CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 8

[bexlex]

The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 49s50 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Pain disorder - JH doesn’t remember what kind of pain
--
The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 39s40 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Restless leg - twitchy legs when trying to fall asleep
--
The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 59s59 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Reid: Looking back - are those realistic, overkill?

JH - Just thoughts i had. Research i did online

Isn't that one of the things the defense said in opening?

 

[I'mjazzed]

Thank you for the Tweets today! = )
:tyou:

 

[carson456]

Agree. Not sure about coaching cause I don't know this guy could be coached in anything. Wow. Quite the specimen.

I agree with others and give Dr Reid kudos. He's on top of his game.

I'm still stuck on this 'point system' Holmes had. Does anyone know what video games this guy played? I recall him saying he played for 8 hrs a day. Some of these games, in particular, shooting videos are on a point system. I'm thinking in his mind, he may have committed this mass murder (partly) as some sort of fantasy.

That is a good point about the video games. As someone who has never really played video games, I hadn't thought about it that way. But it does make sense, how there is a similar type of point system. Good thing to relate it to.

 

[bexlex]

Sure, that does also seem like a defense mechanism he uses consistently and did prior to his arrest...but I'm still not sure how much he actually cares about what happens to him at this point. He is certainly not providing extra information or details to try to persuade the doctor to believe anything one way or the other.

I guess I can see how the family therapist in 10th grade didn't make any progress. You know his Mom hates it when he says "Nope"..... he would have been a tough kid to "guide"

 

[LyndyLoo]

Isn't that one of the things the defense said in opening?

The twitching leg was no doubt a side affect of his meds..and he KNEW THAT..as he already said in the tape before this surround his meds..THAT he was having side affects.

Now he's using that to suggest symptoms of illness tho it's unrelated to his illness..but was due to treatment//ala meds..That hasn't been clarified yet..But I connected that dot..

 

[bexlex]

Well, even if he does have schizophrenia, that doesn't mean he was insane and should be found not guity. To me, he doesn't seem to be saying much of anything that would help the defense's case. No higher power directing him to commit these crimes, nothing like that.

How would you deal with someone like this in a clinical setting? I'm assuming that he'll gradually move up into up-close-and-personal type killer. He was squeamish this time but who's to say he wouldn't evolve? IMO....he doesn't feel like the one set of killings finished the job

 

[zoey]

Have to say - hearing him say he has a really small penis really cracked me up.

Me as well--

 

[Maisiebelle]

According to this article these are the video games found in JH's apartment.....

Skyrim:

Skyrim's main story revolves around the player character's efforts to defeat Alduin the World-Eater, a dragon who is prophesied to destroy the world.

The player may freely roam over the land of Skyrim, which is an open world environment consisting of wilderness expanses, dungeons, cities, towns, and villages.

Players may navigate the game world more quickly by riding horses, or by utilizing a fast-travel system which allows them to warp to previously discovered locations.[4] The game's main quest can be completed or ignored at the player's preference after the first stage of the quest is finished. However, some quests rely on the main storyline being at least partially completed. Non-player characters (NPCs) populate the world and can be interacted with in a number of ways; the player may engage them in conversation, marry an eligible NPC, or kill them. As in previous Elder Scrolls games, killing certain NPCs can make some quests or items unobtainable. Some NPCs cannot be killed. If witnessed, crimes like murder and theft accrue the player bounty points in each of the world's nine districts. Should the player be stopped by a guard, they may wipe their bounty with gold or jail time, or may resist arrest which will trigger an aggressive pursuit.

Oblivion:

Oblivion '​s main story revolves around the player character's efforts to thwart a fanatical cult known as the "Mythic Dawn" that plans to open the gates to a realm called "Oblivion".
The player can follow side-quests, interact with NPCs, dispatch monsters, develop their character, and travel anywhere in the province of Cyrodiil at any time while playing the game.

Combat skills are used primarily for battle and incorporate armor and heavy weapons like blades, axes, maces, and hammers.
Magic skills rely on the use of spells to alter the physical world, to affect the minds of others, to injure and debilitate enemies, to summon monsters to help fight, and to heal wounds. Stealth skills allow the player to crack locks, haggle for goods, use speech to manipulate people, and apply cunning in combat (through the use of a bow or with a sneak attack).


Starcraft:


StarCraft is a military science fiction media franchise created by Chris Metzen and James Phinney, and owned by Blizzard Entertainment. The series centers on a galactic struggle for dominance between three species—the adaptable and mobile Terrans, the insectoid Zerg, and the enigmatic Protoss—in a distant part of the Milky Way galaxy known as the Koprulu Sector at the beginning of the 26th century.


The story focuses on the activities of the three species in a part of the Milky Way known as the Koprulu Sector. Millennia before any of the events of the games, a species known as the Xel'Naga genetically engineered the Protoss and later the Zerg in attempts to create pure beings. These experiments backfire and the Xel'Naga are largely destroyed by the Zerg.

All the games in the main series are real-time strategy games,[10][11][12] where the player views the events as a military commander for each of the three species.

(Info taken from Wikipedia)

Article found here: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/evidence-found-james-holmes-apartment-says-him-192824689.html

 

[jilly]

That is a good point about the video games. As someone who has never really played video games, I hadn't thought about it that way. But it does make sense, how there is a similar type of point system. Good thing to relate it to.

I know he admitted to playing 'Mario' games which iirc has points but I was wondering if he played the violent games which many of these recent mass murderers do.

 

[LyndyLoo]

Agree. Not sure about coaching cause I don't know this guy could be coached in anything. Wow. Quite the specimen.

I agree with others and give Dr Reid kudos. He's on top of his game.

I'm still stuck on this 'point system' Holmes had. Does anyone know what video games this guy played? I recall him saying he played for 8 hrs a day. Some of these games, in particular, shooting videos are on a point system. I'm thinking in his mind, he may have committed this mass murder (partly) as some sort of fantasy.

See Maisie's post below..kind of explains things, huh? Gaining points is the goal in all of those games and he was a gamer! Yikes he talked about playing about 8 hours a day!!

Once he formulated his goal/agenda, he incorporated this scheme into it..He somehow feels no connection with humanity..and being that way..he will never be able to equate human's he lives amongst as anything other than a possible point that could be added to his side of the equation...We have already seen in his notebook how he creates equations..It's always..Goal oriented ...so X + Y = Z

He's not safe to be around forever more..Lock him up..But DP doesn't have to be the outcome..BUT NG by reason of insanity means he COULD!! Would anyone ever want to take that chance?

According to this article these are the video games found in JH's apartment.....

Skyrim:

Skyrim's main story revolves around the player character's efforts to defeat Alduin the World-Eater, a dragon who is prophesied to destroy the world.

The player may freely roam over the land of Skyrim, which is an open world environment consisting of wilderness expanses, dungeons, cities, towns, and villages.

Players may navigate the game world more quickly by riding horses, or by utilizing a fast-travel system which allows them to warp to previously discovered locations.[4] The game's main quest can be completed or ignored at the player's preference after the first stage of the quest is finished. However, some quests rely on the main storyline being at least partially completed. Non-player characters (NPCs) populate the world and can be interacted with in a number of ways; the player may engage them in conversation, marry an eligible NPC, or kill them. As in previous Elder Scrolls games, killing certain NPCs can make some quests or items unobtainable. Some NPCs cannot be killed. If witnessed, crimes like murder and theft accrue the player bounty points in each of the world's nine districts. Should the player be stopped by a guard, they may wipe their bounty with gold or jail time, or may resist arrest which will trigger an aggressive pursuit.

Oblivion:

Oblivion '​s main story revolves around the player character's efforts to thwart a fanatical cult known as the "Mythic Dawn" that plans to open the gates to a realm called "Oblivion".
The player can follow side-quests, interact with NPCs, dispatch monsters, develop their character, and travel anywhere in the province of Cyrodiil at any time while playing the game.

Combat skills are used primarily for battle and incorporate armor and heavy weapons like blades, axes, maces, and hammers.
Magic skills rely on the use of spells to alter the physical world, to affect the minds of others, to injure and debilitate enemies, to summon monsters to help fight, and to heal wounds. Stealth skills allow the player to crack locks, haggle for goods, use speech to manipulate people, and apply cunning in combat (through the use of a bow or with a sneak attack).


Starcraft:


StarCraft is a military science fiction media franchise created by Chris Metzen and James Phinney, and owned by Blizzard Entertainment. The series centers on a galactic struggle for dominance between three species—the adaptable and mobile Terrans, the insectoid Zerg, and the enigmatic Protoss—in a distant part of the Milky Way galaxy known as the Koprulu Sector at the beginning of the 26th century.


The story focuses on the activities of the three species in a part of the Milky Way known as the Koprulu Sector. Millennia before any of the events of the games, a species known as the Xel'Naga genetically engineered the Protoss and later the Zerg in attempts to create pure beings. These experiments backfire and the Xel'Naga are largely destroyed by the Zerg.

All the games in the main series are real-time strategy games,[10][11][12] where the player views the events as a military commander for each of the three species.

(Info taken from Wikipedia)

Article found here: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/evidence-found-james-holmes-apartment-says-him-192824689.html

 

[jilly]

THANKS for the links Maisiebelle!! wow. I remember he played Mario with friend. I wonder if his friends will be testifying.

 

[shiloh42]

Hi all. I haven't been here since the first Jodi trial. I've been listening to Holmes pretty much from day one, much as I can. I miss bits here and there. I'm really liking what this psychiatrist is getting out of him. I'm trying really hard to keep an open mind, but so far everything I've heard is that he was aware that what he was going to do was illegal, but didn't care. Today when he said he was afraid of being stopped in his plans by the FBI - right there, that shows he knew it was illegal to me. He also said he hoped someone else would stop him but he wasn't going to stop himself because 'he had a purpose to fill'. Shows deliberation imho. He is ill, that's for sure, just not by the legal standard.

Did anyone catch what the symbol was based on ? It sounded to me like he said "Ultraception" which I googled and didn't get very far with.

 

[jilly]

See Maisie's post below..kind of explains things, huh? Gaining points is the goal in all of those games and he was a gamer! Yikes he talked about playing about 8 hours a day!!

Once he formulated his goal/agenda, he incorporated this scheme into it..He somehow feels no connection with humanity..and being that way..he will never be able to equate human's he lives amongst as anything other than a possible point that could be added to his side of the equation...We have already seen in his notebook how he creates equations..It's always..Goal oriented ...so X + Y = Z

He's not safe to be around forever more..Lock him up..But DP doesn't have to be the outcome..BUT NG by reason of insanity means he COULD!! Would anyone ever want to take that chance?

Yeah.....on the face of it, would seem to be 'part' of the problem.

 

[zoey]

THANKS for the links Maisiebelle!! wow. I remember he played Mario with friend. I wonder if his friends will be testifying.

Well ya know according to him they still have warm feeling for him....

 

[carson456]

How would you deal with someone like this in a clinical setting? I'm assuming that he'll gradually move up into up-close-and-personal type killer. He was squeamish this time but whose to say he wouldn't evolve? IMO....he doesn't feel like the one set of killings finished the job

Well, I'm a nurse, not a physician, so I probably wouldn't be the one talking toa patient about their crime to this extent. The use of therapeutic communication is really heavily emphasized, especially in psych. It is definitely something a lot of people struggle with and this doctor is amazing at it. Like he said, he likes to ask open-ended questions. He frequently says, "Tell me more about that." Then sometimes he will paraphrase what JH has said to him, in the doctor's interpretation, asking the client if that is accurate. That gives the client the opportunity to elaborate and add more details and communicate things in his own words. I am really impressed that Dr. Reid has not gotten frustrated with his consistent, "I don't know" or "There's nothing more to say" answers. He is so good at providing a variety of openings to JH m- even when most are still shot down. He's also good at providing unconditional positive regard, especially when talking about such offensive topics. I just want to shake the crap out of him and tell him to answer the dang questions - which is not so therapeutic.

Side note. One of the first times I spoke with a patient that was truly schizophrenic in a psych ward it was really a test for myself in staying in control of my facial expressions and reactions. It was hard to do that when he was telling me he was a Samurai ninja master that had only been alive for 6 days. He was also a Shaman and a news reporter and could talk to dead spirits, rocks, and trees. He was also sent messages through the radio that others couldn't hear. He gave me a few drawings with symbols and elaborate explanations that I will have to post sometime.

 

[Amster]

Did the juror figure out who talked to her about the weather?

 

[jilly]

How would you deal with someone like this in a clinical setting? I'm assuming that he'll gradually move up into up-close-and-personal type killer. He was squeamish this time but whose to say he wouldn't evolve? IMO....he doesn't feel like the one set of killings finished the job

I wonder what he'd be like if Dr Reid was a woman.

 

[LyndyLoo]

Well, I'm a nurse, not a physician, so I probably wouldn't be the one talking toa patient about their crime to this extent. The use of therapeutic communication is really heavily emphasized, especially in psych. It is definitely something a lot of people struggle with and this doctor is amazing at it. Like he said, he likes to ask open-ended questions. He frequently says, "Tell me more about that." Then sometimes he will paraphrase what JH has said to him, in the doctor's interpretation, asking the client if that is accurate. That gives the client the opportunity to elaborate and add more details and communicate things in his own words. I am really impressed that Dr. Reid has not gotten frustrated with his consistent, "I don't know" or "There's nothing more to say" answers. He is so good at providing a variety of openings to JH m- even when most are still shot down. He's also good at providing unconditional positive regard, especially when talking about such offensive topics. I just want to shake the crap out of him and tell him to answer the dang questions - which is not so therapeutic.

Side note. One of the first times I spoke with a patient that was truly schizophrenic in a psych ward it was really a test for myself in staying in control of my facial expressions and reactions. It was hard to do that when he was telling me he was a Samurai ninja master that had only been alive for 6 days. He was also a Shaman and a news reporter and could talk to dead spirits, rocks, and trees. He was also sent messages through the radio that others couldn't hear. He gave me a few drawings with symbols and elaborate explanations that I will have to post sometime.

I recognized as a Student nurse that I could NOT do this type of work on a daily basis..I got kudos from clinical advisor's that was excellent on understanding the patients because my reports reflected what they were telling me was in their minds what they knew as a truth...WHatever..I knew..that IF I worked with these unfortunate folks..I myself would be included amongst them after many years ...so chose another specialty.

One of my clinical mentor's said ( after I chose different specialty) she understood...as there was no way I could have had such insights with feeling or sensing their torment...That's the word she used...EMPATHY....I later found out..I do have a certain gift of being "Empathic",which enabled me to foresee things in a patient..which ultimately enabled interventions that caused better outcomes.. Fellow HC providers will understand what I mean by that...It kind of gave me solace..as I wanted to protect the environment/co-workers and the patient at the same time..So thankful for small mercies in that gift department :facepalm:

 

[Maisiebelle]

What's this about the juror? I missed that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LyndyLoo]

Did the juror figure out who talked to her about the weather?

Yes..someone emailed in as to what happened..and as it turned out..she didn't even recognize this juror..and was only making small talk..Don't think it will come to anything..It all had to do with complaining about the heat (weather)...