Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[Dave F.]

The phone information and his lies are damning.

KK is needed to provide clarity to everything.

Where the murder occurred. How the murder occurred. Where Kelsey’s body was stored. How and where her body was burned. Those solicitation attempts. How those attempts happened. What was happening when those texts were sent. Why those texts were sent.

Besides that, she directed law enforcement to alot of evidence, and the evidence seems to corroborate all of it.

They had no idea that Kelsey was murdered, and that it happened in that house. When law enforcement returned, they found probable blood under the floorboards, on the fireplace, and god knows where else.

Without her, there wouldn’t have been murder charges in the first place.

She gave them a lot, and hopefully will put the nail in PF’s coffin at trial.

I don't understand. Are you saying LE would have barely any case at all if it wasn't for KK?
It's a question.

 

[MassGuy]

I don't understand. Are you saying LE would have barely any case at all if it wasn't for KK?
It's a question.

They didn’t have a murder without her. So yes!

Without her, all that evidence would not have been found, and law enforcement would have been unable to prove a crime was committed.

 

[GordianKnot]

I don't understand. Are you saying LE would have barely any case at all if it wasn't for KK?
It's a question.

I think the DA's case would be much less solid without KK's cooperation.
I think that's the reason, the one and only reason, he made a deal with her.

When I think of KK's testimony and the objective evidence (forensic, physical, electronic, etc) in my mind's eye, they're both essential parts to the whole of the prosecution's case.

The evidence supports KK's account.
KK's account gives context to the evidence.
They're inextricably linked.

Together, they tell the story of this horrendous crime to the jury.

KK's testimony, when coupled with all of the corroborating evidence, will give the jury a crystal clear picture regarding what, when, why and who murdered KB.

JMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Do not get your hopes up on the Wal Mart security cameras catching the auto exchange. The cameras at WM and other stores are

1. Dummy cameras/do not work
2. Not able to take in a wide shot of the area
3. Not able to go much farther then 1/5 of the parking lot,
So the farther away from the store the less likely the
Camera will pick up anything
4. The tapes are NOT changed out like they are supposed
To be
5. The tapes are reused after 24 hours so all prior info is
Gone
6. Oh....cameras are working but no tapes are set in to
Make them working cameras

Who decides all this...management, security departments, and employees working that department that particular day.

BUT I hope I am wrong here and LE has some good footage.

BBM. What is your basis? I ask because Walmart surveillance video evidence has factored in so many cases:

Man Accused of Rape, Assault on Walking Trail in Scranton

Martinsville woman charged after infant rescued from car at Walmart parking lot

Thieves steal vintage Corvette in 19 seconds while owner shopped in Sterling Heights

 

[susiQ]

Been quite a day here.

Soooo, here goes AND this is not directed at anyone Just my humble thoughts.

With respect to all the hatred being directed at KK, I don't believe it's very complicated. We ALL hate PF, no question there as he was indeed the one that "swung the bat." And, he's in prison where he belongs for the rest of his days. We are "satisfied" on that account. I don't think KK will screw up enough that a jury won't see PF for what he is, the murderer. Perhaps early on there were a few members who saw KK as the likely killer, but once the AA was released, they quietly went on their way

What is eating many of us, is her deal. And this is where the indignation and loathing of her comes from. We don't hate her more than PF. We hate her just as much! Just not enough of a punishment for what she did and didn't do. I don't care what she suffers in this life, she's alive and she still has friends that support her and make excuses for her and she's able to BREATHE. She, as a woman, relished in seeing KB die, just not at her own hand. She had enough brain matter to realize if something went sideways (and boy did it!) she wouldn't be the one with LWOP. As @kmac said earlier, she WANTED KB dead as much as he did so she conspired and likely encouraged that s*c*u*m*b*a*g to do it. I know, he would have done it anyway BUT maybe not if she had had one decent bone in her body and gone to LE. We're all focused on what she didn't do, some of us on the fact that she didn't swing the bat, some of us on her not doing the morally right thing because in her black heart she thought only of herself and could not muster ONE sympathetic thought for the woman she wanted dead so SHE could have that putrid monster. That repulsive creature, KK, actually got an ego boost from PF killing KB. Sick and sicker. She set herself up to be pitied by going to MS. She was SO afraid of him but hopped in her car at his command to go clean up "a mess" and then watched what she believed was KB's body in a tote burn at the Franchette. Hideous woman!

I know who killed KB, and I for one would have no problem watching PF hang in the town square. As far as KK goes, I would like to have seen her spend some considerable time behind bars craving her next Sonic meal she'll get twenty years down the road. What she did and didn't do deserves more than 18 months or God forbid probation! We're not dwelling on PF because he's getting what he rightfully deserves. SHE is not, and this is why we can't seem to let it go. Whatever they eventually give her, we are not "satisfied" justice was done in her regard. JMHO
ed:sp

 

[pcrum12]

Thanks to all that chimed in. It's just challenging to not want KK to face the deserved penalty as SusiQ stated so well. I just wanted a little clarification on the two sides. Crazy case we have here.

 

[ilovechili]

It’s bordering on obsession, just read the comments on any news article.

This guy beat Kelsey to death, but all the focus and rage is directed towards her.

She should be hated, and in an ideal world she should have paid a steeper price, but he’s the one who is directly responsible for Kelsey’s murder.

He’s the one on trial for murder, not KK.

View a murder or suicide scene (not just through media or court) and then explain it.

I have had words put in my mouth again from your friend. I do not and never have said I see PF as innocent and KK as worse. They are both evil.

Before I am corrected, I know you did not direct this message to me, duh, so I am not being bizarre.

KK cleaned up congealed most likely blood of a young mother from her home, her daughter's things, etc. and even got on her hands and knees and retrieved a tooth.

I read this thread for months before I said anything. Way back when when it was all a sexist conversation.

I am on another case where everyone has trashed the mother (well actually a couple) who had never been arrested nor named a suspect. Funny how cases vary.

All with due respect, all my very humble opinion and have a great evening

MOO.

ETA: Meaning I think the men who are criminals are horrible but I see a whole lot of people judging the women on other cases who are never even suspects. KK admitted to some of her acts. And they are NASTY.

 

[MemPat]

Well, reading just these few lines, I realized that I was basically just restating another poster's brilliant analysis of this case. Unfortunately, I don't recall which poster it was who came up with it, exactly, but here it is again:

"The MassGuy Theorem"

If we took KK out of the equation, KB would still be dead.
If we took PF out of the equation, KB would still be alive.

That really is sheer genius.

I hope DA May uses that in his closing arguments, along with a bunch of other lines from this forum.

Maybe we should go back and post some of our favorite lines from previous threads here.
There've been a ton of notable quotes throughout these 55 threads.

JMO.

Still awaiting a Fave-from-the-Frazees Fix from all you friends!

 

[GordianKnot]

Still awaiting a Fave-from-the-Frazees Fix from all you friends!

Here's one I pulled out of the archives.
It will probably forever be counted among my Top 10 posts of all time.
As a reference, it can be found on Thread #29, post #1502.
On 01/13/19, MassGuy responds to a post addressing reports of PF's cruelty to animals with the following:

Well I certainly wouldn’t want to watch this guy working on my horse (if I had one).

“Is it normal that he’s smacking Ed (that would be his name) with a rasp?”

That story about him getting kicked in the head, still brings a smile to my face.

If this was a Disney movie, I’d bet that all the animals on his “ranch” would be singing when he was hauled away.

________________

That post belongs in the WS Hall of Fame, the fact that WS doesn't have a Hall of Fame, notwithstanding.

JMO.

 

[gitana1]

Been quite a day here.

Soooo, here goes AND this is not directed at anyone Just my humble thoughts.

With respect to all the hatred being directed at KK, I don't believe it's very complicated. We ALL hate PF, no question there as he was indeed the one that "swung the bat." And, he's in prison where he belongs for the rest of his days. We are "satisfied" on that account. I don't think KK will screw up enough that a jury won't see PF for what he is, the murderer. Perhaps early on there were a few members who saw KK as the likely killer, but once the AA was released, they quietly went on their way

What is eating many of us, is her deal. And this is where the indignation and loathing of her comes from. We don't hate her more than PF. We hate her just as much! Just not enough of a punishment for what she did and didn't do. I don't care what she suffers in this life, she's alive and she still has friends that support her and make excuses for her and she's able to BREATHE. She, as a woman, relished in seeing KB die, just not at her own hand. She had enough brain matter to realize if something went sideways (and boy did it!) she wouldn't be the one with LWOP. As @kmac said earlier, she WANTED KB dead as much as he did so she conspired and likely encouraged that s*c*u*m*b*a*g to do it. I know, he would have done it anyway BUT maybe not if she had had one decent bone in her body and gone to LE. We're all focused on what she didn't do, some of us on the fact that she didn't swing the bat, some of us on her not doing the morally right thing because in her black heart she thought only of herself and could not muster ONE sympathetic thought for the woman she wanted dead so SHE could have that putrid monster. That repulsive creature, KK, actually got an ego boost from PF killing KB. Sick and sicker. She set herself up to be pitied by going to MS. She was SO afraid of him but hopped in her car at his command to go clean up "a mess" and then watched what she believed was KB's body in a tote burn at the Franchette. Hideous woman!

I know who killed KB, and I for one would have no problem watching PF hang in the town square. As far as KK goes, I would like to have seen her spend some considerable time behind bars craving her next Sonic meal she'll get twenty years down the road. What she did and didn't do deserves more than 18 months or God forbid probation! We're not dwelling on PF because he's getting what he rightfully deserves. SHE is not, and this is why we can't seem to let it go. Whatever they eventually give her, we are not "satisfied" justice was done in her regard. JMHO
ed:sp

PF has not been convicted. So he's not in prison for the rest of his days. He's not yet getting what he deserves. Not by a long shot. Not without Missy Sahib and her deal with the state which ties it all together.

That's the problem. People are so enraged by the thought of KK getting off they forgot PF hasn't been convicted yet. And likely wouldn't have come close without the deal.

 

[susiQ]

PF has not been convicted. So he's not in prison for the rest of his days. He's not yet getting what he deserves. Not by a long shot. Not without Missy Sahib and her deal with the state which ties it all together.

That's the problem. People are so enraged by the thought of KK getting off they forgot PF hasn't been convicted yet. And likely wouldn't have come close without the deal.

True, he has not been convicted yet, but I'm pretty confident he will be with KK's testimony. But, that she devil only spilled the beans when she KNEW the gig was up. My issue is not that she got a deal, it's the deal she got. Even if she gets 18 months, it is not nearly enough for what she did regardless of helping nail that worthless piece of skin. That's my humble opinion. However, I understand I have no choice but to accept the DA's decision. Doesn't mean I have to like it. I was only trying to convey WHY it appears we hate KK more than PF. We don't. We despise them equally
ed: wording

 

[MemPat]

True, he has not been convicted yet, but I'm pretty confident he will be with KK's testimony. But, that she devil only spilled the beans when she KNEW the gig was up. My issue is not that she got a deal, it's the deal she got. Even if she gets 18 months, it is not nearly enough for what she did regardless of helping nail that worthless piece of skin. That's my humble opinion. However, I understand I have no choice but to accept the DA's decision. Doesn't mean I have to like it. I was only trying to convey WHY it appears we hate KK more than PF. We don't. We despise them equally
ed: wording

I can't help myself for not being one who despises KK and Frazee equally, though I respect everyone else's right to do so.

Without him KK was just a homely rodeo queen living her life miles away with her husband and kids, not even knowing Kelsey.

Frazee romanced Kelsey on the Internet, got her pregnant and then sought out girlfriend-from-the-past, KK to commit murder.

Then he sought her again and again and again.

He finally wanted Kelsey dead so badly he killed her all by himself.

That makes him infinitely more despicable to me.

MOO

 

[susiQ]

I can't help myself for not being one who despises KK and Frazee equally, though I respect everyone else's right to do so.

Without him KK was just a homely rodeo queen living her life miles away with her husband and kids, not even knowing Kelsey.

Frazee romanced Kelsey on the Internet, got her pregnant and then sought out girlfriend-from-the-past, KK to commit murder.

Then he sought her again and again and again.

He finally wanted Kelsey dead so badly he killed her all by himself.

That makes him infinitely more despicable to me.

MOO

I respect your opinion MemPat, but do not share it. She may deserve less time behind bars than PF, but it makes her no less despicable to me. I loathe her. She didn't swing the bat, but she did nothing to prevent an innocent mother from being brutally murdered, and it's not like she didn't have time to really think about what they were planning to do. The solicitations allegedly began in September of '18. IF, and I'm not stating she was, she was in the "family" way , there could have been some powerful motive on her part as well. When summoned to hold up her end of the bargain and play Molly Maid in her hazmat suit, she willingly obliged in a timely fashion. I still marvel at her stamina that weekend. Running on adrenaline I imagine. MOO
ed:wrong emoji came up

 

[gitana1]

True, he has not been convicted yet, but I'm pretty confident he will be with KK's testimony. But, that she devil only spilled the beans when she KNEW the gig was up. My issue is not that she got a deal, it's the deal she got. Even if she gets 18 months, it is not nearly enough for what she did regardless of helping nail that worthless piece of skin. That's my humble opinion. However, I understand I have no choice but to accept the DA's decision. Doesn't mean I have to like it. I was only trying to convey WHY it appears we hate KK more than PF. We don't. We despise them equally
ed: wording

Yeah. I think most of us are with you on that. The sentence sure doesn't fit the crime.

 

[Seattle1]

Yeah. I think most of us are with you on that. The sentence sure doesn't fit the crime.

She reached an agreement to plead guilty to felony tampering charges -- a class 6 felony.

This carries a possible sentence range anywhere from probation to 18 months in prison.

If the judge decides there was an aggravating factor in the case, sentencing guidelines extend to a possible sentence of 3 years in prison.

Unfortunately -- KK only faces a class 6 felony.

As with most plea deals, it looks like the judge will have the final say on her sentence, and I hope the victim impact statements are enough for the judge to see that not even 3 years could ever be enough, and stick to the maximum for aggravating factors.

Also, I wonder if the group that was promoting KK face murder charge will start letter campaign to Judge for maximum penalty.

MOO

 

[Noharg]

Some posters have expressed doubts the trial will begin as scheduled on October 28th. What most likely would delay the start? Jury selection?
TIA

 

[PommyMommy]

Some posters have expressed doubts the trial will begin as scheduled on October 28th. What most likely would delay the start? Jury selection?
TIA

I don't really have an opinion either way. It wouldn't surprise me if the trial is moved, but neither would I bet on it. If it is delayed, it shouldn't be because of jury selection because that is what is supposed to begin on Oct. 28. (Hope that makes sense!) MOO

No 'alternate suspect' allowed at Berreth murder trial
Jury selection is slated to begin Oct. 28.

 

[Dave F.]

Some posters have expressed doubts the trial will begin as scheduled on October 28th. What most likely would delay the start? Jury selection?
TIA

Here are just a few possibilities that could cause a delay, that come to mind:
1. The prosecution could decide to do some more evidence testing. They don't seem to ever get it all done.
2. The prosecution could file an answer to the defense notification of general Denial defense, to force a hearing to clarify what can and can't be introduced in the way of Alternate Suspect defense.
3. The judge could decide to hold a hearing on the matter of Alternate Suspect Defense, in order to avoid appeal later on.
4. One or more of the prosecution witnesses could either be very ill, missing altogether, or simply hostile to defense queries.......causing reason to delay the trial until the both sides can prepare accordingly.
5. New information could appear in the case. For example, if an article belonging to the victim was discovered at a random location not previously investigated.
6. The defendant could become ill.
7. As the notices to appear for jury selection are returned, Teller county might request a postponement in order to have a supplementary jury draw.

This is just a quick guess. Prosecutor Dan May has stated several times that murder trials in the fourth district take about a year. This one is currently scheduled to begin in ten months.
JMO

 

[ilovechili]

Yep, 33 days and counting...

 

[Steelslady]

I respect your opinion MemPat, but do not share it. She may deserve less time behind bars than PF, but it makes her no less despicable to me. I loathe her. She didn't swing the bat, but she did nothing to prevent an innocent mother from being brutally murdered, and it's not like she didn't have time to really think about what they were planning to do. The solicitations allegedly began in September of '18. IF, and I'm not stating she was, she was in the "family" way , there could have been some powerful motive on her part as well. When summoned to hold up her end of the bargain and play Molly Maid in her hazmat suit, she willingly obliged in a timely fashion. I still marvel at her stamina that weekend. Running on adrenaline I imagine. MOO
ed:wrong emoji came up

I agree with everything you said and then some. I feel the exact same way. She was going to try and kill her, bringing her coffee, with her aunt in the car. Saint she ain't.