CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #56 *ARREST*

[Steelslady]

When the trial starts, will a new thread open in the Trials section?

Who is going to fly to Colorado, GordianKnot or MassGuy?

Both.

 

[Colorado303]

I actually do think that some people have made the argument that she could have been there on Thanksgiving Day.

That’s why I have to keep repeating “if she wasn’t there, she wasn’t there.”

As for the idea that Kelsey was taken from the house alive, I think it’s theoretically possible, while being astronomically unlikely.

His goal was to kill her, and taking her alive from that house would have been incredibly difficult, risky, and pointless.

He spent considerable time there for a reason, lied about this, and left blood in the bathroom (and likely other places).

An act of violence occurred there.

We know he had the tote in the back of his truck (surveillance video on the day of the murder), and Kelsey’s body was almost certainly placed in this tote.

It just doesn’t seem to make any sense that he’d put her in there alive, if the evidence even pointed to that (it doesn’t).

He had dinner to attend, and a body to hide.

So if you believe KK’s account, then the theory doesn’t work.

If you don’t believe KK’s account, it still doesn’t make much sense.

In the words of Randy Jackson, “yeah, that’s gonna be a no from me dawg.”

IMO if she left that house alive, it was only just barely. And the only reason I think there’s a .0001% that could be the case is because PF is clearly an idiot, and perhaps so stupid he doesn’t know the signs of life or didn’t think to check for them.

IF she left alive, and that’s a big if, she was mortally injured and died shortly thereafter. I don’t wear hats but I’ll eat someone elses if she was taken alive deliberately as part of some plan.

 

[MassGuy]

Well I am judging, and feel free to rip me apart. The tax payers help fund this trial and support PF's needs in prison- food, shelter, medical care, etc. The tax payers ARE the public! They have a right to know what happened to Kelsey and who the characters are that partook in this heinous crime.

This is garbage. The could allow a few media outlets with cameras/mikes set up inside and put it on TV for those who want to watch- maybe some family members of Kelsey's who live far away and can't come would like to watch it at home or record it for after work to watch. Or even KK's and PF's families, not that I give a whiff about any of them, but I do realize some of the are innocent and had nothing to do with this crime.

Media is pretty good about letting other media outlets use their live streams, so they wouldn't need all media outlets inside, but let a couple in, dammit! They're not the ones that cause the commotions in the court room.

This is just outrageous to me.

Typically, a pool camera would be used, so one outlet would set up a camera, and all outlets would have access to the live feed.

Colorado doesn’t typically allow trials to be televised in the first place, and the reasoning here does seem to be solid, regardless of that.

The most important thing is that the trial is open to the public, and the media is free to report on it via Twitter and other means.

We all want to watch it, and this is disappointing, but it is what it is.

Jumping off your post to address the exhibit issue. Those exhibits were presented to the judge in order to allow him to reach a decision as to if the case would go to trial.

Even though people in the courtroom would likely have been able to see them, they were prohibited from disseminating those images to the public.

It’s about protecting the integrity of the trial, and having potential jurors exposed to evidence like that beforehand, could prove detrimental to that end.

This is Colorado, and their open records laws are pretty amazing as far as we’re concerned.

We saw this at the conclusion of the Watts case, where we saw many hundreds of pages of discovery documents.

We’ll likely see all this stuff at some point here.

 

[MsJosie]

So, no cameras but
1) media can be in court room?
2)media can or cannot send live tweets?
3)media can only take notes and reveal the info on breaks?
4)can drawings be done of key players?
5) any other media can or cannots in the court room?

thanks for any feed back

 

[MassGuy]

So, no cameras but
1) media can be in court room?
2)media can or cannot send live tweets?
3)media can only take notes and reveal the info on breaks?
4)can drawings be done of key players?
5) any other media can or cannots in the court room?

thanks for any feed back

Yes, media can and will be in the courtroom. This will be just like the preliminary hearing, with reporters live Tweeting updates.

They can’t take photos and video from inside the courtroom though, but drawings would be fine.

 

[Colorado303]

Agreed.

You mentioned CW. I've been giving that some thought, and now I'm wondering:
CW murdered his wife and daughters in CO in August, 2018.
It was huge news everywhere...there's no way PF didn't hear about it.

PF reportedly began to solicit KK to murder KB around the beginning of September:
Affidavit details events leading up to Berreth’s death
SFA:
Between Sept. 1 and Nov. 22, 2018, Frazee solicited Kenney on at least three separate occasions, according to the affidavit.
______

I wonder if the Watts case planted the evil seeds in PF's mind re: murdering KB.

PF's takeaways from the Watts coverage may very well have been the following (incredibly ignorant) ideas:
"CW's mistake was in killing the daughters along with the wife. He should have just made it look like the wife decided to take off and leave them all."
"Note to Self: CW got caught because he got his hands dirty. If I get KK to do the killing for me, my hands will be clean. The cops will never be able to trace it back to me."

I also wonder if the Watts case is the only reason Baby K is alive today.
She may very well be alive because PF concluded it was the only way he could get away with murdering KB.

We'll never know, because unlike CW, PF will never talk.

Having said that, I won't be at all surprised if LE's analysis of PF's digital footprint revealed online searches and articles r/t the Watts case.

JMO.

All along I’ve thought he took pointers from CWs mistakes, but it didn’t occur to me there might be digital evidence of his “research”. I hope you’re right.

I’d like to think the Watts case didn’t start the ball rolling in his mind though. The thought of CW even indirectly contributing to the loss of another innocent life is just too much.

 

[ilovechili]

Preliminary was in February.

As of April MSM/ABC was still seeking release of exhibits.

Post #1102 second to last paragraph I think.

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

There may be reason but I have certainly never seen such a thing--until this case.

Jmo.

ETA: Release of the exhibits from the February preliminary.

 

[?mysterian?]

Thank you! I don't recall the expired tags at all, and couldn't find this incident in the warrant section that describes KK borrowing the black VW, and MG's account about her altered gun.

Last I recall, Idaho is one of those states where your license tags identify the county you live in (like area codes in the old days)...

I know MG was moving at the time, and asked to borrow KK's truck for the move. There's 30 day grace period post expiration -- perhaps MG postponed renewal for her new address.

You're welcome! As soon as I saw your post I remembered, because it's just another one of those unbelievable things about this case: that KK could drive that far during a holiday weekend period, when most available LE officers were probably on patrol, and didn't get pulled over for having expired tags.

 

[?mysterian?]

The statement by Slater I'm referring to is under Nov. 24th in the timeline and he specifically identifies PF and KK going back to the townhouse to pick up his truck. It's just one of those things that doesn't add up and I'm not sure it even matters. I just hate loose ends and I'm guessing this case has a few of them

IIRC, I don't think all the documents were released back in March (I think) when many of the search warrants were released, so it may be something that was held back for some reason. It doesn't make sense as it is, there does seem to be some missing information. IMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

All along I’ve thought he took pointers from CWs mistakes, but it didn’t occur to me there might be digital evidence of his “research”. I hope you’re right.

I’d like to think the Watts case didn’t start the ball rolling in his mind though. The thought of CW even indirectly contributing to the loss of another innocent life is just too much.

I don't think he was influenced by the Watt's case, and I don't think he ever would have considered killing the baby.
I believe that his wanting total control over the baby is the reason he killed Kelsey. That and the fact that he resented her being in his life and the child's life. Imo

 

[ilovechili]

Preliminary was in February.

As of April MSM/ABC was still seeking release of exhibits.

Post #1102 second to last paragraph I think.

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

There may be reason but I have certainly never seen such a thing--until this case.

Jmo.

ETA: Release of the exhibits from the February preliminary.

Were they all released? I know I have not heard the audio of PF...

 

[MassGuy]

Were they all released? I know I have not heard the audio of PF...

Nothing has been released. The prosecution had no issue with release, but the defense opposed it (for obvious reasons).

The judge has yet to rule for some reason.

 

[ilovechili]

The media on behalf of the public and the media itself had to request search warrants and exhibits, etc.

Yes, the judge has not ruled for "some reason". We apparently do not know the reason all of these months later.

Just saying I would not call it open records compared to some cases/states...

IMVHO.

 

[Colorado303]

I don't think he was influenced by the Watt's case, and I don't think he ever would have considered killing the baby.
I believe that his wanting total control over the baby is the reason he killed Kelsey. That and the fact that he resented her being in his life and the child's life. Imo

l agree with you that the Watts case didn’t influence his desire to kill KB. But I do think he made note of the many bonehead mistakes CW made and it guided his behavior after the fact.

CW made an idiot of himself blabbing to the media. PF didn’t even show up for the LE press conference.

CW thought a lawyer would make him look guilty. PF lawyered up immediately.

CW voluntarily let LE explore the crime scene and interview the hell out of him. PF demanded warrants, was uncooperative and exercised his right to remain silent.

CW put the bodies somewhere where they could/would be found. PF made sure we’d still be searching for Kelsey.

CW’s story the day SW disappeared changed depending on who he spoke with. PF stuck to the same version of events.

There are probably other things he did as well. Burner phones, etc. We will find out.

 

[ilovechili]

l agree with you that the Watts case didn’t influence his desire to kill KB. But I do think he made note of the many bonehead mistakes CW made and it guided his behavior after the fact.

CW made an idiot of himself blabbing to the media. PF didn’t even show up for the LE press conference.

CW thought a lawyer would make him look guilty. PF lawyered up immediately.

CW voluntarily let LE explore the crime scene and interview the hell out of him. PF demanded warrants, was uncooperative and exercised his right to remain silent.

CW put the bodies somewhere where they could/would be found. PF made sure we’d still be searching for Kelsey.

CW’s story the day SW disappeared changed depending on who he spoke with. PF stuck to the same version of events.

There are probably other things he did as well. Burner phones, etc. We will find out.

Food for thought and interesting comparisons.

Imo.

 

[MsBetsy]

l agree with you that the Watts case didn’t influence his desire to kill KB. But I do think he made note of the many bonehead mistakes CW made and it guided his behavior after the fact.

CW made an idiot of himself blabbing to the media. PF didn’t even show up for the LE press conference.

CW thought a lawyer would make him look guilty. PF lawyered up immediately.

CW voluntarily let LE explore the crime scene and interview the hell out of him. PF demanded warrants, was uncooperative and exercised his right to remain silent.

CW put the bodies somewhere where they could/would be found. PF made sure we’d still be searching for Kelsey.

CW’s story the day SW disappeared changed depending on who he spoke with. PF stuck to the same version of events.

There are probably other things he did as well. Burner phones, etc. We will find out.

Yes, for all we know he was following that case closely, since it seems as if he was planning Kelsey's murder for quite some time.
I guess I will have to give PF a little credit, since he doesn't appear to be quite as clueless as CW was, although some may disagree. He may have learned from his mistakes. Imo

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, for all we know he was following that case closely, since it seems as if he was planning Kelsey's murder for quite some time.
I guess I will have to give PF a little credit, since he doesn't appear to be quite as clueless as CW was, although some may disagree. He may have learned from his mistakes. Imo

If he was copying CW, he made the same ridiculously stupid mistake; he forgot to move Kelsey’s car.

The scenario that he was trying to sell, as supported by KK’s statements and cell phone data, was that Kelsey took off with the intention of committing suicide.

Tough to walk to Idaho from Colorado.

The text messages and phone calls from Kelsey’s phone was a nice touch, atleast as far as the prosecution is concerned.

It’s still unfathomable to me that a grown man didn’t realize that two cell phones communicating from the same place, is damning evidence.

I could see a teenager making a mistake like this, but not someone his age.

Elaborate misdirection may be effective in some cases, but clearly put him at a huge disadvantage here.

He overthought things, which is ironic.

 

[ilovechili]

Yah a baseball bat does not fit with a runaway fiance. I wish that is what she was and that she was alive.

Nor does not packing anything and no vehicle.

This is as nonsensical as it comes re PF.

Re KK it is as Loony Tune as it comes.

These two are off the charts odd and evil.

Who else is involved before or after? I think there are possibilities.

Jmo of course.

 

[GordianKnot]

It’s still unfathomable to me that a grown man didn’t realize that two cell phones communicating from the same place, is damning evidence.

I could see a teenager making a mistake like this, but not someone his age.

Elaborate misdirection may be effective in some cases, but clearly put him at a huge disadvantage here.

He overthought things, which is ironic.

Snipped For Focus + Bolded For Emphasis:

Well, that may be a bit harsh.

Let's cut this moron some slack.

After all, chronological age is one thing.

Mental age is quite another.

We can hardly expect PF to understand cell phone technology.

He's probably still wearing a digital watch b/c analog is simply a bridge too far.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Snipped For Focus + Bolded For Emphasis:

Well, that may be a bit harsh.

Let's cut this moron some slack.

After all, chronological age is one thing.

Mental age is quite another.

We can hardly expect PF to understand cell phone technology.
He's probably still wearing a digital watch b/c analog is simply a bridge too far.

JMO.

And he was kicked in the head by a horse, which certainly didn’t make him any brighter.