Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[CDB]

There has been some spirited debate on the many threads for this case.

I certainly have shared my position with passion, but I do feel it worth stating, that I very much appreciate the members who have counter points and disagree with my position.

I know when you are in a minority position it can feel frustrating. I want to say thank you and please continue questioning, it is your counter points that encourage me to reconsider my position and justify my reasoning.

I promise though it may feel I am deaf, I am considering the jeopardy that KK may represent as a witness, the idea that her punishment is woefully unfitting, and also that without the body the time of death and cause of death remain questionable.

I still remain of the thought that KK's deal is necessary, I believe without it much of the physical evidence would not even be available. I find her disgusting and despicable, but can swallow her punishment, only because my view of the timeline is her deal precipitated the arrest of PF so closely it had to be directly related.

That being said, I continue to appreciate your questioning and hope that each of you continue to share your perspective and views, I do not have to agree with you, but I do want you to know I respect what you say and feel it is valuable to consider.

ETA: I am not singling out anyone. I do not think anyone has particularly attacked anyone, I just want to simply thank those that differ in opinion from me.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Here are just a few possibilities that could cause a delay, that come to mind:
1. The prosecution could decide to do some more evidence testing. They don't seem to ever get it all done.
2. The prosecution could file an answer to the defense notification of general Denial defense, to force a hearing to clarify what can and can't be introduced in the way of Alternate Suspect defense.
3. The judge could decide to hold a hearing on the matter of Alternate Suspect Defense, in order to avoid appeal later on.
4. One or more of the prosecution witnesses could either be very ill, missing altogether, or simply hostile to defense queries.......causing reason to delay the trial until the both sides can prepare accordingly.
5. New information could appear in the case. For example, if an article belonging to the victim was discovered at a random location not previously investigated.
6. The defendant could become ill.
7. As the notices to appear for jury selection are returned, Teller county might request a postponement in order to have a supplementary jury draw.

This is just a quick guess. Prosecutor Dan May has stated several times that murder trials in the fourth district take about a year. This one is currently scheduled to begin in ten months.
JMO

I look for the trial to begin around the first of the year. I don’t think the defense will want to move the case to another location. But I do consider how potential jurors would feel hearing the details of a murder case during the holidays. I wouldn’t want all that gore on my mind while shopping for Christmas presents for my family or enjoying a Thanksgiving dinner knowing a young mother was murdered likely on Thanksgiving Day.

 

[Dave F.]

I look for the trial to begin around the first of the year. I don’t think the defense will want to move the case to another location. But I do consider how potential jurors would feel hearing the details of a murder case during the holidays. I wouldn’t want all that gore on my mind while shopping for Christmas presents for my family or enjoying a Thanksgiving dinner knowing a young mother was murdered likely on Thanksgiving Day.

It does seem to be really inappropriate timing. IMO

 

[susiQ]

I look for the trial to begin around the first of the year. I don’t think the defense will want to move the case to another location. But I do consider how potential jurors would feel hearing the details of a murder case during the holidays. I wouldn’t want all that gore on my mind while shopping for Christmas presents for my family or enjoying a Thanksgiving dinner knowing a young mother was murdered likely on Thanksgiving Day.

I see what you mean, but on the other hand sitting through this trial precisely in and around Thanksgiving would be a very sobering experience no doubt. MHO

 

[Love Never Fails]

It does seem to be really inappropriate timing. IMO

All of your reasons a delay might be considered are good as well. I suspect just a few trial motions would cause delays.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I see what you mean, but on the other hand sitting through this trial precisely in and around Thanksgiving would be a very sobering experience no doubt. MHO

Well, just hearing about the murder through news is sobering enough. I believe we should be thinking of our children and family members during the holidays and being thankful for what we have and not sitting all day in a courtroom hearing about blood splatter. JMO.

 

[ilovechili]

I look for the trial to begin around the first of the year. I don’t think the defense will want to move the case to another location. But I do consider how potential jurors would feel hearing the details of a murder case during the holidays. I wouldn’t want all that gore on my mind while shopping for Christmas presents for my family or enjoying a Thanksgiving dinner knowing a young mother was murdered likely on Thanksgiving Day.

Yah, allegedly PF told KK how much trouble he had eating at Ma's after doing what he did.

Great point, most jurors would not want to see pictures of blood, gore and hear details before the holidays.

This trial is fitting for over Halloween imo.

I still doubt it will be held on time though.

Jmo.

 

[mickey2942]

KK getting a sweetheart deal is worth getting PF in prison.

It would make me ill if PF got the baby. He is a monster.

 

[GordianKnot]

Well, just hearing about the murder through news is sobering enough. I believe we should be thinking of our children and family members during the holidays and being thankful for what we have and not sitting all day in a courtroom hearing about blood splatter. JMO.

KB should be looking ahead to the holidays, planning Baby K's Halloween costume, getting out her favorite family recipes for Thanksgiving, making her Christmas wish lists, etc.

But she isn't going to be doing any of that.

On account of PF murdered her.

She won't be looking forward to or celebrating any holidays ever again.

On account of PF murdered her.

If jurors are unhappy about the timing of the trial falling so near the holidays, DA May can always offer apologies for any temporary inconvenience or disruption hearing about KB's blood splatter may bring into their lives.

Then he can remind them that Kelsey's upcoming holiday plans were permanently disrupted, and by permanently, I mean, forevermore.

On account of PF murdered her.

If the prosecution is ready to move ahead come October, I say, "All rise," bang that gavel, judge, and let's get that trial underway.

JMO.

 

[ilovechili]

KK getting a sweetheart deal is worth getting PF in prison.

It would make me ill if PF got the baby. He is a monster.

No disagreement here. She will do herself in one day, it is who she seems to be. That baby will never end up with him, even I a law abiding citizen would go nuts as would many, many people...

My dream is and will always be that the both end up behind bars.

Okay, darn it, in all honesty I have exceeded the speed limit on rare occasion and I guess that is not law abiding...

 

[MyBelle]

I look for the trial to begin around the first of the year. I don’t think the defense will want to move the case to another location. But I do consider how potential jurors would feel hearing the details of a murder case during the holidays. I wouldn’t want all that gore on my mind while shopping for Christmas presents for my family or enjoying a Thanksgiving dinner knowing a young mother was murdered likely on Thanksgiving Day.

I think the only reason the trial would be delayed at this point is if KB's remains are found. If it starts on Oct. 28 as scheduled, it likely will conclude before Thanksgiving. This case is not going to be the slam dunk many believe it will be because the prosecution's main witness has a serious credibility problem. The jury will know she lied to the FBI and she returned her friend's gun with a bullet missing.
JMO

 

[ilovechili]

Precise logic. And if KK was to renege on the deal and say something different, she wouldn't suddenly be charged with murder: "Oops! We see now we made a mistake. Sorry! Let's fix this with the correct charges."

That's fantasy. And like you said one that would have PF walk.

I have often felt there's more rage against KK than PF for this crime. More desire to see her locked up for life than a fear that PF will get off.

In fact, I suspect there are some who would be somewhat comfortable with PF walking while KK served life.

With all due respect, the sexism thing was hot on this case's threads as were many arguments long ago. Long before I ever joined it, but I read every single bit of every page before I joined.

I for one have ever EVER said I think PF is not guilty and KK is worse. The fact is he is where he belongs and SHE IS NOT.

Yet those words (not by you) keep being put in my mouth and I repeatedly say I never said any such thing (people can go back and look). I see the same thing happen to others. Nothing new.

They both are people I do not want on the streets and certainly not on mine.

Jmo.

 

[steeltowngirl]

It does seem to be really inappropriate timing. IMO

Nothing compared to the inappropriate timing of PF bashing the mother of his own child to death with a bat .... as she was trying to prepare a Thanksgiving sweet potato casserole for him ...... all with his own baby just steps away.

 

[MassGuy]

I think the only reason the trial would be delayed at this point is if KB's remains are found. If it starts on Oct. 28 as scheduled, it likely will conclude before Thanksgiving. This case is not going to be the slam dunk many believe it will be because the prosecution's main witness has a serious credibility problem. The jury will know she lied to the FBI and she returned her friend's gun with a bullet missing.
JMO

Of course if they are logical, they will know that the gun is wholly irrelevant.

Maybe a bullet was missing, and maybe it wasn’t. Maybe KK was responsible for that, and maybe she wasn’t. We’ll likely never know. Either way, Kelsey had almost certainly been murdered by that point.

Every case has loose ends, and this is likely to be one of several.

It’s curious, but it’s one big nothingburger IMO.

 

[mickey2942]

Nothing compared to the inappropriate timing of PF bashing the mother of his own child to death with a bat .... as she was trying to prepare a Thanksgiving sweet potato casserole for him ...... all with his own baby just steps away.

Agreed. I really think that men who kill their wives/girlfriends, are true psychopaths. They are killing a person who trusts them. There is something really wrong about them. They must have no soul, conscience, or guilt.

 

[MassGuy]

Nothing compared to the inappropriate timing of PF bashing the mother of his own child to death with a bat .... as she was trying to prepare a Thanksgiving sweet potato casserole for him ...... all with his own baby just steps away.

Absolutely. Let’s keep our eye on the ball here.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Actually, if the trial did begin on time and last for 3 weeks, I think it would be very appropriate to wrap up just a day or two before Thanksgiving.

Closing statements could include what GK said above, reminding the jury that as they deliberate and wrap up and move on to begin their holiday festivities - little KB and their family will never have another holiday with her mother. Ever. No holiday will ever be the same for the Berreth family.

PF robbed them of all of that and so much more.
Praying for Justice for Kelsey.

 

[MyBelle]

With all due respect, the sexism thing was hot on this case's threads as were many arguments long ago. Long before I ever joined it, but I read every single bit of every page before I joined.

I for one have ever EVER said I think PF is not guilty and KK is worse. The fact is he is where he belongs and SHE IS NOT.

Yet those words (not by you) keep being put in my mouth and I repeatedly say I never said any such thing (people can go back and look). I see the same thing happen to others. Nothing new.

They both are people I do not want on the streets and certainly not on mine.

Jmo.

ITA. Neither should be on the streets.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

KK not only allowed the murder of Kelsey to take place, but by her own admission, made three separate attempts on Kelsey’s life.

Also by her own admission, she helped clean up the crime scene, destroyed evidence, misled an investigation, and was complicit in a coverup.

The argument that she should be not be on the streets, is based on a false premise:

That someone said she should be on the streets in the first place.

Not a single person here has ever expressed the opinion that KK is being sentenced to an adequate prison term for her involvement.

What is being expressed, is that this deal is worth it if it puts Kelsey’s killer away.

 

[GordianKnot]

Nothing compared to the inappropriate timing of PF bashing the mother of his own child to death with a bat .... as she was trying to prepare a Thanksgiving sweet potato casserole for him ...... all with his own baby just steps away.

The incongruity of those last moments is so poignant.

We have KB reaching out in kindness to do something thoughtful and special for PF....
And we have PF, reaching for a baseball bat in response.

Talk about a stark contrast.

I ain't an emotional person, but thinking about that incongruity?

That gets to me.

JMO.