Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[MyBelle]

I honestly think KK thought they (PF and her) would get away with this crime and live happily ever after. She had the dirt on him and he would be forever in her debt, but she was also smart enough to keep an ace up her sleeve JIC.

MOO

I think KK has been seriously delusional for quite some time.

JMO

 

[Dave F.]

So, you’ve probably all discussed it to death, but did KK deliberately leave the blood stains in order to be able to keep PF from killing her too? She’d Would have a card up her sleeve, so to speak?

What are your guesses about that? That’s the only thing I can think of.

We only know, from the cause hearing, that any presumptive positive samples taken from anywhere in the condo EXCEPT the bathroom had not been tested at that time (February 2019). The spraying by police officers with Luminol or Blue Star will deliver a wide range of results, identifying a surprising range of common household substances. "Presumptive positive" becomes the code word for the lab to test it further for identification purposes.
Without any lab results at all, I certainly can't make a guess what KK was talking about.
IMO

 

[MyBelle]

How and when could she have gotten a hold of Kelsey's blood?

There has been no confirmation it was KB's blood.

 

[MassGuy]

There has been no confirmation it was KB's blood.

This isn’t true, the blood in the bathroom was identified as Kelsey’s.

 

[MyBelle]

We only know, from the cause hearing, that any presumptive positive samples taken from anywhere in the condo EXCEPT the bathroom had not been tested at that time (February 2019). The spraying by police officers with Luminol or Blue Star will deliver a wide range of results, identifying a surprising range of common household substances. "Presumptive positive" becomes the code word for the lab to test it further for identification purposes.
Without any lab results at all, I certainly can't make a guess what KK was talking about.
IMO

BBM. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[MsBetsy]

Strangely, I tend to believe her on this particular note since she went there with LE and pointed them out. IIRC, somewhere there's an article that mentions a photo taken of her doing so. MOO

I think those were just the spots where she had the hardest time removing the blood and she knew she didn't get it all.

Didn't she also say she turned on the cellphone at one point to leave investigators a clue? Why bother going through all of the trouble changing phones and getting rid of them, then?
Wouldn't that have been better evidence?

IMO

 

[MyBelle]

This isn’t true, the blood in the bathroom was identified as Kelsey’s.

My point was about the blood KK claimed she left for LE to find.

KK didn't claim to have left the blood in the bathroom. KB's parents found it.

JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

I think those were just the spots where she had the hardest time removing the blood and she knew she didn't get it all.

Didn't she also say she turned on the cellphone at one point to leave investigators a clue? Why bother going through all of the trouble changing phones and getting rid of them, then?
Wouldn't that have been better evidence?

IMO

I don't buy the cellphone bit. MOO

 

[Dave F.]

Snipped and BBM below:
Getting rid of the body in Florissant

Frazee moved Berreth’s body from her home in a black plastic tote, according to the affidavit. He drove to Nash Ranch in Park County on Nov. 22 and, using a tractor, placed the bag on top of a haystack.

In the afternoon or early evening of Nov. 24, Frazee and Kenney moved the tote from the ranch and drove it in his pickup back to his home in Florissant. Between 5:01 p.m. and 6:14 p.m., cell phones from both of them, as well as Berreth’s phone, pinged off a cell tower outside Cripple Creek, which is about 30 minutes south of Florissant.

Kenney told investigators that Frazee put the tote and other items from the house in a large trough — one that could hold about 100 gallons. Using motor oil and at least five gallons of gasoline, Frazee set the tote on fire.

Affidavit details events leading up to Berreth’s death

I was going to reply to this, but on second thought, I think I'll yield to the two detectives scheduled by the defense as witnesses in the trial. IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

The plan was to get away with murder. Planting evidence is the exact opposite of making it appear that Kelsey went off and killed herself.

Those phone records with fake texts and phone calls, make it clear that was the goal.

Logically, it makes no sense.

Practically, how does one even go about doing that:

Where did the blood come from?

How did she generate blood splatter and get it under the floorboards?

Why did she clean it up so well that law enforcement initially missed it?

Why did she want to implicate herself in a crime?

Why did she want to ruin her life?

This makes sense on no level.

Yeah, I can't imagine her coming up with such an elaborate plan considering all the stupid mistakes she made.

She would have to be sure there was no way to determine whose blood it was.

For KK to put that much thought and effort into framing her lover and then go straight from the scene to eat at a public place where there are cameras just doesn't make sense.

Besides all that, I think she was deeply in love and obsessed with Frazee and would have done anything to protect him. She only spoke up when she knew there was no other way out.

IMO

 

[MyBelle]

Yeah, I can't imagine her coming up with such an elaborate plan considering all the stupid mistakes she made.

She would have to be sure there was no way to determine whose blood it was.

For KK to put that much thought and effort into framing her lover and then go straight from the scene to eat at a public place where there are cameras just doesn't make sense.

Besides all that, I think she was deeply in love and obsessed with Frazee and would have done anything to protect him. She only spoke up when she knew there was no other way out.

IMO

Obsession and love are two vastly different things. I do believe KK was obsessed with PF but so far there has been no evidence that he was even in love with the woman.

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

There has been no confirmation it was KB's blood.

Well, she would have to be confident enough to think that LE couldn't identify whose blood it was, then. I'm not sure she would take such a risk.
I can't imagine agreeing to a plea deal knowing that her entire story could be discounted and she could end up in prison for the rest of her life.

IMO

 

[MassGuy]

Yeah, I can't imagine her coming up with such an elaborate plan considering all the stupid mistakes she made.

She would have to be sure there was no way to determine whose blood it was.

For KK to put that much thought and effort into framing her lover and then go straight from the scene to eat at a public place where there are cameras just doesn't make sense.

Besides all that, I think she was deeply in love and obsessed with Frazee and would have done anything to protect him. She only spoke up when she knew there was no other way out.

IMO

Exactly. Not only do I believe her incapable of doing something like that, but it’s inherently illogical based on her actions both before, and after.

Even if she was capable, Tom Bevel himself would struggle to pull that off.

If this was a movie plot, I walk out in the first five minutes.

 

[MsBetsy]

Obsession and love are two vastly different things. I do believe KK was obsessed with PF but so far there has been no evidence that he was even in love with the woman.

JMO

I don't think he was either. That she was obsessed with him worked to his advantage.

IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Obsession and love are two vastly different things. I do believe KK was obsessed with PF but so far there has been no evidence that he was even in love with the woman.

JMO

PF has no love for anyone but himself IMO.

 

[MassGuy]

PF has no love for anyone but himself IMO.

Absolutely agree.

He’s all about himself, something we have seen from so many killers like him.

How else do you explain beating the mother of your child to death?

 

[MsJosie]

The Florence Nightingale Pledge

Nightingale Pledge - Wikipedia

Nurses take The Florence Nightingale Pledge. In reading the Wikipedia explanation. The last one which is the current or more modern one....IMO KK has not held up her end as a professional trustworthy human being and nurse.

I am surprised her license is still active....for now....maybe after being convicted she will lose it. JMOO

 

[Dave F.]

This isn’t true, the blood in the bathroom was identified as Kelsey’s.

The testing of the smears in the bathroom was done on site, by a portable DNA typing device that is a general indicator, but has no where near the precision of lab testing. Only the large smear at the front of the base of the toilet was positively identified as KB's. Samples from the rest of the bathroom varied results. Only one male and two female DNA samples, all in the sink drain, were positively not KB's, but they were also positively not PF's, although one of the females had elements that could indicate that person was a relative of PF.
(Arrest Affidavit, Attachment A, Page 22, 1st and 2nd paragraphs)
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...lication and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf

 

[MassGuy]

The testing of the smears in the bathroom was done on site, by a portable DNA typing device that is a general indicator, but has no where near the precision of lab testing. Only the large smear at the front of the base of the toilet was positively identified as KB's. Samples from the rest of the bathroom varied results. Only one male and two female DNA samples, all in the sink drain, were positively not KB's, but they were also positively not PF's, although one of the females had elements that could indicate that person was a relative of PF.
(Arrest Affidavit, Attachment A, Page 22, 1st and 2nd paragraphs)
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Application and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf

I’m not seeing the portable device mentioned here. Can you please double check.

ETA: This is what Slater said on the stand:

Slater said a CBI analyst conducted a DNA test of the blood found in the bathroom and compared it to Kelsey Berreth’s. The profiles were a match, according to Slater.

 

[Dave F.]

I don't think he was either. That she was obsessed with him worked to his advantage.

IMO

I hate to be picky over choice of words, but PF is the one facing forty years without parole. while KK is getting "that sweet beauty of a deal" and will probably have to go through the bother of phoning in for a while.. It seems like the relationship, whatever it was, worked to her advantage...........at least in sentencing faced.
JMO