Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[susiQ]

Oh, yeah. I forgot about them.
Seems like a distant memory now.

Yes, a very nauseating memory. Took everything I had not to throw up

 

[ilovechili]

Once you start following cases regularly, you will realize that the evidence doesn’t answer every question one may have.

That has nothing to do with the strength of the case.

BBM: What?? How do you know what I do?? Are some the self-appointed tutor of all and assume all others who do not, like some type of dullard close into a narrow box before trial, have no knowledge or brain cells? Seems a bit condescending and rude.

Unless you are Dan May or they are leaking info then you have no idea of what either side has to my knowledge in regards to the strength of the case or "you will realize that the evidence doesn't answer every question one may have".

And the rest of us must have missed the trial.

Wounded. But then there is that bizarre thing... Have you ever been to a bazaar?

ETA: Just a lively debate of course as I was advised this is.

 

[MassGuy]

BBM: What?? How do you know what I do?? Are some the self-appointed tutor of all and assume they have no knowledge or brain cells?

Unless you are Dan May or they are leaking info then you have no idea of what either side has to my knowledge in regards to the strength of the case or "you will realize that the evidence doesn't answer every question one may have".

Wounded.

Because if one follows cases regularly, they know that there are always loose ends.

Always questions that remain unanswered.

The fact that this is apparently a foreign concept, makes it pretty easy to reach that conclusion.

 

[ilovechili]

I never thought I would say anything like this, but well played, MG. Well played. IMO

I totally agree. Very well played.

 

[magicforest]

What Kelsey’s mom did, can’t be overstated.

She started a chain of events that led to the discovery of KK.

It was KK that provided evidence as to the underlying crime being a murder.

There’s no telling how this would have played out had Kelsey’s mom not found that blood.

MassGuy, I always wish I could read a blow by blow (no pun intended) description written by you, from start to finish, of how things went down in cases like this. You are logical and your writing is easy to understand. You also have strong recall of each case and can compare specific cases/strategies with other cases you've studied. You have experience sleuthing many other cases and can tie the pieces together regarding both how perps behave and how LE behaves. It's really fascinating and I enjoy catching up on cases through you. Thank you!

 

[MyBelle]

They found a sufficient amount of blood in the townhome on the evening of the 20th. PF was arrested the next morning. MOO

They got the arrest warrant because they had already conducted two searches of the Frazee property and possible evidence seized. There was possible evidence removed from the townhome on the 20th but I seriously doubt DNA testing was completed on any of it the same day.

JMO

 

[MemPat]

DBM

 

[susiQ]

Just reaching back to the early days of the PC and news reports. They just tear me up all over again May justice come soon.

Here's a good recap by Sam Kramer posted March 8, 2019:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[MyBelle]

They found a sufficient amount of blood in the townhome on the evening of the 20th. PF was arrested the next morning. MOO

"Sufficient?" What exactly is sufficient? In the Jessica O'Grady trial, the drenched mattress and drywall were actually brought into the courtroom. I seriously doubt a "sufficient" amount of blood was found in the condo because KK claimed she cleaned it up.....or it was never there to begin with. In the O'Grady case, the defendant was convicted of second degree murder. They also found the weapon. There is no weapon recovered in this case.

The arrest affidavit really doesn't mention any blood other than the blood in the bathroom found by KB's mother that tested positive to be KB's. It mentions what KK claimed she cleaned up but it doesn't indicate any of it tested positive to belong to KB. The arrest warrant makes it abundantly clear it is based on the evidence obtained from the cell phones and interviews with KK's friends as well as with KK, the inconsistencies and the bloody scene she claimed she cleaned, item #68--70.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...lication and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf
Affidavit reveals how investigators used cellphone evidence to arrest Patrick Frazee

 

[Steelslady]

"I want to make clear that this is not directed at you at all but just generally. I used the post as a jumping off point."

Nor was I directing my post at you. Notice that I said "And it seems that it is women that are the most obsessed with finding her as the most guilty party."

And you say you don't believe she is more guilty than him, right?

I'm equally angry at both of them. Equal, but for different reasons. KK had the opportunity to save Kelsey's life, but instead, told her best friend, who told her employers. KK cleaned up his mess and helped him with the fire. KK helped try to cover things up, until she was busted by those lawyers talking to LE. KK took Kelsey's phone with her. So many things she did- she may not have swung that bat that caused Kelsey's life to end, but she did go twice to do it, but backed out. Even knocked on her door and brought her coffee, with her aunt in the truck. So, not only did she know he was going to do this if she didn't herself, but she attempted twice to do it. I wonder, would PF have cleaned up HER mess had she succeeded?

That rat killed a beautiful lady and a beautiful Mom in a vicious manner. What sick and evil pig takes a baseball bat to the mother of his child, over what- custody? He obviously didn't want to be with Kelsey anymore- gee, was she in the way of him living his happy rodeo life, with his rodeo queen and his Mama, the live in baby sitter? I hate him. I hate her. It's simple.

If only we could give these killers the same treatment that they gave their victims. Sorry, but that's how I feel. Disgusted with him, and that is just too kind of an adjective.

 

[MassGuy]

"Sufficient?" What exactly is sufficient? In the Jessica O'Grady trial, the drenched mattress and drywall were actually brought into the courtroom. I seriously doubt a "sufficient" amount of blood was found in the condo because KK claimed she cleaned it up.....or it was never there to begin with. In the O'Grady case, the defendant was convicted of second degree murder. They also found the weapon. There is no weapon recovered in this case.

The arrest affidavit really doesn't mention any blood other than the blood in the bathroom found by KB's mother that tested positive to be KB's. It mentions what KK claimed she cleaned up but it doesn't indicate any of it tested positive to belong to KB. The arrest warrant makes it abundantly clear it is based on the evidence obtained from the cell phones and interviews with KK's friends as well as with KK, the inconsistencies and the bloody scene she claimed she cleaned, item #68--70.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Application and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf
Affidavit reveals how investigators used cellphone evidence to arrest Patrick Frazee

“Sufficient” in the sense that it corroborated KK’s account.

More detail was provided during the preliminary hearing.

No matter how much blood was found, it almost certainly wasn’t in a quantity that by itself, proved Kelsey was dead.

But enough blood was found to make it apparent that Kelsey was in fact attacked there.

With everything else, it will show that she was murdered there.

 

[Dave F.]

As of July 29, 2019, the Pikes Peak Courier newspaper of Woodland Park, reporting on death statistics for 2018:
"The new report recorded no homicides for last year.
The presumed death of 29-year-old mother and Woodland Park resident K***** B******, who was last seen publicly on Thanksgiving Day, is not documented as a homicide because her body hasn’t been found, authorities have said.
“It’s still a homicide investigation; it’s being investigated as no-body homicide,” De Y**** said of the high-profile case, which captured worldwide media attention."
Report: Middle-aged white men most likely to die of suicide in Teller County

 

[SandyQLS]

The trial is scheduled to begin one month from now. What about that partial tooth sent for consumptive DNA testing?

 

[ilovechili]

^^SBM

Trying to figure out what I've missed.

I read your timeline.

What exactly is the defense currently recording that's going to pave their way to an appeal?

You lost me! TIA

It is not a timeline because I did not put everything out there I could have.

IANAL but plenty of them have said exactly that, HLN, podcasts, etc. or surmised it as those often retired experts on shows do--or currently licensed attorneys. Also generally, it is the defense's job. I think most have us seen where an appeal is filed right after sentencing before everyone leaves the court room or it is at least stated as the intent.

From the very beginning, some have said because of the arrest warrant was it being sealed etc. and kept from the defense was a start right there. Most recently, the defense was cut short by a day. They of course fought to keep testimony out of the social worker and lost. Both sides argued law and reason over that. They argued over agreement on how to do the consumptive testing.

I have no idea what all are grounds for appeal but we all know it is continued until they have nothing else to use in most cases, especially those convicted of murder.

I believe personally it is part of the reason people on death row in some states are not executed for years on end--because the appeals continue...

Of course there was no death penalty sought here. Still, he is looking at life so yes, I believe of course as they defend him they are also logging possibilities for later appeal if need be. I simply think that is what a defense does. I do know that an appeal can be sought over ineffective counsel so I would think they are doing their job effectively and covering their bases, including what they think can be used in the future for appeal?

Jmo of course. Experts can feel free to weigh in. I would like to know as well.

 

[303gmf]

New to this case and can certainly understand everyone's frustration here on this thread. What a terrible crime. The meticulous work done on the time lines is so impressive. @Gardener1850 and @Tippy Lynn - what a labor of love for Kelsey.

Most of us follow so many cases closely, but this one is one of the worst. It feels like it could happen to anyone, that Kelsey had no way of seeing it coming and I struggle to even begin to fathom PF's psychology (and I have done research in jails, prisons and, especially, mental hospitals for the criminally insane). I can't even venture a guess as to the causes of his psychopathology.

How does a man even come up with such a plan? Cruel and brutal as he is, he is also one of the stupidest criminals I've ever read about. Stupid and violent and completely without remorse or even (to me) any kind of motive that makes sense. I'd hate to be one of his jailers and I bet he doesn't get along well with others in jail (and will not fare well in prison, either). So many antisocial personality types are much smarter. I keep thinking that he rode a long way on his "looks" and that is going to be the opposite of what he needs in prison.

"Plan" should have been in quotes.

I'm sure you all have discussed all of this to death in the many threads. I think KK is insane as well and was either the primary "planner" or at least, very much an instigator.

I'm about to give up on trying to understand humans. Surely these people are not the same species as the rest of us.

Glad you’re here for Kelsey!
Liked many of your posts on tragic Mackenzie L case

 

[ilovechili]

Thank you. That helps put everything in perspective.

So it looks like the search of the home was completed before she gave her account.

I do wonder if LE ever believed her claim that she purposely left clues for them to find. I know I certainly don't.

Me either. I find it one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Why not leave them a weapon, a tooth OR not go clean up for your sweetie in the first place? Oh that is right because she was scared of him? Well then stay with your ex-husband, have him protect you and you there to protect your kids as well and call LE??

It is just one of those things I think will be found a bit difficult to believe. ITA. I certainly do not believe it either.

Jmo.

 

[303gmf]

Yes @PommyMommy -- that's how I remember it.

CB got Investigators to come back to check out the bathroom.

KK gave them the narrative of where PF beat KB to death, and told them where to look for blood splatter including the fireplace rock wall, window smear, ceiling, etc. When Investigators located this evidence that corroborated KK's story, they knew she'd been there cleaning up for PF.

MOO

ETA: IMO, WPPD released the crime scene without discovering any of the blood evidence because they were not looking for it. They bought PF's lies that KB was not missing involuntarily -- that she was unstable, and

Oops! Posted by error, agree WPPD didn’t investigate thoroughly!
Have heard through the local grapevine some are no longer with the department

 

[ilovechili]

31 days and counting down.

 

[ilovechili]

Snipped and bolded by me for focus:

We're currently on Thread #55 in a case that hasn't even gone to trial yet, that hardly qualifies as being a quiet case thread here.

In terms of there being not much new ground to cover, that's to be expected.

It's not like DA May or PF are going to be doing any Dateline or 20/20 interviews between now and the trial.

Fortunately, with PF's murder trial slated to begin next month, there's plenty of case material for all of us to review. e.g., search warrants, arrest affidavit, hearings, motions, etc. in advance.

I have not seen a single post or poster here defending either PF's or KK's actions. Ever.
That's a ridiculous assertion for anyone to make.

JMO.

I think you missed the points.

There is not much new right now unless I missed something since the last coverage?

I also said I do not see how anyone can defend either of them? There are people out there who do. Easy enough to find.

If I want to read into a post as you just did here with mine, I am getting a bit weary of being called bizarre and ridiculous. I prefer to discuss a case.

However, I have a thick skin so I am fine with it.

Just clarifying my comments.

Jmo.

ETA: BBM.

 

[PommyMommy]

They got the arrest warrant because they had already conducted two searches of the Frazee property and possible evidence seized. There was possible evidence removed from the townhome on the 20th but I seriously doubt DNA testing was completed on any of it the same day.

JMO

Yes, sufficient evidence from the ranchette and the townhome. So much that the defense had to delay a hearing, IIRC. A mountain! MOO