CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #56 *ARREST*

[MyBelle]

She was a victim?

I don't think so. From the wiki about the case:



Police released the information that the child was a murder victim and charged Michael McCarthy, the mother's boyfriend, with Bond's death.[2] They also charged her mother with being an accessory to the crime, believing her to have assisted McCarthy with "covering up" Bella's death.[2][5] Larceny was added to Rachelle Bond's charges after she was found to have accepted nearly $1,400 of welfare income after she knew about the death of her daughter.[108][109][110] Bond also continued to receive housing benefits.[111] The pair were arraigned on September 21, 2015.[5][112] Rachelle's bail was set for $1 million;

Rachelle Bond, known as a habitual drug user, had two other children who had been removed from her custody.[4][5] She had also been arrested multiple times in the past, for other crimes, including prostitution.[35] Police commented that they had dealt with complaints that she was neglecting her daughter and had had four separate encounters with Bond.[4][5] Bella's family was interviewed after the identification was announced. Her aunt stated that she had never suspected that "Baby Doe" was Bella, and the maternal grandmother of the victim was unaware that the child was ever born.[107] The Department of Children and Families had responded to two neglect complaints regarding Bella; both cases were closed.[4][5]

I didn't follow the Bella Bond case and I doubt it will have any impact on this case, which was my point. Where on earth are you even getting that KB was "accessory to the crime." That's pretty far-fetched, imo.

 

[MyBelle]

Can anyone prove if she saw the inside of that tote?

No.

Does it matter one way or the other?

No.

Can anyone prove KK didn't see inside the tote? It's her version of events which will be on trial. It will be up to the prosecution to prove she's told the truth. I wish him luck with that considering KK lied to LE from the beginning of this case.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

The jury is going to want evidence to persuade them of PF's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If you think that will be easy, I refer you to the Skylar Richardson case.

JMO

If you are comparing a case in which there was no proof that the victim was born alive, to this one, you have to be joking.

In that one, I absolutely believe she killed her baby.

I also couldn’t find her guilty if I was a juror.

In this one, I would bet my life on his guilt. It’s not complicated, and all the evidence is right there.

It couldn’t be more clear.

 

[katydid23]

Why not go to court? He had court papers filled out. Why not file them? That's what most parents do when they are in a custody dispute. My own daughter did it.

JMO

I have a theory. He didn't go to court because the best he would have gotten was joint custody.

And the worst was the possibility that KB gets courts permission to move closer to her job, and send the baby to daycare instead of to his mother at the Ranch. He did not want that to happen.

He didn't want to co-parent anymore. He wanted sole custody. So the court was of no help to him.

 

[MyBelle]

I have a theory. He didn't go to court because the best he would have gotten was joint custody.

And the worst was the possibility that KB gets courts permission to move closer to her job, and send the baby to daycare instead of to his mother at the Ranch. He did not want that to happen.

He didn't want to co-parent anymore. He wanted sole custody. So the court was of no help to him.

Where are you getting this? Feel free to prove it in court.

The best any unmarried parent can hope for is joint custody and co-parenting is in the best interest of the child. It isn't "the worst possibility" that a parent is allowed to move an hour away to be closer to her job or that a child is in daycare. There is no evidence whatsoever that KB didn't intend to keep PF actively involved in her child's life. Nothing had been filed with the court prior to KB's disappearance.

JMO

 

[GordianKnot]

Can anyone prove if she saw the inside of that tote?

No.

Does it matter one way or the other?

No.

Yes, it does matter. Proof will be required at trial. Good luck!

JMO

BBM:

No. It doesn't matter.

Why would anyone think that "proof" KK saw inside the tote would in any way be necessary in order to prove PF's guilt?

That's almost funny.

Well, okay: it IS funny. Not laugh-out-loud, wet-your-pants funny.

But definitely worth a snicker.

Here's the reality:

The only thing DA May needs to prove in that courtroom is that PF murdered KB.

In point of fact, DA May doesn't even have to prove that a tote existed.

PF didn't murder KB with a tote.

JMO.

*Edited to include the rest of Massy's gorgeous quote.

 

[MassGuy]

Where are you getting this? Feel free to prove it in court.

The best any unmarried parent can hope for is joint custody and co-parenting is in the best interest of the child. It isn't "the worst possibility" that a parent is allowed to move an hour away to be closer to her job or that a child is in daycare. There is no evidence whatsoever that KB didn't intend to keep PF actively involved in her child's life. Nothing had been filed with the court prior to KB's disappearance.

JMO

“Prove it in court?” What?

She said it was a theory, and it is based on evidence.

Abuse accusations-no luck.

Baseball bat to the face-full custody.

Not exactly a hard puzzle to put together.

 

[katydid23]

I didn't follow the Bella Bond case and I doubt it will have any impact on this case, which was my point. Where on earth are you even getting that KB was "accessory to the crime." That's pretty far-fetched, imo.

I don't remember saying that KB was an accessory to the crime.

 

[MyBelle]

If you are comparing a case in which there was no proof that the victim was born alive, to this one, you have to be joking.

In that one, I absolutely believe she killed her baby.

I also couldn’t find her guilty if I was a juror.

In this one, I would bet my life on his guilt. It’s not complicated, and all the evidence is right there.

It couldn’t be more clear.

Seriously? In a case where there was absolutely no evidence a baby was born alive, you still believe the baby was born alive? More clear according to who? The jury did speak out after the verdict.

There is no evidence whatsoever that KB is dead. No body, no cause of death, manner of death or even date of death, just the story of an obsessed woman who claims the baby's father is the love of her life.

The prosecution insisted Skylar Richardson's baby was born alive. And while you might believe she killed the baby, the jury decided she did not kill the baby AND commented that they felt the prosecution over-charged the case. I agree with them.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

I don't remember saying that KB was an accessory to the crime.

Probably because you didn’t say that.

I’m at a loss at this point.

 

[MyBelle]

I don't remember saying that KB was an accessory to the crime.

You compared it to the Bond case where the mother was an accessory to the crime.

 

[GordianKnot]

That incident underscores the fact PF wanted the baby and bonded with her.
JMO

Snipped and bolded for focus:

No. It doesn't.

What that incident underscores is the fact that when PF doesn't get his way, he becomes angry and aggressive.

That volatile, explosive reaction to not getting what he wanted in the delivery room is evidence of his instability and propensity for unmodulated emotional reactions when thwarted.

That incident in no way whatsoever reflects that PF was a loving dad trying to "bond" with his baby.

PF wasn't trying to bond.

He was trying to force the doctors to do what he wanted them to do, regardless of the fact that it wasn't what the baby needed most at that time for her wellbeing.

And when PF didn't get what he wanted, he threw a tantrum.

That's called putting your own selfish wants ahead of your infant's needs.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Seriously? In a case where there was absolutely no evidence a baby was born alive, you still believe the baby was born alive? More clear according to who? The jury did speak out after the verdict.

There is no evidence whatsoever that KB is dead. No body, no cause of death, manner of death or even date of death, just the story of an obsessed woman who claims the baby's father is the love of her life.

The prosecution insisted Skylar Richardson's baby was born alive. And while you might believe she killed the baby, the jury decided she did not kill the baby AND commented that they felt the prosecution over-charged the case. I agree with them.

JMO

“There is no evidence whatsoever that KB is dead,” is laughable. We have a two hour window, a provable lie about when he last saw Kelsey, physical evidence corroborating the account of the star witness, and damning cell phone evidence.

PF is charged with murder. Murder charges require that there be a victim, and evidence this victim is dead.

The judge himself determined there was probable cause to proceed to trial.

He made that determination based on something called “evidence.”

ETA: Where am I right now?

 

[GordianKnot]

Probably because you didn’t say that.

I’m at a loss at this point.

Ha! False.

It's not you who's completely lost the plot here.

JMO.

 

[katydid23]

Where are you getting this? Feel free to prove it in court.

The best any unmarried parent can hope for is joint custody and co-parenting is in the best interest of the child. It isn't "the worst possibility" that a parent is allowed to move an hour away to be closer to her job or that a child is in daycare. There is no evidence whatsoever that KB didn't intend to keep PF actively involved in her child's life. Nothing had been filed with the court prior to KB's disappearance.

JMO

Prove what in court?

I said it was 'my theory' about why PF didn't file paperwork for custody. Speculation, based upon facts we know.

PF was telling everyone around him that KB was abusive towards the child, and was neglectful and didn't even want to be a mother. He said she needed rehab and would run off and ignore her role as a parent, and had burned the baby before.

Why was he telling everyone these lies? It certainly wasn't because he was hoping for joint custody and co-parenting.

And I never said that KB didn't intend to keep PF actively involved in the child's life. I think she fully expected to co-parent.

However, her child was growing up and at some point she would probably want her to begin pre-school, instead of being with SF or going with her father to his farrier appointments. The child was probably getting too old to safely do that anymore. She couldn't be kept strapped in a car seat or a stroller as he did a dangerous job nearby for much longer.

It is my 'theory' that KB began speaking about her future plans for their child with PF. She MIGHT have said she hoped to get her in preschool/daycare soon, perhaps one closer to her job.

I think it worried him that he was losing control of their baby, as she was growing up, because KB had ideas about her future.

It is just a theory for a possible motive---no links, IMO, JMO, MOO

 

[k-mac]

@MassGuy no I don't think she is trolling.
there are posters who simply want the against the grain results...
every thread has em.
but you know all this!!!
now where's Barbara ring any bells!

 

[katydid23]

You compared it to the Bond case where the mother was an accessory to the crime.

YES, I compared it to the Bond case, because there were TWO defendants, involved in a murder.

And ONE of the defendants made a sweet plea deal, by testifying against the other, calling them out as a murderer. And even telling inconsistent stories, yet still being allowed to walk free for time served.

So there was no comparison where I inferred that KB was an accessory to her own murder...

 

[katydid23]

Wouldn't the person that left with her phone be KK? Not trying to be picky, but didn't she admit taking it to Idaho and sending phony messages on it? Just asking a question (in two parts).

No, the timeline does not work, for KK being the one who took KB's phone on Thanksgiving day.

KK was not at the condo when the phone was tracked leaving the premises. But PF was. And KB's phone traveled alongside PF's phone for a couple of days. Until he finally sent it on it's little road trip with KK.

 

[PommyMommy]

Well, we know of at least one friend who was concerned about her and felt that PF was verbally abusive towards her. Kelsey was also a private person and did not have a lot of friends so it wouldn't surprise me if she didn't share many details about her relationship.

An ex-girlfriend also said PF was abusive and intimidating. Or at least her mother did.

And then of course, we know about the incident at the hospital after the baby was born. I would say that's a pretty good indication of his tendency to be abusive.

Imo

BBM She (ex-girlfriend) did too. She said, "He's a monster."

 

[PommyMommy]

Just to keep the facts in order, the suggestion that KK put Ambien and Valium in KB's coffee (which she refused to do) was made by PF.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Application and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf
Frazee wanted her to put Valium and Ambien in the coffee.

Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing
12:00 p.m.
Slater: Kenney said that Frazee suggested poisoning a Caramel Macchiato from Starbucks with Ambien and other drugs to kill Kelsey Berreth, she carried some of those drugs as a nurse. Kenney said she went to the Starbucks and drove to Berreth’s townhome on Sept. 23, 2018. That’s when Kenney told Slater she gave her the coffee, which she told investigators wasn’t drugged. Slater said Kenney told him she told Berreth that she was a neighbor and she wanted to thank Berreth for finding her dogs.

Slater said Kenney told him that she didn’t drug the drink because “she didn’t want to hurt her.” Kenney said she texted Frazee afterward. Kenney told Slater that Frazee was angry. She said Frazee sent her an apology text later that day. According to Slater, Frazee told Kenney that there would be another chance.

Patrick Frazee to face trial after preliminary hearing
They discussed a plan where Kenney would lie about her identity and visit Berreth’s home to thank her for helping her find her dogs. No other details were available on this part of the investigation, but at the direction of Frazee, Kenney did so. Frazee then suggested contaminating coffee and giving it to Berreth. Kenney did purchase a coffee for Berreth and brought it to her home, possibly as a thank you. But Kenney did not contaminate the coffee, as she and Frazee had discussed.

Landfill search for Kelsey Berreth over; remains not found
Testimony from the CBI agent revealed the chain of events from Kenney's eyes. Before Nov. 22, Kenney said Frazee originally asked her to poison a drink and give it to Berreth as a way to "get rid of her." Frazee allegedly wanted Kenney to develop a "rapport" with Berreth posing as a new neighbor. Kenney went to Berreth's house and claims she introduced herself with a fake name and gave her a cup of coffee that wasn't laced with anything.

Cop testifies woman told police Colorado man beat fiancee to death with a bat
Kenney said Frazee suggested multiple ways that she could kill Berreth, including poisoning her coffee or striking her in the head with a metal rod and a baseball bat, Slater said.

https://www.coloradoan.com/story/ne...o-man-accused-killing-kelsey-berr/2914583002/
Kenney said Frazee told her he needed to get rid of Berreth because he was worried about her harming their daughter. The first time he suggested Kenney kill Berreth, Kenney said Frazee suggested she drug Berreth's coffee after picking up her favorite order from Starbucks.

Missing Colo. Mom's Fiancé Asked Nurse to Steal Drugs and Poison Coffee: 'Get Rid of Kelsey'
Colorado prosecutors allege Kelsey Berreth‘s fiancé asked his longtime friend, a nurse, to steal powerful drugs so they could poison the coffee of the missing 29-year-old mom whom authorities presume was murdered, according to multiple reports.