CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #45*ARREST*

[Kapua]

I think during the live tweets it was described as a lump. Either way, it’s a mass of something that melted, burned. MOO

The acoustics in the old courtroom are horrible, and the poor reporters were tweeting as fast as they could.

 

[mtnlites]

I wonder, why such an intimate info by Slater was necessary at all. I'm uncomfortable with it.

It was in response to a direct question and is pertinent to the investigation since it can offer an alternative as to why there was blood on or around the toilet.

Referencing periods in this kind of context doesn't bother me. It's a bodily function and blood is something we all have. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Without menstruation, and the cycle it represents, none of us would be here. Growing up, many of us were taught to be embarrassed by such things and not to talk about it. In some instances, that's led to even more questions and misinformation about a biological function that's completely natural and normal.

I didn't feel uncomfortable when KB's period was referenced, but something about the tampons in the garbage DID make me sad. Just another reference to the fact that, like the rest of us, she was completely human and just a normal woman trying to live her life.

 

[acutename]

She said SF opened the door and walked out on her porch to see what they were doing. Where they set the fire is long way from the porch, with trees in between. I imagine all SF saw was the outline of her son feeding a fire in a water trough. With a severe limp and a cane, I wouldn't expect her to investigate further in the dark. SF was several days away from hearing that KB was missing at that time. IMO

isn't the open burning a no no because of fire danger? I thought the implication was that she was concerned the fire was too big and they would be cited or it would spread. maybe just my read on it.

 

[mtnlites]

So are we now questioning whether KB is even dead? Can we please let this not turn into a joke? Wanting to make a point is one thing, but her family could be reading here. I can understand wanting to play devil's advocate, but there must be a line that, when crossed, becomes disrespectful.

 

[acutename]

It's good to remember that the Frazees didn't live in a subdivision with a traditional front yard.

If they're like most farmers and ranchers they probably whipped up a fire wherever they happened to gather a bunch of discards.

the ranch is 35 acres; not legal to be burning and he has to put the fire out

 

[MyBelle]

No, she said her gun was in the glove compartment with 8 rounds in the clip and none in the chamber. When she got it back there were six in the clip and one in the chamber.

The glove compartment isn't mentioned on the Arrest Affidavit. Just the vehicle. Item #56.

BREAKING: Patrick Frazee 10-Page Arrest Affidavit

he did not want it at the ranch with SF and SF2 and any other F family on Thanksgiving

yet, if KK is to be believed, PF moved the body to the ranch and burned it while his mother watched.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

The acoustics in the old courtroom are horrible, and the poor reporters were tweeting as fast as they could.

Yeah, mass Tweeting doesn’t exactly lend itself to accuracy in the first place.

Coupled with poor acoustics, you’re just asking for trouble.

I’ll still take it though.

 

[SFDukie]

Does anyone know-if KB had merely "disappeared"-would LE have cause to search PF's phone records, in the absence of other evidence? Is it enough for a judge if he were merely the last to have seen her?

 

[PommyMommy]

Still curious about that "tooth" KK was supposed to collect during her 'ridding the house of evidence'......
Was it a bullet shell casing ?
And yet she left possible evidence in the baked goods on the countertop and also in the bathroom garbage.
Was KK just being lazy, or was the knocked out 'tooth' (i.e., possible bullet s.c.) more important ?

Patrick Frazee tied sweater around Kelsey Berreth's face, beat her to death with bat, Idaho nurse told police
She found a complete tooth, including roots, on the floor. She threw that away, Slater told the court.

Dental avulsion - Wikipedia
Dental avulsion is the complete displacement of a tooth from its socket in alveolar bone owing to trauma.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Do we have a gap in KKL's strong timeline/schedule between ID - CO - ID?
IF we have, I'm assuming, a quick hairdresser visit was inserted too.

 

[MassGuy]

In many serious criminal cases, it is an accomplice’s testimony that proves vital to the prosecution.

These witnesses are proven liars and criminals themselves.

This happens all the time.

A proven liar, criminal, and all around disgusting human being, can be believed if the evidence supports it.

This isn’t merely about taking KK’s word for anything.

The jury won’t trust her at her word, nor should they. But with all the corroborating evidence that backs up her account, I’m not worried.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Authorities searching landfill for missing Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth's remains

The search could take between 16 and 80 days, according to KDVR.

 

[MyBelle]

<modsnip>

The point is that murder cases without evidence of a body are very difficult to prosecute. In some cases, the massive amounts of blood left behind--so much blood loss it would be impossible to survive--has led to successful convictions.

In this case, KK cleaned up all of the blood. It was a question from the defense about the blood when the officer admitted to the tampons.

JMO

 

[Yellow Rose]

There is no doubt she’s dead. They are trying to recover her charred remains per the article.

 

[oviedo]

The point is that murder cases without evidence of a body are very difficult to prosecute. In some cases, the massive amounts of blood left behind--so much blood loss it would be impossible to survive--has led to successful convictions.

In this case, KK cleaned up all of the blood. It was a question from the defense about the blood when the officer admitted to the tampons.

JMO

But she didn’t get all the blood according to the affidavit so there’s that IMO

 

[PrairieWind]

If one has a concealed weapon license, transporting a loaded firearm in a vehicle is legal in my state. It does not have to be in a trunk. As long as the vehicle has not been altered in anyway (to hide a gun) the loaded or unloaded firearm can be in the glove compartment. Our open carry laws also allow guns to be carried in a vehicle on the seat. Where one gets into trouble is transporting a loaded gun from one state that allows it to another state that does not. When we apply for CCWs, this is literally gone over in class by LE.

Guns in Vehicles in Kentucky | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

If you are just passing through a state with strict gun laws, as long as you keep those firearms unloaded and in your trunk , that states laws won’t apply to you. The federal law protects gun owners.

 

[ab01]

I agree with you. We do not know for a fact that PF murdered KB and there is no evidence KB is dead nor when she died or how she died. That is why they are at the landfill. They are trying to find corroborating evidence KB is dead.

I'm not about to conclude KK had no involvement in the murder.

JMO

Hmmmn I think there’s plenty of evidence that KB is dead...moo

 

[Artis]

I think it would whittle down to not much and be in the same spot various notorious no-body cases landed, like Susan Powell, Kyron Horman, Ayla Reynolds, Michelle Parker, etc. Just hoping somehow for a slip up or the discovery of a body.

The FBI and CBI simply don't start with a weak investigation and then ramp up to a "more robust" one after time goes on. They start out hard.

All the major investigative work like electronic/computer analysis, witness and POI interviews, is done early on. A lack of evidence doesn't magically translate to these incredible agencies somehow suddenly deciding to do their jobs.

The dates are pretty clear. Unless KK had a time machine, she wasn't there on the 22nd. And it's pretty clear KB was killed on that date.

Yes, anyone is free to believe whatever they feel like believing, even when what they believe isn't support by fact. But my question was how can you second guess them "when the evidence thus far appears to clearly support the charges against PF and indicates KB was not there", not "how can you second guess them?".

Your answer didn't give any facts or reasoning beyond that you can believe what you want to (true) and that no one is infallible and there "might" have been other options.

Seems thin at best.

I didn't say anything about her being in Colorado on the 22nd or question that it's rock solid that PF was there. I'm not questioning the known evidence and not discounting or making up any facts. I didn't take issue with any timelines or phone records. I'm talking about her degree of involvement in being an accessory after the fact. Perhaps further investigation might have uncovered that information without relying on a plea deal to get it. That's all.

 

[MyBelle]

<modsnip>
The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. And the prosecution's key witness is a proved liar.

JMO

 

[nwmouse]

I agree with you. We do not know for a fact that PF murdered KB and there is no evidence KB is dead nor when she died or how she died. That is why they are at the landfill. They are trying to find corroborating evidence KB is dead.

I'm not about to conclude KK had no involvement in the murder.

JMO

Respectfully, we DO KNOW that KB is dead and she was murdered.
They are NOT trying to find corroborating evidence that KB is dead, there is more than enough evidence including KK's testimony, blood spatter/ <modsnip: no MSM to support> which will be proved by mitochondrial DNA from KB's mom.

They are trying to find her remains because putting PF away for LWOP will be harder without remains.

Respectfully, please show some concern and respect for CBI/LE and for KB's family and loved ones. I'm inclined to trust that LE/CBI are experienced enough in these matters, and have enough evidence that KB is dead due to forensics. IF she isn't dead then who does the blood and brain spatter belong to that was found in KB's condo? WHERE is KB? I sincerely would like to understand why you think KB might not be dead?


MOO