings and how the sighted boy ran away from the rescue workers. -

A postal worker possibly saw the boy Monday on County Road 501, near Vallecito, and two rescue workers may have seen the boy Tuesday afternoon, said Dan Bender, spokesman with the La Plata County Sheriff&#8217;s Office.

Both sightings are unconfirmed, and, in both cases, the boy ran from rescue workers up a hill in the Vallecito area, Bender said.

&#8220;We&#8217;re assuming at this point &#8211; it may be Dylan &#8211; eluded searchers,&#8221; he said. &#8220;We&#8217;re leaning toward his being a runaway.&#8221;

- See more at: http://www.durangoherald.com/articl...-for-teen-near-Vallecito#sthash.NiGJNkCv.dpuf

2 p.m.: A postal worker may have seen Dylan walking on County Road 501 near Vallecito with another boy. Both reportedly were wearing hooded sweatshirts and had black backpacks.

Afternoon: Mark Redwine checks with Dylan&#8217;s friends when he does not find Dylan at his home and notifies Elaine Redwine that the teen is missing.

6 p.m.: Mark Redwine calls police to report Dylan missing. Shortly after, La Plata County Search and Rescue begins searching for Dylan in areas near County Road 500, where his father lives, north of Vallecito Reservoir.

Day 3: Tuesday, Nov. 20
Afternoon: Two rescue workers think they may have seen Dylan on two separate occasions but say he fled into the forest. One of the sightings turned out to be a jogger; the other sighting may have been the same jogger or Dylan.

- See more at: http://durangoherald.com/article/20...ts-in-Dylan-Redwine-case#sthash.Nw64vxCx.dpuf

 

[Seek&Find]

This is a direct quote of Dan Bender.


Why did he say that the HRD dogs could have alerted to a dead deer or elk? He is definitely trying to dismiss the dog alerts for some unknown reason. MOO.

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_22063185

IMO, it's an extrapolation to say his erroneous statement re: the alerts from Nov=trying to dismiss. We've had examples before in cases where spokespersons simply didn't have all the info the investigators do. Iirc, we saw that in Hailey Dunn's case, for example. I'm doubting Bender's trained in SAR.

Moo

 

[azgrandma]

MR has said that LE has not asked him to take another poly.

Now if you fail or have an inconclusive i think they tell you you can and probably should take another. and if i was totally innocent and had an inconclusive id take another one to clear myself.

I have a feeling LE has caught MR in some of his lies and thus trust the poly and know he wont pass another one

jmo

This reminded me of a show I saw on investigation ID, a young teenage girl was killed in her mother's apt, shortly after she moved in w/mom from dad's house.
They asked the father to take a LDT and he failed, HE asked if he could retake it, there were a few questions he had a hard time with and discussed it with them, when the questions were asked in a different way - he passed. The killer ended up being a teenager in the building.

Point is, I think that there are several opportunities to "pass" a test. I remember taking one and the guy said that women tend to show reactions on a particular question he asked, it wasn't because the women were lying - it was because the question was highly offensive.

Example: Did your wife say anything to you the last time you beat her vs. do you abuse your wife.

ETA - the above is an example, OH it sounded bad!

 

[pattywack]

BBM


I don't in a million years believe they have cleared all those sex offenders. They may have alibis, but it takes time to "check" those alibis, as the Mickey Shunick case showed.

I'm not sure how many sex offenders we are talking here but how many of them would target a young boy? Just because they are a RSO doesn't mean every child is at risk. They each have their own preferences. My BIL had to register as a SO because he had sex with his wife when she was passed out and she charged him. He wouldn't have touched young boys. Is there any way of finding out what the RSO's in the close vicinity were charged with?